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What is the utility of picking so many Consolidators Upfront if most of them invariably fail when the conditions favour pace / swing bowling ?


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23 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

It's a fine balance ,if they attack even more they might not even last these balls. T20 is a tough game,at least the way our matches have gone.They have to be able to handle the pressure and be at the top of their game.

 

 

We have to find more batters like SKY 

 

It is not just ability but a mindset thing too.

 

Shastri was talking about SKY's mindset today.

Edited by express bowling
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2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I can give you names but you will say that they are not good enough. 

 

The next T20 World Cup is 2 years later and we will get 40 to 50 preparatory T20Is before that.

 

We have to try 

 

1. Shaw

2. Pant

3. Prabhsimran

4. Samson 

5. Kishan

 

Give them 10 T20Is on the trot each and tell them the role to perform (  Target 60 off 30 balls ).  We will find out who is good enough.  

Pant is already in the team. Others are just not good enough.I will take these consolidators over them any day . These players can play atleast will play against good bowling attacks.

 

You are making other people who are not in team some how better than players who are selected. They have IPLs and all others tournaments to showcase their talents. We have seen them over and over again and they are not even upto international standards.Shaw has his own issues. If there is another SKY we would have seen in IPL atleast. 

 

Some people wanted Hooda to replace Kohli. Hooda is not even fit to tie shoelaces of Kohli even in his dreams.

 

Edited by putrevus
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40 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pant is already in the team. Others are just not good enough.I will take these consolidators over them any day . These players can play atleast will play against good bowling attacks.

 

You are making other people who are not in team some how better than players who are selected. They have IPLs and all others tournaments to showcase their talents. We have seen them over and over again and they are not even upto international standards.Shaw has his own issues. If there is another SKY we would have seen in IPL atleast. 

 

Some people wanted Hooda to replace Kohli. Hooda is not even fit to tie shoelaces of Kohli even in his dreams.

 

 

 

Pant is in the squad but not opening.

 

Shaw, Samson and Kishan have all performed as pinch hitters or high SR batters in the IPL while batting at the top.

 

Everyone has issues. We have to see who are the ones who are still delivering despite those issues.

 

 

 

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After first batsmen. we have Hardik and DK, totally inconsistent and unreliable. . Today we were 86/2 after 10 overs. But once Sky was dismissed, The next  batsmen were too casual and if not for set Kohli and some tukka shots from Ashwin, we couldn't have reached 184. No wonder, we have anchors who have to bat through. HP is coming way too early , we need a proper batsman after Sky, in case he gets out in the 12-13th over. If we have a slogger then the openers can play freely. Kohli has to anchor through.

 

This problem is there with all teams except maybe Aus atm. Eng were similarly 85/2 in 10 overs against SL and ended up making just 179. They have the likes of Moeen and Livingstone in the MO. 

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19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

After first batsmen. we have Hardik and DK, totally inconsistent and unreliable.

 

Talking about openers, KL & Rohit haven't performed so far apart 1 inning by KL against BD. Openers are the worst performing group. 

 

Only Kohli from TO and SKY from MO have been relatively consistent. 

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1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Talking about openers, KL & Rohit haven't performed so far apart 1 inning by KL against BD. Openers are the worst performing group. 

 

Only Kohli from TO and SKY from MO have been relatively consistent. 

4-7 is there as backup in case TO fails. We are not seeing that too often. 

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42 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

4-7 is there as backup in case TO fails. We are not seeing that too often. 

 

They are not backups but players who try to make the best out of the situation they are in (respond to the situation, which is different in almost every game unlike with top order that plays at 0/0 and 1 wkt down) ...  In the MO, from those who have played at least 3 innings, only Glenn Phillips and SKY have been consistent.

 

Below are top scores so far of some of the notable players in the MO, many don't even have an inning above 30 runs:

 

Stoinis 59* 

SDP 40 

Livingstone 29*

Maxwell 28

Neesham 28*

Moeen 24* 

Brook 18

David 15*

Stokes 8 

Wade 7*

etc. 

 

 

PS also note that if the par score is 160 and if they come in at 30/4 after 6, it means, more or less they alone have to look to get 130 more (to get to 160) from 14 overs in difficult conditions, which means more chances of getting out in trying to push the score. Now if they say, we are 30/4, so let's go at around run a ball, and get 120 (i.e. only 90 more), then they may get a decent individual score but the team will end up w/ a low total ... Many of these guys are also contributing with the ball. 

 

 

Edited by zen
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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Pant is in the squad but not opening.

 

Shaw, Samson and Kishan have all performed as pinch hitters or high SR batters in the IPL while batting at the top.

 

Everyone has issues. We have to see who are the ones who are still delivering despite those issues.

 

 

 

There is noone except Pant , I would have made Pant open in this match itself.  Pant should open from here onwards and Rahul bat at number 5.

