Do we have the T20 talent?

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

No

 

No leg spin AR

No new ball wicket taker

No big hitter at 6-7 who can slog from word go.

no top 5 bat who can roll arm over.

 

also add poor attitude, poor fitness, and poor fielding. then add nepotism, poor selections, poor coaching, poor investment of resources, and so on... the picture is bleak

[Gollum]

In T20Is there is lack of talent. The sooner people here make peace with that harsh, cold fact the better. We don't have personnel for so many areas, and I don't think we are anywhere close to solving those problems. No quick solution. That sada hua defensive mentality is all encompassing, you see that with Pant in this format, when Shaw/Samson make it to the national side don't expect radical change. Nobody in India likes to play outside his comfort zone in shorter formats, thing is people are rarely stretched outside that zone in domestics, IPL, bilaterals etc....world tournaments a different ball game. 

 

If any person here thinks an alternate Indian team would have stood a chance against Eng in the SF, all I'll say is please stop being delusional. The gulf in ability is so massive that we won't be able to compete with 2nd string Eng on most T20 pitches in the world. You pick an all time Indian T20 XI with peak Yuvraj, Gambo, Viru etc. and still no chance against this English side. 

 

First accept these facts. Too much rona dhona, shitting on players etc., even ODI team isn't a title contender next year.

 

But we have a great test team and future there looks bright, for the moment take solace in that. We are pretty good in the one format that actually matters...we can compete with teams outside home, and absolutely annihilate them at home, like Nadal (opponents, cynics can make 1000 excuses but can't argue with the numbers). Take some break for now, remove the sadness/anger and come back for BG trophy next year. Hopefully we make it to WTC final second time in a row. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Gollum

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

I think this is where I used to be of the same mind, but have finally changed it after seeing 2021 and 2022 WT20s one after that other. perhaps these were the straws that finally broke my back (figuratively speaking).

 

I just don't think there are high-quality talents on the bench or in domestics. yes, there are people who seem to be better than the ones selected, but not by much IMO. I am reminded of the post by @Gollum on a diff thread about bench strength (discussing spin). Thanks to these back-to-back wallopings in 2021 and 2022, it has become easier to believe in the narrative that, if we simply change our personnel, then the results will improve. Unfortunately, I do not find this argument as convincing as before (although it might still be accurate). I look around and I see flawed spinners, pacers, and batters. add to that poor fielding, poor attitudes, and poor fitness.

I have still upvoted your post because you are a long-time poster that I greatly respect. I think we will partly have to disagree, but I will be happy to be proven wrong if next-gen talent is indeed genuine talent and not just "tailunt"

 

 

I am not saying that our results will change if we change our personnel.

 

Along with change in personnel, a change in approach / methodology is needed too.

 

1. Most Indian players are allowed to / encouraged to play for their own records and stats.

 

2. Approach to batting is ... be safe for the first 8 to 10 overs. Allow the top 3 to have good averages and good brand value. 

 

3. We pick so called economical bowlers ( who end up giving runs in big matches anyway  )  instead of wicket takers.

 

As long this approach remains, even change in personnel won't achieve much. 

 

P.S -- You were such a happy and optimistic poster. Just going through your posts gave a good feeling. Why this sudden sadness  ?   

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

In T20Is there is lack of talent. The sooner people here make peace with that harsh, cold fact the better. We don't have personnel for so many areas, and I don't think we are anywhere close to solving those problems. No quick solution. That sada hua defensive mentality is all encompassing, you see that with Pant in this format, when Shaw/Samson make it to the national side don't expect radical change. Nobody in India likes to play outside his comfort zone in shorter formats, thing is people are rarely stretched outside that zone in domestics, IPL, bilaterals etc....world tournaments a different ball game. 

 

If any person here thinks an alternate Indian team would have stood a chance against Eng in the SF, all I'll say is please stop being delusional. The gulf in ability is so massive that we won't be able to compete with 2nd string Eng on most T20 pitches in the world. You pick an all time Indian T20 XI with peak Yuvraj, Gambo, Viru etc. and still no chance against this English side. 

 

First accept these facts. Too much rona dhona, shitting on players etc., even ODI team isn't a title contender next year.

 

But we have a great test team and future there looks bright, for the moment take solace in that. We are pretty good in the one format that actually matters...we can compete with teams outside home, and absolutely annihilate them at home, like Nadal (opponents, cynics can make 1000 excuses but can't argue with the numbers). Take some break for now, remove the sadness/anger and come back for BG trophy next year. Hopefully we make it to WTC final second time in a row. 

