Biggest myth in Indian cricket

[BlueBlood]

LOL hate Dhoni all you want but every single so called match winner on our team today was persisted by Dhoni umpteen times even after several failures.

 

Rohit, Kohli, Rahul, Pandya, Bumrah, BK, Ishant, Shami, Jadeja, Chahar, Ashwin etc.

 

I mean 80% of our team except for Pant, Axar, Harshal and Arshdeep are left overs from Dhoni Era.

 

If Dhoni was chopping and changing in captaincy like Kohli and Rohit, even Rohit and Kohli would be nowhere in the team.

 

Remember that Rohit started as a middle order batsman and promoted to Open. If Pant is given so many chances as Rohit to Open he would have been a Gilchrist by now but that never happens in our current setup.

 

The only issue Dhoni had was he didn't have a prime Bumrah, Siraj and Zaheer playing at the same time. If Dhoni had these 3 guys or at least Bumrah and Zaheer in the pace attack before 2014, we would have won a lot of tournaments.

 

Instead he was stuck with Praveen Kumar, Vinay Kumar etc. Who were domestic bullies but failed in international level.

 

This is why he trusted RP Singh, Raina and Yusuf Pathan as once Yuvraj, Gambhir and Zaheer were gone/out of form, Dhoni never trusted our bowling or batting again and could never find a replacement to these guys.

 

You will see a clear decline in Dhoni's captaincy once Zaheer, Gambir and Yuvraj were not performing. He relied heavily on these guys and got saved to an extent with prime Kohli.

 

I still think he had a great eye for talent but post 2014-2015 was clueless on strategy as he didn't have clutch performers like Yuvraj, Gambhir and Zaheer to bail him out.

 

Even today's setup is the same, we need SKY or Pandya to play a blinder to win games. But never win clutch games even when Kohli, KL etc. Score hundreds because you need Yuvraj/Tim David level 200+ strike rate performances under immense pressure to win T20.

[Vk1]

20 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

LOL hate Dhoni all you want but every single so called match winner on our team today was persisted by Dhoni umpteen times even after several failures.

 

Rohit, Kohli, Rahul, Pandya, Bumrah, BK, Ishant, Shami, Jadeja, Chahar, Ashwin etc.

 

I mean 80% of our team except for Pant, Axar, Harshal and Arshdeep are left overs from Dhoni Era.

 

If Dhoni was chopping and changing in captaincy like Kohli and Rohit, even Rohit and Kohli would be nowhere in the team.

 

Remember that Rohit started as a middle order batsman and promoted to Open. If Pant is given so many chances as Rohit to Open he would have been a Gilchrist by now but that never happens in our current setup.

 

The only issue Dhoni had was he didn't have a prime Bumrah, Siraj and Zaheer playing at the same time. If Dhoni had these 3 guys or at least Bumrah and Zaheer in the pace attack before 2014, we would have won a lot of tournaments.

 

Instead he was stuck with Praveen Kumar, Vinay Kumar etc. Who were domestic bullies but failed in international level.

 

This is why he trusted RP Singh, Raina and Yusuf Pathan as once Yuvraj, Gambhir and Zaheer were gone/out of form, Dhoni never trusted our bowling or batting again and could never find a replacement to these guys.

 

You will see a clear decline in Dhoni's captaincy once Zaheer, Gambir and Yuvraj were not performing. He relied heavily on these guys and got saved to an extent with prime Kohli.

 

I still think he had a great eye for talent but post 2014-2015 was clueless on strategy as he didn't have clutch performers like Yuvraj, Gambhir and Zaheer to bail him out.

 

Even today's setup is the same, we need SKY or Pandya to play a blinder to win games. But never win clutch games even when Kohli, KL etc. Score hundreds because you need Yuvraj/Tim David level 200+ strike rate performances under immense pressure to win T20.

