Lone Wolf Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 (edited) Who*s keep coming Edited October 8, 2022 by Lone Wolf mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 Does the US care about its relationship with India? Probably not. Why should India care so much? India is an rising economic power and the relationship with every other nation should strictly be case-by-case transactional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 59 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Does the US care about its relationship with India? Probably not. Why should India care so much? India is an rising economic power and the relationship with every other nation should strictly be case-by-case transactional. That sustainment F-16 deal to Pakistan is a big deal in strategic defense for India. It is a BFD for our army in Kashmir Lone Wolf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 2 hours ago, MultiB48 said: USA is a super power and you can never be friends with such a powerful country,they will throw their tantrums and there ain't much we can do about it, but Pak will always be our enemy and more powerful India becomes more important Pak becomes for the likes of USA,eu and china .Pak will always be a proxy for them to pin us down, it's too easy to pass. Yep.. Age old US strategy. They will try their best to make sure India never reigns supreme in South Asia & starts dominating in IOR & beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 “To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.” — Henry Kissinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Also Kissinger America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 What Russia Ukraine war told US was that making India one of its puppet states like SoKo, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines is futile exercise & its time for Hard ball. Pakistan was already in play in the meantime... Imraaand got his a*** handed to him by Bajwa & everything since then is on America's behalf. India has limited options with this strategy... So far we have kept our cards closed. Post Ukraine war lot of things could change. I have seen China softening up to India recently... They probably also are curious what's next for them. BRI is more or less botched. And they have done well to avoid Taiwan misadventure... And a border war with India which would have made US's job rather too easy. We might go ahead with purchase of naval F-18 jets for our carrier but can't complain that Trust level is down in the dumps. MEA & our think tank have got their work cut out. Not choosing sides has its own disadvantages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Honestly India has no options. Foreign policies are generally zero sum games especially when you don’t have leverage. It takes years to develop leverage. If US wants to risk alienating India, they can. If US wants to put more eggs in Pakistan basket they can. These are short term measures which don’t align with long term goal. Long term goal now is to contain China. In PPP terms already biggest economy and will be in biggest in nominal terms in couple of years. World has not dealt with an authoritarian success story like this one. Integrating closely with US also means greater interference in domestic politics. India has the demography. India has the market. No need to grovel. Having seen how EU has completely lost its mojo, India has opportunity to hold its own and offer the third pillar in next seven years. BacktoCricaddict 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 America blew off the Nord stream to sell gas to Europe at 4 times the price. This is vassal state to super power equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 17 hours ago, coffee_rules said: That sustainment F-16 deal to Pakistan is a big deal in strategic defense for India. It is a BFD for our army in Kashmir True. The real solution for India lies not in deterring the US from supplying Pak with F-16s, but in manufacturing indigenously developed, state-of-the-art AA systems and fighter jets to counter anything that Pak throws and equipping the military with the best possible resources. The know-how is there, the science technology experts are definitely there, the manufacturing capability can be there. Is the will there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, ravishingravi said: America blew off the Nord stream to sell gas to Europe at 4 times the price. This is vassal state to super power equation. And who told us this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, ravishingravi said: Honestly India has no options. Foreign policies are generally zero sum games especially when you don’t have leverage. It takes years to develop leverage. If US wants to risk alienating India, they can. If US wants to put more eggs in Pakistan basket they can. These are short term measures which don’t align with long term goal. Long term goal now is to contain China. In PPP terms already biggest economy and will be in biggest in nominal terms in couple of years. World has not dealt with an authoritarian success story like this one. Integrating closely with US also means greater interference in domestic politics. India has the demography. India has the market. No need to grovel. Having seen how EU has completely lost its mojo, India has opportunity to hold its own and offer the third pillar in next seven years. And similarly, no need to grovel to Raashya or anyone else either. India is a large enough country to work out energy- and fertilizer- independence. Razor-sharp focus on economic development is all it takes. The brains are there in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: And who told us