Pakistan and Srilanka LOI bowling is more exciting than India’s: prove me wrong.

[Adamant]

I asked @express bowlingabout pacers who can move the white ball consistently at 140-150kph, the answer he gave me consisted   Ashish Nehra as an example.

 

 

I mean that's the level of Indian fasy bowling legacy, you get Ashish Nehra as  an example of a good pacer. Seriously..... 

 

Also Sreesanth was there.. 

 

Mohd Shami was there too, he obtains minimal movement with the white ball

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

I asked @express bowlingabout pacers who can move the white ball consistently at 140-150kph, the answer he gave me consisted   Ashish Nehra as an example.

 

 

I mean that's the level of Indian fasy bowling legacy, you get Ashish Nehra as  an example of a good pacer. Seriously..... 

 

Also Sreesanth was there.. 

 

Mohd Shami was there too, he obtains minimal movement with the white ball

research project of the day

 

Sreeshanth won 2 tests against SA in SA

 

Md Shami was part of the squad that won 2 test series in Australia.

 

trivia of the day provided by adamant: other sc pacers with similar legacy

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

There is some talent but even they are not ready. 

 

I have made a thread about all these IPL sooperstar bowlers who will get exposed at International level and it's bound to happen. 

 

Only a small portion of Indian fans can recognize a true fast bowling talent, sadly you are not one of them. 

 

Guys like expressPacer, suhaan etc were hyping Avesh, do series mai Aukaat dikh gayi, both of them don't understand how to spot a genuine pacer, same gows with you. 

 

They were also hyping up Khaleel, he never was and never will be a successful bowler in international cricket. 

 

OTOH I say what I feel, there are only three young fast bowling talents in India apart from Bumrah, Siraj and they are :

 

Top level (according to Indian aukaad) 

1. KARTHIK TYAGI

 

Mid level

2. Umran

3. Prasidh

 

 

Hard to predict who would take their game to next level. Unadkat was clocking 139 kph in the under-19.  Using rkt formula he was supposed to hit 140 kph easily as he got older. He was also bowling good channel deliveries. Alas he turned into a 125 kph trundler. Then we had this box office bowling pair in 2020 in the form of Mavi/Nagarkoti same batch as Shaheen Shah Afridi. Through series of injuries and other things they became non-starters. Mavi had an okay VH season though. Next is Kartik Tyagi who has all the ingredients to be a great fast bowler. Height, run up, energy.  Bangladesh fast bowler from the same batch helped BD win their first ever test win in NZ.

 

 Development of fast bowlers is entirely in their own hands. You can't entirely blame them for not making a name for themselves. When you don't have many choices you are forced to play them like Pakistan does. With Amir playing on and off they had to bring in fresh blood. Where as guys like Tyagi are in a position where they have to leapfrog ahead of existing set of bowlers like Bumrah/Shami.  Siraj finally replaced Ishant for good. Now Siraj himself is in a spot of bother with Prasidh breathing down his neck.  And also Thakur despite looking fairly innocuous is still taking wickets everywhere. So in order to do that you have to deliver at the first opportunity you get. Even then displacing seniors is not that easy like Bishoni is finding now. He didn't do anything wrong to be kept in the reserve.

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

I mean that's the level of Indian fasy bowling legacy, you get Ashish Nehra as  an example of a good pacer. Seriously..... 

 

You are confusing things. You did not ask about an example of a good pacer.but about Indian pacers who could move the white ball at pace. 

 

I said that in 2003 and 2004, Nehra did that. ( as one of the many examples )

 

And it's a fact that he did so. 

 

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Also Sreesanth was there.. 

 

 

So you think that Sreesanth could not move the ball at pace in 2007 and 2008  ????

 

How good a bowler he was, was not something you asked. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

Mohd Shami was there too, he obtains minimal movement with the white ball

 

 

Huge movement is not needed.