I am not sure if we can give too much credit to Dhoni for Rohit.. Rohit debuted in 2007 and got chance to open consistently only in 2013.. still the thread is more about Dhoni getting chance to captain in 6 t20 world cups and won only once.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Vk1

[BlueBlood]

8 hours ago, Vk1 said:

I am not sure if we can give too much credit to Dhoni for Rohit.. Rohit debuted in 2007 and got chance to open consistently only in 2013.. still the thread is more about Dhoni getting chance to captain in 6 t20 world cups and won only once.

 

The point is, his faith in Jadeja, Kohli, Rohit, Rahul, Bumrah and Ashwin against immense pressure to drop them early on meant there was a good platform for them to shine later on.

 

This is like Rohit having immense faith in current Hooda, Gill or Samson and giving them 50+ matches and even changing their position in the batting order or dropping seniors to ensure his talent is utilized.

 

Never happens in our current setup. All these hold overs from Dhoni Era are still playing even to this day when our country produces thousands of high caliber players in domestic + IPL every year.

 

That means Dhoni had an eye for talent and his "process" of persisting with players he believed had talent even after many failures had merit.

 

Today, Pant is dropped after only a couple of failures. Hooda dropped when he is supposed to be an opener and forced to play middle order to make way for out of form Rahul.

 

We dropped Umran Malik just because of one bad tournament and brought back Umesh in his place. 

 

This is what I mean by captaincy of Dhoni. If 80% of the current setup and 100% of our match winners were guys Dhoni had picked and persisted with when there are thousands of choices, you cannot tarnish his captaincy legacy.

 

That effectively means the "process" and strategy that Dhoni brought to the table is still being used by Kohli and Rohit as captains in LOI's.

 

In today's test side if you remove Bumrah, Shami and Siraj we are never going to win games. Other than Siraj both Bumrah, Shami and Ishant were persisted by Dhoni even when selectors kept picking Vinay Kumar level trundlers for years.

 

People keep harping Ganguly's captaincy but that rosy glasses. The results speak for themselves in clutch tournaments like WC and Champions trophies.

 

 

[BlueBlood]

9 hours ago, Vk1 said:

I am not sure if we can give too much credit to Dhoni for Rohit.. Rohit debuted in 2007 and got chance to open consistently only in 2013.. still the thread is more about Dhoni getting chance to captain in 6 t20 world cups and won only once.

I have to laugh at you Rohit fans who have such selective memory.

 

Rohit was an utter failure in tests a la Yuvraj. He was also failing to convert starts in the middle order.

 

Rohit had strike rate issues in middle order and there were much better guys like Yusuf Pathan, Raina etc. In middle order. He could have easily been dropped as they were better.

 

Yet he was persisted, given bowling and even asked to Open the innings. These many chances if Hooda, Gill and Pant were given, they would all be in the team today.

 

Rohit, Kohli and Dravid want a ready made team with experience but don't want to give credit to the guy who persisted with these players for years.

 

I was in this forum when Jadeja was mocked for being malnourished and losing us matches. I was here when Kohli was called a brat with no future. I was also here when Rohit was called "No Hit, Maggie" etc.

 

Yet Dhoni persisted with them and today's team benefits immensely due to that. 

[putrevus]

16 hours ago, sandeep said:

Ganguly was much better than Dhoni in terms of developing players.  Virat, the absolute worst I have seen.

How was Ganguly better, There was no fast bowler who coul;d sustain under him.Bhajji was mostly one series wonder.Guys like Sehwag would have come thru under any captain. It was more self preservation than great captaincy when he made Sehwag opener.

He also made Parthiv Patel into opener so he could squeeze in to playing XI.

 

How was Kohli the worst?

[cricketfan28]

Dhoniconda era, one of the greatest in Indian cricket history.

[SRT100]

Biggest Myth in Indian Cricket?

 

Boobi's produce milk.

 

They just leak runs.

[Stan AF]

Ahh, finally a good thread instead of the ass-kissing topics by the usual suspects that are done to death in this forum.