 

 

Let's change our approach first in T20Is.

 

1. Batsmen have to focus on only one thing .... high SR 

 

2. Bowlers' main focus has to be to pick wickets 

 

Try this for 1 year without failing 

 

Then we will assess whether we have good enough personnel or not. 

 

And this newer approach is better tried with relative youngsters 

 

Not because they are necessarily better ... but because younger people are less set in their ways and can adapt faster to new things.

Edited November 12, 2022 by express bowling

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I am not saying that our results will change if we change our personnel.

 

Along with change in personnel, a change in approach / methodology is needed too.

 

1. Most Indian players are allowed to / encouraged to play for their own records and stats.

 

2. Approach to batting is ... be safe for the first 8 to 10 overs. Allow the top 3 to have good averages and good brand value. 

 

3. We pick so called economical bowlers ( who end up giving runs in big matches anyway  )  instead of wicket takers.

 

As long this approach remains, even change in personnel won't achieve much. 

 

P.S -- You were such a happy and optimistic poster. Just going through your posts gave a good feeling. Why this sudden sadness  ?   

it was the back to back 10 wkt defeats in consecutive WCs. hopefully taking some time off will restore normality :)

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

In T20Is there is lack of talent. The sooner people here make peace with that harsh, cold fact the better. We don't have personnel for so many areas, and I don't think we are anywhere close to solving those problems. No quick solution. That sada hua defensive mentality is all encompassing, you see that with Pant in this format, when Shaw/Samson make it to the national side don't expect radical change. Nobody in India likes to play outside his comfort zone in shorter formats, thing is people are rarely stretched outside that zone in domestics, IPL, bilaterals etc....world tournaments a different ball game. 

 

If any person here thinks an alternate Indian team would have stood a chance against Eng in the SF, all I'll say is please stop being delusional. The gulf in ability is so massive that we won't be able to compete with 2nd string Eng on most T20 pitches in the world. You pick an all time Indian T20 XI with peak Yuvraj, Gambo, Viru etc. and still no chance against this English side. 

 

First accept these facts. Too much rona dhona, shitting on players etc., even ODI team isn't a title contender next year.

 

But we have a great test team and future there looks bright, for the moment take solace in that. We are pretty good in the one format that actually matters...we can compete with teams outside home, and absolutely annihilate them at home, like Nadal (opponents, cynics can make 1000 excuses but can't argue with the numbers). Take some break for now, remove the sadness/anger and come back for BG trophy next year. Hopefully we make it to WTC final second time in a row. 

not sure if our test team looks so bright. no middle order worth speaking of, inconsistent openers, spinners who can't do jack shite abroad, and injuries to key pacers.

 

however, I have liked what I saw of dhull, sarfaraz, sundar, and others

Edited November 12, 2022 by Vijy

[Lord]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

In T20Is there is lack of talent. The sooner people here make peace with that harsh, cold fact the better. We don't have personnel for so many areas, and I don't think we are anywhere close to solving those problems. No quick solution. That sada hua defensive mentality is all encompassing, you see that with Pant in this format, when Shaw/Samson make it to the national side don't expect radical change. Nobody in India likes to play outside his comfort zone in shorter formats, thing is people are rarely stretched outside that zone in domestics, IPL, bilaterals etc....world tournaments a different ball game. 

 

If any person here thinks an alternate Indian team would have stood a chance against Eng in the SF, all I'll say is please stop being delusional. The gulf in ability is so massive that we won't be able to compete with 2nd string Eng on most T20 pitches in the world. You pick an all time Indian T20 XI with peak Yuvraj, Gambo, Viru etc. and still no chance against this English side. 

 

First accept these facts. Too much rona dhona, shitting on players etc., even ODI team isn't a title contender next year.

 

But we have a great test team and future there looks bright, for the moment take solace in that. We are pretty good in the one format that actually matters...we can compete with teams outside home, and absolutely annihilate them at home, like Nadal (opponents, cynics can make 1000 excuses but can't argue with the numbers). Take some break for now, remove the sadness/anger and come back for BG trophy next year. Hopefully we make it to WTC final second time in a row. 

 

The Irish beat them week earlier. They are certainly not invincibles. Just a batting heavy side with correct approach.

 

Plus we aren't really learning from defeats. Same 2-3 players who fail everytime keep playing. As a result the approach remains. Our best 2 players this edition were SKY and Arshdeep, two relatively fresh inclusions. 

 

ODI in India, I am hopeful. But needs major chances