 

Shami gets more consistent seam movement on any types of surfaces than most other international pacers. ( due to his awesome seam position )

 

If you wanted a list of really good quality Indian pacers who could move the ball at pace then you should have asked that question. (  It's like you ask me my name and then laugh at me because I did not tell you my name and address  )

Edited September 15, 2022 by express bowling

[maniac]

In Pakistan we hear stories like Wasim was brought in after someone saw him bowl a couple of balls in nets, Inzamam was playing tape ball or Imran Khan watched Waqar on TV and got him into the team.

 

Indian cricket is professionally run like a corporation and the much maligned word “process”.

 

If you just want to get anyone who bowls 150 in the team it doesn’t work that way in Indian cricket for the good or bad.

 

Same with Srilanka who have a small pool and pick the resources from school and club cricket. Their choices when it comes to picking talent  are pretty straight forward. 
 

only time the process was challenged was with Greg Chappell who brought mercurial players who usually would be ignored. Obviously he is considered a villain by the masses but after him it was back to “process”

[Suhaan]

20 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

You are confusing things. You did not ask about an example of a good pacer.but about Indian pacers who could move the white ball at pace. 

 

I said that in 2003 and 2004, Nehra did that. ( as one of the many examples )

 

And it's a fact that he did so. 

 

 

 

So you think that Sreesanth could not move the ball at pace in 2007 and 2008  ????

 

How good a bowler he was, was not something you adked. 

 

 

 

 

Huge movement is not needed.

 

Shami gets more consistent seam movement on any types of surfaces than most other international pacers. ( due to his awesome seam position )

 

If we wanted a list of really good quality Indian pacers who could move the ball at pace then you should have asked that question. (  It's like you ask me my name and then laugh at me because I did not tell you my name and address  )

Packy does not deserve response from you ,his aukaat doesn't make him fit to seek answers from you

[express bowling]

17 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

 

Guys like expressPacer, suhaan etc were hyping Avesh, do series mai Aukaat dikh gayi, both of them don't understand how to spot a genuine pacer, same gows with you. 

 

 

Actually it's the other way round.

 

Most regular posters on the S&P thread, including Suhaan and myself, have been saying for a long time that Avesh has major fitness issues nowadays and till the time he sorts this aspect out, he will find it difficult to pertorm regularly.

 

What many of us had said is that ... Avesh tries to hit the deck very hard and used to bowl a heavy ball. But that heaviness of his deliveries is reducing every year due to his fitness.

 

 

17 hours ago, Adamant said:

They were also hyping up Khaleel, he never was and never will be a successful bowler in international cricket. 

 

 

Khaleel has a lot going for him in white ball cricket. Sharp pace, natural steep bounce and height, swing with the new white ball, good slower ball and wicket taking ability.

 

His only issue is that he seems to lose steam from time to time and starts bowling within himself. This is the aspect that can stop his progress and if he overcomes it, he should be successful in white ball cricket. (  not red ball cricket where he has failed so far )

 

Everything is not really a black or a white.

Edited September 16, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

56 minutes ago, maniac said:

research project of the day

 

Sreeshanth won 2 tests against SA in SA

 

Md Shami was part of the squad that won 2 test series in Australia.

 

trivia of the day provided by adamant: other sc pacers with similar legacy

Troll bot or biggest padosi sympathizer that automatically makes him a troll, mods must look into this

[maniac]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Troll bot or biggest padosi sympathizer that automatically makes him a troll, mods must look into this

He is not a bot or a padosi (if he is than he got me). I think he does post rationally when needed. He is just trying to find a voice/ identity on the forum I feel.

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Packy does not deserve response from you ,his aukaat doesn't make him fit to seek answers from you

 

Bro, I think we have to point it out when someone uses what we said, out of context, and changes the meaning. 

[raki05]

Gyani @Adamant

 

As per stats Bhuvi was the best bowler of this Asia Cup.  Answer- yes/no. That will be answer to your nonsense stats based hyping. Bhuvi is the most useless white ball bowler india has ever played for such a long time who doesn't have anything to showcase. Prove it otherwise.

[Adamant]

37 minutes ago, maniac said:

He is just trying to find a voice/ identity on the forum I feel.

I already have one. 