 

OP, Forget about leading in 6 T20 WCs. Dhoni failed to qualify for the knockouts in three editions(2009,10 & 12) consecutively. An unwanted & a nasty hatrick that flies under the radar every single time when his captaicy virtues are discussed. Ideally anybody in world cricket would have been stripped off his captaincy badge by that time. But he had spot fixing seeni mama his godfather so nothing happened.

 

If not for Kohli who was in red hot form from 2013-18 we wouldn't have qualified for 2014 and 16 knockouts as well. His player selections were awful to say the least persisting with the likes of ashwin and jadeja(in short his csk pals) effectively ruined indian t20 for a good time.

[Rightarmfast]

Best thread on ICF after a long time. Till the time I was active on ICF, I kept making this point about Dhoni. But people werent as open then. 

[AuxiliA]

56 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Forget about leading in 6 T20 WCs. Dhoni failed to qualify for the knockouts in three editions(2009,10 & 12) consecutively. An unwanted & a nasty hatrick that flies under the radar every single time when his captaicy virtues are discussed. Ideally anybody in world cricket would have been stripped off his captaincy badge by that time. 

 

Tim Henman (popular British tennis player who famously didn't win a slam) was asked if he would trade his years & years of consistency and high rankings for a single (fluke) Grandslam.

 

His reply: "In a heartbeat!".

 

Dhoni will always be held in high regard for his triple trophies. I will gladly take the 2007-13 era of Indian cricket over any other era.. 

[Vk1]

3 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Tim Henman (popular British tennis player who famously didn't win a slam) was asked if he would trade his years & years of consistency and high rankings for a single (fluke) Grandslam.

 

His reply: "In a heartbeat!".

 

Dhoni will always be held in high regard for his triple trophies. I will gladly take the 2007-13 era of Indian cricket over any other era.. 

 

that's the point of this thread right.. Dhoni should have won more for the chances he got.. 

[AuxiliA]

23 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

 

that's the point of this thread right.. Dhoni should have won more for the chances he got.. 

 

Dhoni only got 'that many' chances because he won his first ever tournament as captain. Won his first WC as a captain and player. 

Had Kohli won CT 17 F, he would still be captain now. 

 

In terms of win% at ICC events he might only be behind Ponting or Llyod. Far ahead of any other Indian captain. 

 

And how many trophies have India won before and after Dhoni? 

 

As they say... Jo jeeta wahi Sikandar. 

 

[SRT100]

Biggest Myth, which I hope I am wrong.

 

That Kohli will get out of his current batting slump for years and be consistent for India in the WC.

[zen]

Dhoni is known to win the T20 World Cup at a time when Indian cricket team was not considered as the best or the #1 ranked team. 2007 ODI WC, Ind did not even make it to the Super 8 (kicked out by BD). 

Even in 2011 WC, ppl thought Ind wasn’t going to win it after games against SA & Eng. In the final, Ind lost the toss (when setting up a big score was a trend) and he led from the front in the final. 

There are a lot of positives from Dhoni’s tenure, including captaining Ind in 2 of Ind’s 3 LOI titles. 

Also Yuvi, etc. played at a time when ODI scores were under 300 (330 was considered huge) and 150-160 a good score in T20s. Post 2015, the game dynamics changed where Ind could not compete with the relative old way of playing cricket. 
 

Captaincy has a shelf life, Dhoni over extended his tenure. Though still a competitive captain on turning pitches / India centric conditions where a game has relatively limited options that he had mastered (IPL for example where he even led a Dad’s Army to title). 

 

The recent and current captains inherited a relatively strong team, and have failed to make an impression (even from a big picture strategy, on field tactics, team selection, etc., perspective).
 

In fact, Rohit is making a strong team appear mediocre. MI 0-8, Asia Cup (just one win against a strong team), and now the upcoming WC is on the line. If Ind fails in T20WC22, it would be 3 failures in a row in the same year (let alone an extended period where multiple factors come into play) with relatively strong teams! 

