What is the utility of picking so many Consolidators Upfront if most of them invariably fail when the conditions favour pace / swing bowling ?

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Sachin Tendulkar

 

[Sooda]

The reality is all the talk of intent and aggression lasted only until we got the pressure of the world cup and facing world class bowlers 

[Sooda]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Why are consolidators picked in white ball cricket ?

 

1)  So that they can stop wickets from falling in favourable bowling conditions where T20 hacks won't survive.

 

2)  So that one batter can hold the innings together and allow the hitters to go berserk around him without pressure.

 

We have 3 consolidators in the top 3. Batters who usually take time to build their innings in big matches and reach high SRs only if they play past the 15th over. 

 

But we see that ...

 

1)  Barring Kohli on certain occasions ( success percentage not too high ) , they usually fail when the seam bowling is challenging upfront.

 

2)  If there are 3 consolidators batting in succession then how will the Stroke players play around them unless 2 are dismissed ?

 

Let's say we picked Shaw in place of Rahul. (  or any other high SR opener who is in form ) what will happen ?

 

Both will most likely fail in seam friendly conditions.  But Shaw etc. will definite score at a higher SR in easier batting conditions.

 

So, what is the purpose of having 3 consolidators at the top  ????

 

 

 

Rahul *should not be* a consolidator. He should be given clear instructions to smash from word go, because he can. Giving Parnell a maiden first up is unforgivable 

 

I thought that's what the new template was, but that only lasted until the pressure of a world cup hit

 

We pick Shaw and he will get bowled through the gate off an inswinger 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sooda]

The negative tone was set 3rd time in a row…KL was defending Parnell with his bat playing inside the line…that’s how he plays against Anderson and broad in a test match in England

[Chakdephatte]

29 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Rahul *should not be* a consolidator. He should be given clear instructions to smash from word go, because he can. Giving Parnell a maiden first up is unforgivable 

 

I thought that's what the new template was, but that only lasted until the pressure of a world cup hit

 

We pick Shaw and he will get bowled through the gate off an inswinger.

 

I think you should read Kumble's recent interview where he said Rahul was allowed to hit early. Hard to understand what's the problem with this guy.

[SRT100]

12 hours ago, express bowling said:

Why are consolidators picked in white ball cricket ?

 

1)  So that they can stop wickets from falling in favourable bowling conditions where T20 hacks won't survive.

 

2)  So that one batter can hold the innings together and allow the hitters to go berserk around him without pressure.

 

We have 3 consolidators in the top 3. Batters who usually take time to build their innings in big matches and reach high SRs only if they play past the 15th over. 

 

But we see that ...

 

1)  Barring Kohli on certain occasions ( success percentage not too high ) , they usually fail when the seam bowling is challenging upfront.

 

2)  If there are 3 consolidators batting in succession then how will the Stroke players play around them unless 2 are dismissed ?

 

Let's say we picked Shaw in place of Rahul. (  or any other high SR opener who is in form ) what will happen ?

 

Both will most likely fail in seam friendly conditions.  But Shaw etc. will definite score at a higher SR in easier batting conditions.

 

So, what is the purpose of having 3 consolidators in the top  ????

 

 

 

 

Beautiful post. Well done.

 

India is at a stage, where if we lose two of the three batsmen quickly, its actually a good thing for the total.

 

Absolute madness to play Hitman, KL and Kohli in the same team.

 

Im sure India will smash Banga and Zimba and the top 3 will do well.

 

I said it earlier, I thought we got very very lucky to beat Pakistan and with a bit of luck Netherlands could have pushed us.

[Pollack]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Rahul isn't that much of a senior with Kohli, Rohit, Karthick, Ashwin Bhuvi, Shami around. 

But he is senior than all the high SR batsmen options available.

[adi B]

8 overs 49/5 and 10 overs 45/4 . Was this the score we hoped for after consolidation by the top order? 

Normally if your top order consolidates, the RR is expected to be low but you'd expect wkts In hands , a 8/45/2 score is understandable but here the RR is piss poor and add to that 4/5 wkts lost ,then what is the purpose of consolidation?

