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3 hours ago, beetle said:

I hope the Indian govt comes out in support of the women of Iran who want the choice to not wear hijab...the symbol of oppressive denial of basic freedom.

 

Go girls...burn that symbol of denial.

 

Why should GoI come out in support of the women of Iran?

Its their internal social issue. We should keep mum on the issue, and continue trying to better the lot of our own people.

And maintain friendly relations with whoever is in power in Iran. Islamic regime or otherwise.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

as a %age far fewer Indian Muslim women wear the hijab than their Iranian counterparts.

That's not saying much though.  And btw, if we want to talk about sliced stats - the percentage "growth" in muslim women wearing the hijab in India would be orders of magnitude greater than Iran.  Both these stats don't really convey the complexity, but the point stands....

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2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Learn what?

 

Don't know about the rest of the subcontinent, but as a %age far fewer Indian Muslim women wear the hijab than their Iranian counterparts.

I mean learn to be vocal against bad practices like Iranians in this instance...

At the time of my last post i had  come across following video of Hyderabad Pakistan. into 20 secs, i closed the vid. Many women wearing full black burqa, in my opinion it is regressive, sign of repression, mental slavery.. ofcourse everyone has freedom to wear it but it looks bad to my eye.. It is there in India also, but somewhat less than Pakistan and One reason may be the influence of majority population on popular culture, dressing etc.

 

 

Edited by randomGuy
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8 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I think it has less to do with not wanting the hijab itself, and more to do with religious coercion that one *must* wear it.  If a Muslim woman wants to wear a Hijab - for whatever reason - that is her choice and it is not anyone's place to question it.  If a Muslim woman does not want to wear a Hijab - for whatever reason - that is her choice and it is not anyone's place to question it.   


I understand that part but how is not wearing hijab in a college or university against one’s beliefs. Also either you believe in religion or science. Can’t have both. 

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2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

I mean learn to be vocal against bad practices like Iranians in this instance...

At the time of my last post i had  come across following video of Hyderabad Pakistan. into 20 secs, i closed the vid. Many women wearing full black burqa, in my opinion it is regressive, sign of repression, mental slavery.. ofcourse everyone has freedom to wear it but it looks bad to my eye.. It is there in India also, but somewhat less than Pakistan and One reason may be the influence of majority population on popular culture, dressing etc.

 

 

 

The difference is that, unlike Iran, the government is not coercing them to wear a particular type of clothing.   

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2 minutes ago, gattaca said:

how is not wearing hijab in a college or university against one’s beliefs.

Am not sure I understand the question.  Is it in reference to Iranian women or Indian? 

 

3 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Also either you believe in religion or science. Can’t have both. 

Well, that's why I am an atheist.  I cannot square the presence of an intelligent being with my understanding of the natural world.  And anything metaphysical, supernatural or mystical is unintelligible to me. 

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10 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Am not sure I understand the question.  Is it in reference to Iranian women or Indian? 

 

Well, that's why I am an atheist.  I cannot square the presence of an intelligent being with my understanding of the natural world.  And anything metaphysical, supernatural or mystical is unintelligible to me. 

 
It was in reference to Indian woman wanting to wear it in university and college.

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9 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Indian woman wanting to wear it in university and college.

To me, the reason is unimportant.  If a woman wants to wear a hijab, to a college, she should be allowed to do so - sort of like a Sikh man must be allowed to wear a turban. What constitutes belief or not is not our place to enforce- it is for each individual to decide based on whichever faith leaders they follow. 

 

Tangentially, this is exactly the problem with religion and why mixing religion and government is a bad idea. 

 

To quote Dr. Radhakrishnan:

If we ask religious leaders on what their claim to be believed is based, we receive three answers – They deserved to be believed, firstly,  because our primal ancestors believed them; secondly, because we possess proofs which have been handed down from this period of antiquity; and thirdly, because it is forbidden to raise the question of their authenticity at all.

 

In other words, if there is a religious leader you or your family follows (e.g., the Priest in your church, a Swamiji, the Imam (?) in a mosque who interprets the scriptures and makes these rules, you believe them enough to follow whatever they say. 

 

In the case of wearing a hijab, if you willingly believe and want to wear it, so be it.  It doesn't really hurt anyone else.  But, if you do not want to wear it, no religious leader should be allowed to force it upon you and "punish" you for that. 

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2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

To me, the reason is unimportant.  If a woman wants to wear a hijab, to a college, she should be allowed to do so - sort of like a Sikh man must be allowed to wear a turban. What constitutes belief or not is not our place to enforce- it is for each individual to decide based on whichever faith leaders they follow. 

 

Tangentially, this is exactly the problem with religion and why mixing religion and government is a bad idea. 

 

To quote Dr. Radhakrishnan:

If we ask religious leaders on what their claim to be believed is based, we receive three answers – They deserved to be believed, firstly,  because our primal ancestors believed them; secondly, because we possess proofs which have been handed down from this period of antiquity; and thirdly, because it is forbidden to raise the question of their authenticity at all.

 

In other words, if there is a religious leader you or your family follows (e.g., the Priest in your church, a Swamiji, the Imam (?) in a mosque who interprets the scriptures and makes these rules, you believe them enough to follow whatever they say. 

 

In the case of wearing a hijab, if you willingly believe and want to wear it, so be it.  It doesn't really hurt anyone else.  But, if you do not want to wear it, no religious leader should be allowed to force it upon you and "punish" you for that. 

They were wearing hijab all the way in the university to the class and were just removing it in class and putting it back after the class is over.. They protested that . Is it that essential part of their religion? Nobody in India is forcing them to not wear the head dress.  They were just showing their street veto power. Don’t argue the two issues in the same thread. There is no restrictions in India except in class and also only in dome schools . This is akin to Musalaman khatre mein hain for CAA which it never did. 

Edited by coffee_rules
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5 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

The difference is that, unlike Iran, the government is not coercing them to wear a particular type of clothing.   

Yes, they didn't even protest to this level in triple talaq, halala, multiple wives only for males and many other things ..they should learn from these protesting Iranis, my respect to the Iranis. Not just South Asian muslims, Saudi and other Arab nations should also learn.

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1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

Yes, they didn't even protest to this level in triple talaq, halala, multiple wives only for males and many other things ..they should learn from these protesting Iranis, my respect to the Iranis. Not just South Asian muslims, Saudi and other Arab nations should also learn.

You haven't the foggiest.

 

Who do you think filed, paid for and litigated in the case?

 

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9 hours ago, sandeep said:

That's not saying much though.  And btw, if we want to talk about sliced stats - the percentage "growth" in muslim women wearing the hijab in India would be orders of magnitude greater than Iran.  Both these stats don't really convey the complexity, but the point stands....

Fair.

 

What I was trying to get at is: (and this is anecdotal/observation based) that there are many households where the mothers would don the burqa, or a hijab. And the daughters wouldn't.

Don't see households where the movement is towards a hijab/niqab as we move ahead generations.

 

Also, what I don't understand is why a thread about social developments in Iran also a vehicle for taking potshots at Indian Muslim women. There is nothing that we share, socially speaking. It is extremely condescending. Its always the Indian Muslim women who have to "learn". They don't "stand up to oppressors" yadda yadda.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

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7 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

The difference is that, unlike Iran, the government is not coercing them to wear a particular type of clothing.   

Social coercion is far more difficult to overcome. Govt coercion can stop with change of govt...but social coercion ...like it happens in the subcontinent takes ages. Social coercion back by religion, tradition is draconian. 

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