 

Lol you are complaining about consolidators at the top.  What about so called finisher Pandya's SR in this tournament. His SR is 102 and how long rope do we give this bozo. Karthik' SR is 63. Before we talk about top 3 let these bozos do something.

Edited by putrevus
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2 hours ago, zen said:

 

They are not backups but players who try to make the best out of the situation they are in (respond to the situation, which is different in almost every game unlike with top order that plays at 0/0 and 1 wkt down) ...  In the MO, from those who have played at least 3 innings, only Glenn Phillips and SKY have been consistent.

 

Below are top scores so far of some of the notable players in the MO, many don't even have an inning above 30 runs:

 

Stoinis 59* 

SDP 40 

Livingstone 29*

Maxwell 28

Neesham 28*

Moeen 24* 

Brook 18

David 15*

Stokes 8 

Wade 7*

etc. 

 

 

PS also note that if the par score is 160 and if they come in at 30/4 after 6, it means, more or less they alone have to look to get 130 more (to get to 160) from 14 overs in difficult conditions, which means more chances of getting out in trying to push the score. Now if they say, we are 30/4, so let's go at around run a ball, and get 120 (i.e. only 90 more), then they may get a decent individual score but the team will end up w/ a low total ... Many of these guys are also contributing with the ball. 

 

 

Very convenient to skip number of balls . Pandya 40(37) :giggle:

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12 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Very convenient to skip number of balls . Pandya 40(37) :giggle:

 

:hmmmm: 


# of balls is irrelevant for that inning (not listed for other players too as their situation could be different too. Someone could have come in with 20 balls to go while someone could have come in at 30/4) … For MO batsmen, it is about playing the situation and handling pressure. He stitched a 100+ runs p’ship when India was 31/4. Took on the spinners to swing the momentum. And more importantly, took 3 quick wkts to reduce Pak or it could have got 180+. Add those 20-25 runs to his tally because of his bowling effort and his runs can be interpreted as 60-65 off 37. 

 

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10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

:hmmmm: 


# of balls is irrelevant for that inning (not listed for other players too as their situation could be different too. Someone could have come in with 20 balls to go while someone could have come in at 30/4) … For MO batsmen, it is about playing the situation and handling pressure. He stitched a 100+ runs p’ship when India was 31/4. Took on the spinners to swing the momentum. And more importantly, took 3 quick wkts to reduce Pak or it could have got 180+. Add those 20-25 runs to his tally because of his bowling effort and his runs can be interpreted as 60-65 off 37. 

 

Tumhara fanpanti ka daad dena padega. We almost lost it because of his batting and you make it look like a match winning innings. If not for Kohli we couldn’t have been in this position, still dependent on top3 like no other team, but they get all the tuk tuk tags.
Last two matches he had the platform from top order , but he didn’t contribute with bat. It’s like jo bhi milega bonus hain usse. Other teams have more consistent at #5. Pant has to replace DK and come at #5

Edited by coffee_rules
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14 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Tumhara fanpanti daad dena padega. We almost lost it because of his batting and you make it look like a match winning innings. If not for Kohli we couldn’t have been in this position, still dependent on top3 like no other team, but they get all the tuk tuk tags.
Last two matches he had the platform from top order , but he didn’t contribute with bat. It’s like jo bhi milega bonus hain usse. Other teams have more consistent at #5. Pant has to replace DK and come at #5


Match was lost at 31/4 … These guys made the match. Anyone who understands the game and seen Sir Don recently knows that now he tends to wait for a particular bowler (Nawaz here) when the game revolves around him (not much batting to come and tons of balls to play) … Kohli played well too but his was more of a fluke knock that happens once in a long long time  (even Kohli was surprised by his performance and compared it to his inning versus Aus in 2016).  
 

 Sir Don has won a big game (for India) versus Pak in this WC (a status game after Ind’s loss the last time). He is playing as an AR where he does not contribute in just one department. If he played as a specialist batsman, batting in top 3-4, we can look into it. Right now, there is no point in wasting time over it.
 

Edited by zen
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11 hours ago, putrevus said:

There is noone except Pant ,

 

 

 

Just your opinion. You wanted IPL performances and I showed you some batters who qualify.

 

 

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

Lol you are complaining about consolidators at the top.  What about so called finisher Pandya's SR in this tournament. His SR is 102 and how long rope do we give this bozo. Karthik' SR is 63. Before we talk about top 3 let these bozos do something.

 

Karthick should not have been in the squad. Perennial choker for years. You reap what you sow.

 

Hardik is usually a high SR batter.  In this tournament, he scored a 37 ball 40 coming in at 31 for 4 type of situation in a big match. Got out very early in his 2 other innings. SR is not his problem. 

 

Just because middle order is not good enough does not mean top order is good. 

 

There are problems in every department of this team ... Slow top 3 ... non dependable middle order ... Too many trundler pacers ... below par spinners.