It means you are not good enough and it's better if you go for your shots ,anyway you'll get out ,why not try to score quickly for a brief period ?

Also that promise of scoring quickly upfront has gone to the drains because they have understood that this is not guwahati or indore where you can score cheap runs and they don't have the form or technique now to score quick on such pitches 

[putrevus]

Why is it for some posters, it is all about players who are not selected. Why are people turning Shaw into Viv Richards. He is a very limited player who has holes all over his technique. Not selecting him  was not mistake at all.

 

It is not like India has some great batting talents sitting at home. Stop hyping medicore players.

 

 

How many matches should I pull out when so called Sachin Tendulkar laid an egg in big matches. Kohli and Rohit are the best we got ,we sink or swim with them.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by putrevus

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Why is it for some posters, it is all about players who are not selected. Why are people turning Shaw into Viv Richards. He is a very limited player who has holes all over his technique. Not selecting him  was not mistake at all.

 

It is not like India has some great batting talents sitting at home. Stop hyping medicore players.

 

 

How many matches should I pull out when so called Sachin Tendulkar laid an egg in big matches. Kohli and Rohit are the best we got ,we sink or swim with them.

 

 

 

You don't get the point as usual.

 

What is the point of having a sounder technique if it does not usually work when the conditions are challenging ?

 

Yes, Shaw will fail too in these tougher conditions and Rahul is failing too. So, what is the difference ?

 

But on flat decks, Shaw may score 55 to 60 off 30 balls while Rahul will score 40 to 45 off 30 balls. 

 

And it is not about including Shaw or any other particular player. It is about searching for a player type ... that is an opener or top order batter who is prepared to bat at a very high strike rate even if it means a lower average.  That batter could be Shaw, Daw, Kaw, Raw or anyone else. Does not matter.

Edited November 1, 2022 by express bowling

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

You don't get the point as usual.

 

What is the point of having a sounder technique if it does not usually work when the conditions are challenging ?

 

Yes, Shaw will fail too in these tougher conditions and Rahul is failing too. So, what is thd difference ?

 

But on flat decks, Shaw may score 55 to 60 off 30 balls while Rahul will score 40 to 45 off 30 balls. 

 

And it is not about including Shaw or any other particular player. It is about searching for a player type ... that is an opener or top order batter who is prepared to bat at a very high strike rate even if it means a lower average.  That batter could be Shaw, Daw, Kaw, Raw or anyone else. Does not matter.

You are not getting the point as usual and keep on posting samething over and over again. Nobody is stopping from finding next Viv richards or ABDV, they are many different platforms for players to showcase their talents. The only guy who should have any grievence with selectors is  Ravi Bishnoi.

 

Failing in handful of matches (does not matter how important those matches are )against swing or seam does not make them perennial failures.Rahul is mental midget who has come up short in pressure situations all thru his career. But they have Pant who is apt replacement in the squad already who will lend balance to the playing eleven as he is LHB.

 

Nobody is stopping the search of player with high strike rate and why are you assuming that search is not going on. As of this moment is there anyone other than Shaw there?In future if someone comes up they sure will be considered.

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are not getting the point as usual and keep on posting samething over and over again. Nobody is stopping from finding next Viv richards or ABDV, they are many different platforms for players to showcase their talents. The only guy who should have any grievence with selectors is  Ravi Bishnoi.

 

Failing in handful of matches (does not matter how important those matches are )against swing or seam does not make them perennial failures.Rahul is mental midget who has come up short in pressure situations all thru his career. But they have Pant who is apt replacement in the squad already who will lend balance to the playing eleven as he is LHB.

 

Nobody is stopping the search of player with high strike rate and why are you assuming that search is not going on. As of this moment is there anyone other than Shaw there?In future if someone comes up they sure will be considered.

 

 

I am not talking about failing in a couple of matches. Everyone will fail on occasions.  Talking about playing styles here.

 

T20 batting is all about Strike Rates. It is not about pedigree batsmanship. 