 

Just bcoz I know that India has one of the worst fast bowling legacy and I say it out loud does not make me a padosi or Bot. 

 

If you go and visit other forums (not talking about pp) you will find the same opinion, you've got to call out what's wrong. 

 

Who are the top 3 Indian pacers ever :

 

Bumrah

Kapil Dev

Who? Shami maybe

 

Now compare this with top fast bowlers of other nations, if you are unbiased you will find that what I say is the absolutel truth. 

[vvvslaxman]

44 minutes ago, maniac said:

In Pakistan we hear stories like Wasim was brought in after someone saw him bowl a couple of balls in nets, Inzamam was playing tape ball or Imran Khan watched Waqar on TV and got him into the team.

 

Indian cricket is professionally run like a corporation and the much maligned word “process”.

 

If you just want to get anyone who bowls 150 in the team it doesn’t work that way in Indian cricket for the good or bad.

 

Same with Srilanka who have a small pool and pick the resources from school and club cricket. Their choices when it comes to picking talent  are pretty straight forward. 
 

only time the process was challenged was with Greg Chappell who brought mercurial players who usually would be ignored. Obviously he is considered a villain by the masses but after him it was back to “process”

 

NKP salve challenger Trophy,  under-19 world cup were primarily used for selecting ODI squad. I still can't believe Pujara opened with Rohit for our under-19 world cup lol After IPL things have changed. Everything hinges on IPL. Even Test selection. Nobody would have picked Bumrah for tests but for IPL. Same with Ashwin another IPL product who hardly did anything in domestic first class at the time of selection. Jadeja the 'rockstar' later slid into test side from T20 side.  Most recently when we were hit by several injuries in Australia  we had to draft in 3 T20 players (Thakur, Natrajan , Sundar) to play Gabba test. This would have never happened in any era. Sundar had not played first class for 4 years when he made Test debut. Umran in one season became a crorepathi due to his clock speed.  IPL is your entry point. On a positive note you can pick players from the street to play IPL.  Bumrah is indeed a  result of talent search programme by JOhn Wright for MI. 

 

 

 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Waqar was playing in their domestic and had lots of success before being picked,he wasn't totally picked out of nowhere.

that’s what I believe Imran Khan claims and most of his fans believe that.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

that’s what I believe Imran Khan claims and most of his fans believe that.

Wasim Akram was such a product so i heard.

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

NKP salve challenger Trophy,  under-19 world cup were primarily used for selecting ODI squad. I still can't believe Pujara opened with Rohit for our under-19 world cup lol After IPL things have changed. Everything hinges on IPL. Even Test selection. Nobody would have picked Bumrah for tests but for IPL. Same with Ashwin another IPL product who hardly did anything in domestic first class at the time of selection. Jadeja the 'rockstar' later slid into test side from T20 side.  Most recently when we were hit by several injuries in Australia  we had to draft in 3 T20 players (Thakur, Natrajan , Sundar) to play Gabba test. This would have never happened in any era. Sundar had not played first class for 4 years when he made Test debut. Umran in one season became a crorepathi due to his clock speed.  IPL is your entry point. On a positive note you can pick players from the street to play IPL.  Bumrah is indeed a  result of talent search programme by JOhn Wright for MI. 

 

 

 

Main thing is identifying right talent and giving them opportunity. It should not be solely based on stats, now everyone can't shine like Bumrah did after his selection, and  he retained his position after ipl exploits and became an ace bowlers. With young fast bowler you don't have to rot them in domestic to perform before bringing in international. You can always bring in young fast bowler in t20 international. What Indian selectors does is even from ipl they look for stats and economy rather than flamboyance and pace , a bowler who can change the course if the match with his threatening bowling. I mean inspite of Umran's scintillating performance in ipl they backed trundler Avesh.I have seen many interview of selectors and Dravid where they were emphasizing line and length is important than pace, I mean what is this sterotyping that slow trundlers will be line and length bowler and faster ones will be not.. Dravid was reluctant to give chance to Umran after Steyn, Brett lee demanded him to be in wc squad post ipl and it reflected with Avesh backing. Now Avesh has been discarded soon before wt20 as he never had potential. Who knows of they would have backed Umran he might have performed and would be able to improve himself. I mean after Ipl lot of people here were rooting for Umran, Mohsin(though I don't have full confidence in him as of yet) and Arshdeep as find of ipl and rightly so. But TM choose Avesh over Umran and Mohshin this is where we lag they go based on seniority, stats , economy but even there Umran one ipl performance trumps Avesh entire ipl performance. Hence it is important you identify right potential and back then rather being completely stats driven and bigoted that only trundlers can bowl with line and length. In Dravid i have zero trust.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, raki05 said:

Main thing is identifying right talent and giving them opportunity. It should not be solely based on stats, now everyone can't shine like Bumrah did after his selection, and  he retained his position after ipl exploits and became an ace bowlers. With young fast bowler you don't have to rot them in domestic to perform before bringing in international. You can always bring in young fast bowler in t20 international. What Indian selectors does is even from ipl they look for stats and economy rather than flamboyance and pace , a bowler who can change the course if the match with his threatening bowling. I mean inspite of Umran's scintillating performance in ipl they backed trundler Avesh.I have seen many interview of selectors and Dravid where they were emphasizing line and length is important than pace, I mean what is this sterotyping that slow trundlers will be line and length bowler and faster ones will be not.. Dravid was reluctant to give chance to Umran after Steyn, Brett lee demanded him to be in wc squad post ipl and it reflected with Avesh backing. Now Avesh has been discarded soon before wt20 as he never had potential. Who knows of they would have backed Umran he might have performed and would be able to improve himself. I mean after Ipl lot of people here were rooting for Umran, Mohsin(though I don't have full confidence in him as of yet) and Arshdeep as find of ipl and rightly so. But TM choose Avesh over Umran and Mohshin this is where we lag they go based on seniority, stats , economy but even there Umran one ipl performance trumps Avesh entire ipl performance. Hence it is important you identify right potential and back then rather being completely stats driven and bigoted that only trundlers can bowl with line and length. In Dravid i have zero trust.

 

 

Umran's rejection i would understand as he for some bizarre reason dropped his pace against Ireland and had poor returns. But Avesh's election is bizarre selection. Both Avesh and Moshin played for the same franchise. Moshin comfortably outbowled every one  including Avesh/Chameera etc.  India had ample matches to test him.  Now the ship has sailed. We have to wait now.  Another left handed seamer. So even going by IPL stats Moshin was comfortably better.

[express bowling]

26 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

 

Just bcoz I know that India has one of the worst fast bowling legacy 

 

 

Everyone knows it ... and it's a fact. Who is disputing it  ??

 

India had no pace attack to speak of till 2015. 

 

We had a good pace attack in tests from 2016 and a really good pace attack from 2018 to 2021.

 

That is what people claim and nothing more.

 

P.S -- The fact that we had poor pace attacks till 2015 was not due to lack of talent but due to   (a)  Minimal intention to get good quick bowlers  (b)  Lack of a proper system of identifying and developing good quick bowlers including maintaining their fitness. 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

51 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

We are getting quicker pacers unlike in the past ,but their quality isn't improving.There some technical as well as fitness and mental issue which needs to be sorted out, otherwise they wont be of international standards.

 

Quick pacers who have played sufficient FC cricket have done well as bowlers ... like Bumrah, Shami snd Siraj.

 

Biggest issues that pacers like Tyagi, Umran, Prasidh, Nagarkoti, Mohsin etc. are facing is that they have got to play very little FC cricket.

 

They don't have well developed stock balls as a result and don't know what to do when they get hit.

[Adamant]

56 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

We are getting quicker pacers unlike in the past ,but their quality isn't improving.There some technical as well as fitness and mental issue which needs to be sorted out, otherwise they wont be of international standards.Also their fielding, catching and batting has to improve.I would also like to see pacers captaining domestic teams.

This is basically what I wanted to say. 

 

I am just a bit more into theatricals. 

 

All that Jazz! 

 

Thats how you create an Impact.