this? Joe Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, ravishingravi said: Joe Biden. :-). Nice one. And just this time, you selectively trust what he says because you already believed it. Isn't this one of the pleasures of discussing politics/war? No one knows jack-shyte and nothing can be proven or disproven experimentally, so we are free to speculate whatever. Edited October 9, 2022 by BacktoCricaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 4 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said: True. The real solution for India lies not in deterring the US from supplying Pak with F-16s, but in manufacturing indigenously developed, state-of-the-art AA systems and fighter jets to counter anything that Pak throws and equipping the military with the best possible resources. The know-how is there, the science technology experts are definitely there, the manufacturing capability can be there. Is the will there? Even a half decent MIC would effectively make India a very strong player in Asia Pacific. Atm we are rather too dependent & quite far off from enjoying high level influence. Future lies in IOR... We have to carefully manage our Navy & the problem of budget cuts wrt to Navy is annoying. That's another factor that US wants make Pak Army & air force sizeable enough to be a constant nuisance. That in the end make our Navy & subsequent power projection abilities to a certain limitation. They still haven't recoverd from Indian Navy's performance in 71. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 +1 to the economic development bit. Need to focus on certain industries and become the go to country for those. Semiconductors have to be a big part of this. Another big thing to focus on would be to decouple ourselves from the dependence on the dollar. Has hit us pretty hard this time compared to 2008. I'm guessing this stand of US should free us to use the same philosophy to get oil from Iran paying in Rs saying that we have different relations with diff countries. IMO the US is dumb to keep throwing away money at Pak when the snakes they grow in their backyards will ultimately come for them. It's almost like they haven't learned from the 90s and 00s. I'm hopeful under this MEA to take the best stand for India. Shudder to think what would happen if a coalition govt takes over. Main focus has to be to counter Chinese dominance in the market and ensure energy supplies. Easier said than done though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Even a half decent MIC would effectively make India a very strong player in Asia Pacific. Atm we are rather too dependent & quite far off from enjoying high level influence. Future lies in IOR... We have to carefully manage our Navy & the problem of budget cuts wrt to Navy is annoying. That's another factor that US wants make Pak Army & air force sizeable enough to be a constant nuisance. That in the end make our Navy & subsequent power projection abilities to a certain limitation. They still haven't recoverd from Indian Navy's performance in 71. Does Pak have the money to fund a war for more than a few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Op is right to some extent. “US deep state”is courting India but it doesn’t want to loose Pakistan a NATO ally status nation. How to keep Pakistanis happy? By giving F-16 and atleast referring word Kashmir once every year as customary else Pakistanis get very touchy.. So I am not worried on that front. However each time I see that video of Modis first trip during Biden rule , Body language of Kamala Mata in that first floor corridor looked more like A teache(Kamala) giving detentiin to Student(Modi). I think Modiji did realise that it was mistake to meet Kamala and he should do what Jaishankar ji does if needed. Biden is anti India pro China, There is no doubt about it and where ever he can overrule deep state without looking ugly in front of US population, he is doung it. Under him, every deal between India and US has been rigged(for example IPEF) and nothing bilateral has been signed. People need to wake up and see we haven’t have a US ambassador for over 2 years now and counting. Visa queue for Indians has become longer then several years. These are the real issues which Biden has created for India. In hindsight, I think falling for Huawei 5G network spy trap was mistake on Indian front. Half of India would have been on 5G at quarter of the price with most likely peace at border. Thats where US got wrong impression that they can make a Pakistan like pet dog state from India Edited October 9, 2022 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 8 hours ago, bharathh said: Does Pak have the money to fund a war for more than a few days? It's a rogue state... If US wishes it can drag it to the limit. Formidable Military & Air force for its size with a small Navy. I highly doubt missile warfare will be a thing coz of the risks. Overall more than a handy nuisance for US. Pakistan has served its purpose to the West since the beginning at least when it comes to India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Part & parcel of the relationship. Sometimes its a step forward, other times its sideways and every now & then backward. It will never be marching forward since we're not planning to be a yes man to American objectives vis a vis every region & nation. We may not agree on Russia or Pakistan but we should continue cooperation with respect to QUAD & China. We won't be able to block F-16 deliveries to Pak but we should continue with other high quality military imports such as naval aircraft & drones from US. ravishingravi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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