 

 In T20s, teams don't need to fill their lineup with high quality batters  They need some high SR batters who can hack and slash their way to a 60 off 30 balls. Only 1 or 2 high quality batters are enough. 

 

There is no need to search for Viv or ABDV type greats only.  (  If they come then well and good ).   A SKY or a Hardik type batter in good form is good enough in T20s and adds more value to the team than lower SR and higher average batters. 

 

Having just 1 or 2 pedigree batsmen like Kohli etc. in the team is good enough. Looks for high SR hacks after that. 

 

That is the point.

 

 

[express bowling]

In T20s, teams have to face 120 balls.

 

Teams usually have 8 batting options.

 

Assuming 4 will fail and use up 12 balls ( 2 overs )  out of the 120.

 

So, 108 balls are left for the other 4 batters.

 

This means they have to survive just 27 balls each.

 

Each batter should try to use these 27 balls to score as much as they can. 

 

That should be the target in T20s and not to play a long innings. 

 

Just 1 batter playing a longish innings at lower SR is the most a team can afford.

 

[zen]

40 balls played at a SR of 140 < 10 played at a SR of 135 as the other batsmen has played 30 more balls at a marginal increase in SR 

 

[express bowling]

Litton Das batting 56 off 24 balls as PP ends.  Strike Rate of 233.

 

Against a big Team India in a big WC match for them.

 

This is PP batting and something we totally lack.

Edited November 2, 2022 by express bowling

[putrevus]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:22 AM, express bowling said:

 

 

I am not talking about failing in a couple of matches. Everyone will fail on occasions.  Talking about playing styles here.

 

T20 batting is all about Strike Rates. It is not about pedigree batsmanship. 

 

 In T20s, teams don't need to fill their lineup with high quality batters  They need some high SR batters who can hack and slash their way to a 60 off 30 balls. Only 1 or 2 high quality batters are enough. 

 

There is no need to search for Viv or ABDV type greats only.  (  If they come then well and good ).   A SKY or a Hardik type batter in good form is good enough in T20s and adds more value to the team than lower SR and higher average batters. 

 

Having just 1 or 2 pedigree batsmen like Kohli etc. in the team is good enough. Looks for high SR hacks after that. 

 

That is the point.

 

 

Yes T20 is all about SR but do we have any such batsmen in the shed? That is the point you are not able to understand.

[putrevus]

Pointing out Litton Das SR does not solve the problem. Do we have any such batsman who has been left out. Please don't say Shaw. Every team wants an opener with SR over 200 to take advantage of PP.The only guy who could do that in my view is Pant and he is already in the team. Moronic TM is not playing him.

Edited November 2, 2022 by putrevus

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

yeah but what if they cant play 27 balls .

 

Kohli averages 25 balls/inning.

Stokes 9 balls/inning.

Litton 16 balls.

Pant 14,

buttler 17,

malan 24,

rohit 19

 

On average we all looking for 15 balls for 8 batsmen ,I dont they can do it.

 

Since my calculation includes 4 of the 8 batsmen playing 12 balls in all, that works out to 3 balls per innings for half the batting side.

 

This means a batsman has to play 27 balls in one innings and 3 balls in the next.  This means 15 balls per innings on an average.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Yes T20 is all about SR but do we have any such batsmen in the shed? That is the point you are not able to understand.

 

 

I can give you names but you will say that they are not good enough. 

 

The next T20 World Cup is 2 years later and we will get 40 to 50 preparatory T20Is before that.

 

We have to try 

 

1. Shaw

2. Pant

3. Prabhsimran

4. Samson 

5. Kishan

 

Give them 10 T20Is on the trot each and tell them the role to perform (  Target 60 off 30 balls ).  We will find out who is good enough.  

Edited November 2, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

yeah but they wont.Check the ind top 8 avg,i think its coming to 108 balls.

 

 

If the batsmen start attacking, the bowlers get a bit flustered and if almost everyone is doing this, they will probably survive 12 balls more.

 

Also, if we use one sheet anchor by T20 standards ( targeting say 60 off 40 balls ), this problem of extra 12 balls can be solved.