 

" Do this before that " can't be the approach.  All have to be solved  

Edited by express bowling
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10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Just your opinion. You wanted IPL performances and I showed you some batters who qualify.

 

 

 

Karthick should not have been in the squad. Perennial choker for years. You reap what you sow.

 

Hardik is usually a high SR batter.  In this tournament, he scored a 37 ball 40 coming in at 31 for 4 type of situation in a big match. Got out very early in his 2 other innings. SR is not his problem. 

 

Just because middle order is not good enough does not mean top order is good. 

 

There are problems in every department of this team ... Slow top 3 ... non dependable middle order ... Too many trundler pacers ... below par spinners.

 

Do this before that can't be the approach.  All have to be solved  

 

Correct.

 

You could easily pick a 2nd XI that would beat this team in Australian conditions.


Team was picked as if the WC was in India.

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In my opinion you need a good mix of batters that hold the innings (consolidate) and those who can blitz the bowling.

 

Openers in theory are fine...Rohit is cap so isn't going anywhere and Rahul is a batsmen that can consolidate and then go nuts if need be. Then copy and paste for 3/4 - Kohli and right now SKY who is the inform big hitter...

 

Personally would not have a defined list after that and go according to the game state

 

On this thing about Pandya's innings against PAK. He didn't score quick but if he wasn't there to occupy the crease then Kohli wouldn't have been able to do what he did, overall he was massively important for the win. But my annoyance with him was the over he got 6s was a trigger for him and after that he stopped playing for the team....tried to smash everything, didnt rotate the strike effectively even with Kohli begging for the strike and it was painful to see. If he wants to become a great finisher there's room for improvement

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3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Just your opinion. You wanted IPL performances and I showed you some batters who qualify.

 

 

 

Karthick should not have been in the squad. Perennial choker for years. You reap what you sow.

 

Hardik is usually a high SR batter.  In this tournament, he scored a 37 ball 40 coming in at 31 for 4 type of situation in a big match. Got out very early in his 2 other innings. SR is not his problem. 

 

Just because middle order is not good enough does not mean top order is good. 

 

There are problems in every department of this team ... Slow top 3 ... non dependable middle order ... Too many trundler pacers ... below par spinners.

 

" Do this before that " can't be the approach.  All have to be solved  

 Karthik earned his spot thru IPL. T20s was supposed to be his best option. He failed but he was  best finisher in IPL. so noone is finding fault with his selection. They are finding fault with his playing even after his failures.

 

Pandya SR from 2016 - 2022 is 135 but it is the top3 who are the problem. Wow what a wonderful logic.

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51 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

 

Pandya SR from 2016 - 2022 is 135 but it is the top3 who are the problem. Wow what a wonderful logic.

 

 

Hardik's SR is 145.5  from 2016 to 2022 in T20Is. Don't manufacture facts.

 

And if Hardik is a problem then replace him.  T20 is a format where individual names don't matter and only current form and ability to execute given roles is the key. 

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For those who think we can pick a second eleven which can beat this Indian team - 

 

You people are suffering from Delusion, the same India B team got smashed against SriLanka C team. 

 

Kabhi thoda buddhi ka istemaal kar liya karo, keep on crying about all the talent we have, we sensible people rely on facts, and fact is SriLanka C is as good as India B, so juay forget about winning against this team, our B team will lose against all international teams except the associates. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, putrevus said:

There is noone except Pant, I would have made Pant open in this match itself. Pant should open from here onwards and Rahul bat at number 5.

 

Lol you are complaining about consolidators at the top.  What about so called finisher Pandya's SR in this tournament. His SR is 102 and how long rope do we give this bozo. Karthik' SR is 63. Before we talk about top 3 let these bozos do something.

 

Blaming the one who scored for not finishing is old problem of Indian fans. (Although I do like Hardik Pandya.)

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1 hour ago, Adamant said:

For those who think we can pick a second eleven which can beat this Indian team - 

 

Suggestion is to have just 1 high SR batter as opener in place of Rahul ... and not change the entire 11

 

Rahul can infact add value in the middle order.

 

From the current squad, Pant can replace Karthick and bat in the top 3 and Rahul can come at 5. Hardik is more suited to 6 than 5.

 

Minimal change in batting personnel but can solve a lot of problems.

 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

You people are suffering from Delusion, the same India B team got smashed against SriLanka C team. 

 

Kabhi thoda buddhi ka istemaal kar liya karo, keep on crying about all the talent we have, we sensible people rely on facts, and fact is SriLanka C is as good as India B, so juay forget about winning against this team, our B team will lose against all international teams except the associates. 

 

 

 

 

We won the ODI series 

 

Won the first T20I too. 

 

Then 8 or 6 members got Covid.  We could barely put forth a Playing 11 in the next 2 T20Is. Bhuvi was batting at 6 and Saini at 7. Next match Bhuvi at 6 snd Kuldeep at 7.

 

Don't you remember ?

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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