Edited September 29, 2022 by zen

[Jattputt]

I like dhoni the batsman, but I think he is an overrated captain, just because he does not show emotion. His ipl captain successes have been helped by spin friendly Chennai wickets. There is that dodgy match fixing ipl scandal that was put under the carpet. What I do not understand is why he is rated so high?

[Serpico]

He's great by ICT standards. It's not that hard to understand

[Ankit_sharma03]

Many many such myths like

 

1.  Chappel destroyed irfan career 

2. That india wud have won 2002 CT if it hadnt rained. 

3. Ganguly build the team and gave it on platter to dhoni . 

4. Pujara wud have succeeded in 90s or 2000s ODI 

5. Dhoni was a good t20 player 

6. Jadeja is a good t20 player 

7. Shami is a good t20 bowler 

8. We wud have won 2015 wc if we had gambhir or yuvraj. 

9. Ganguly was victim in chappel-ganguly saga 

10. Chappel period pushed indian cricket back 

11. Dravid was a bad captain 

12. India wud have won 2003 wc final if kumble played. 

13. Ishant sharma revival happened becoz of kohli  

14. Amit mishra career didnt go ahead due to politics or dhoni 

15. Jadeja is bits n pieces in odi 

16. Sehwag , ganbhir ,yuvi , bhajji , ganguly, dravid were unfairely dropped by dhoni 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Among indian fans n ex cricketer some absolute nonsense ones are 

 

1.  Chappel destroyed irfan career 

2. That india wud have won 2002 CT if it hadnt rained. 

3. Ganguly build the team and gave it on platter to dhoni . 

4. Pujara wud have succeeded in 90s or 2000s ODI 

5. Dhoni was a good t20 player 

6. Jadeja is a good t20 player 

7. Shami is a good t20 bowler 

8. We wud have won 2015 wc if we had gambhir or yuvraj. 

9. Ganguly was victim in chappel-ganguly saga 

10. Chappel period pushed indian cricket back 

11. Dravid was a bad captain 

12. India wud have won 2003 wc final if kumble played. 

13. Ishant sharma revival happened becoz of kohli  

14. Amit mishra career didnt go ahead due to politics or dhoni 

 

 

 

 

And add to it ..

Dravid could get in to ODIs only because he started to keep wickets. Even boomer @sandeep believes so

[BlueBlood]

36 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Many many such myths like

 

1.  Chappel destroyed irfan career 

2. That india wud have won 2002 CT if it hadnt rained. 

3. Ganguly build the team and gave it on platter to dhoni . 

4. Pujara wud have succeeded in 90s or 2000s ODI 

5. Dhoni was a good t20 player 

6. Jadeja is a good t20 player 

7. Shami is a good t20 bowler 

8. We wud have won 2015 wc if we had gambhir or yuvraj. 

9. Ganguly was victim in chappel-ganguly saga 

10. Chappel period pushed indian cricket back 

11. Dravid was a bad captain 

12. India wud have won 2003 wc final if kumble played. 

13. Ishant sharma revival happened becoz of kohli  

14. Amit mishra career didnt go ahead due to politics or dhoni 

15. Jadeja is bits n pieces in odi 

16. Sehwag , ganbhir ,yuvi , bhajji , ganguly, dravid were unfairely dropped by dhoni 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should add that Rohit Sharma and Jadeja would have on their own merit been selected in the team without Dhoni help.

 

These two were persisted for so many ODI's until they finally made it.

 

The sad thing is this board is fickle and forget their own past.

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

And add to it ..

Dravid could get in to ODIs only because he started to keep wickets. Even boomer @sandeep believes so

dravid started keeping under ganguly in 2002 but he had a great 1999 Wc where he wasnt keeping, his keeping gave balance 

post 1999-2000 his peak started as batsman so i dont think he cud have been dropped . Also their werent enough options those days , if anything 2000 match fixing took out players so experienced players like dravid were needed more.

Also dravid strike rotation was very good and he cud bat at many positons