What are the reasons / logic behind these strange decisions by the TM and Selectors for the WC 2022

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, SRT100 said:

What really exacerbates my hatred of Indian Cricket, is that neither the TM, BCCI or captain will want to go about exploring a new way to win.

Everything will be back to normal when we win meaningless insignificant bilateral white ball series in India. Whats worse is that 1,2,3 in Hitman, KL and Kohli will bat out most of all the overs again, thus denying any new kids any meaningful experience.

 

I simply cannot fathom how SKY,Pandya and Pant can bat so low in the order,  face the least amount of balls and also need to score the most amount of runs.

 

It sounds like utter madness.

Listen the culture is so poisonous ,they pamper the one who is incharge

To the extent,where he becomes bigger than the game,creating brands out if players for sponsers is major reason

 

Someone like Pant,Gill,Pandya,or even Jaiswal all will follow the suit,who doesn't want to abuse ultimate power

[rollingstoned]

14 hours ago, Suhaan said:

There is ,but there is a way to unearth them or nurture them

Look at Pakistan they were down and out but in last 2-3 years they have worked on whatever available with them

They have fasttracked the potential guys say 10 of them 2-3 came good

Their board is open to send their players in foreign leagues,this has reduced the time of preparing near ready t20 players

We can certainly do that,with our pool and money

Not long ago we defeated Australia in Australia with our 2nd and 3rd xi , although it was test,but still it can be done in LOIs as well

England went from the 2015 wc debacle to WC winners in 4 years after a hard reset. No talent in India is bs that i don't buy. Your approach to selection and overall strategy is geared toward vindicating that observation, not that that is actually the case.

Edited November 11, 2022 by rollingstoned

[Vijy]

17 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Listen the culture is so poisonous ,they pamper the one who is incharge

To the extent,where he becomes bigger than the game,creating brands out if players for sponsers is major reason

 

Someone like Pant,Gill,Pandya,or even Jaiswal all will follow the suit,who doesn't want to abuse ultimate power

absolute power corrupts absolutely

[Strangering]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:34 PM, Vijy said:

work ethic is something that is generally missing in SC

No, it is an Indian problem. 

 

Pak, BD, SL, AFG all looked significantly fitter than India. India's cricket culture is of superstars and natural talent instead of fitness, dedication and championship DNA.  

[express bowling]

If Ashwin was in their plans and all it needed was an injury to a spinner to bring him in the ODI squad ... then why was he not played in any ODIs in the last 12 months ?

 

Total lack of planning from TM and selectors. 

 

The same same thing was done with Shami in the last T20 WC in 2022.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:04 AM, Vijy said:

work ethic is something that is generally missing in SC

 

In private companies in India, most people are working 12+ hours a day and often more than 15 hours a day. 

 

They work during weekends too. 

 

In the last 15 years, all I see is people working and working some more in India. 

[Nikhil_cric]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:05 PM, rollingstoned said:

England went from the 2015 wc debacle to WC winners in 4 years after a hard reset. No talent in India is bs that i don't buy. Your approach to selection and overall strategy is geared toward vindicating that observation, not that that is actually the case.

Difficult to implement what they are doing in India.  That level of honesty, competence , accountability does not exist anywhere in India let alone in our cricket.   

 

We are completely tethered to received wisdom and learning and growth is simply not part of our wider culture, let alone cricket culture.  They'll change the coach and captain after the impending World Cup failure and then it's business as usual.

[rollingstoned]

2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Difficult to implement what they are doing in India.  That level of honesty, competence , accountability does not exist anywhere in India let alone in our cricket.   

 

We are completely tethered to received wisdom and learning and growth is simply not part of our wider culture, let alone cricket culture.  They'll change the coach and captain after the impending World Cup failure and then it's business as usual.

Well i wouldn't completely agree since the approach we want to see the team take is one we have taken in this century itself and the style of play itself was a lot more adventurous than we see now pre and in the initial years of the IPL. This babu-dom like PSU style calcification and seniority culture has been something that has taken root after somewhere around Dhoni' time and got reinforced when Kohli won the war against Kumble and got him removed. 

In terms of resources, we will always feel we lack something we never attempt to try out and be stuck in a catch 22.  

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, rollingstoned said:

Well i wouldn't completely agree since the approach we want to see the team take is one we have taken in this century itself and the style of play itself was a lot more adventurous than we see now pre and in the initial years of the IPL. This babu-dom like PSU style calcification and seniority culture has been something that has taken root after somewhere around Dhoni' time and got reinforced when Kohli won the war against Kumble and got him removed. 

In terms of resources, we will always feel we lack something we never attempt to try out and be stuck in a catch 22.  

But these things shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

Just listen to what Andrew Strauss, Ed Smith(selector) , Trevor Bayliss and Eoin Morgan have to say about that white ball revolution they brought about.

 

It was a massive overhaul. They made a detailed analysis of what worked and what didn't and ruthlessly eliminated whatever processes that were redundant. 

 

Virat Kohli, Ravi Shastri etc. still believe in taking the game deep and other disproved notions of how to play LOI cricket .

 

Our "greatest" white ball batsman does not believe in data and match ups when even Scottish minnows play on that basis.  

 

Kohli truly believes that stinking the joint against left arm spin is OK as long as he can survive and hit at the back end against pace.

 

This megalomaniac was our captain at a time when Morgan was busy encouraging his team to find aggressive ways to counter negative matchups - Roy perfected his reverse sweep to away spin.

 

The openers started playing with open power-hitting stances and looked to attack seam bowlers rather than survive because they realised that the only way to win against difficult bowling was to find aggressive ways to counter it.

 

 

Surviving is useless because you may get out and you may not reach par anyway. Balance of probability suggests that if you can get away with a few aggresive strokes, you might stand half a chance. 

 

They were encouraged to fail while trying but lack of intent was the only inexcusable offence. 

 

So they simply sought to improve their execution as much as possible and select as many combinations(left-right)  from 1 to 7. 

 

 

There was no evidence that Kohli and Shastri even had the barest inkling as to why they lost that semifinal in 2019.

 

Kohli put it down to 40 minutes of bad cricket. What a joke!

 

That guy is a lot dumber and a lot more stubborn than people are willing to call him out for.

 

Rohit is not much better but whether he realises it or not, his aggressive starts are much more valuable than the slow starting tons he used to give us till 2019.

 

 

Nobody has even realised that our white ball cricket is way outdated and is relying on 7-8 players to perform exceptionally to even make knockouts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

But these things shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

Just listen to what Andrew Strauss, Ed Smith(selector) , Trevor Bayliss and Eoin Morgan have to say about that white ball revolution they brought about.

 

It was a massive overhaul. They made a detailed analysis of what worked and what didn't and ruthlessly eliminated whatever processes that were redundant. 

 

Virat Kohli, Ravi Shastri etc. still believe in taking the game deep and other disproved notions of how to play LOI cricket .

 

Our "greatest" white ball batsman does not believe in data and match ups when even Scottish minnows play on that basis.  

 

Kohli truly believes that stinking the joint against left arm spin is OK as long as he can survive and hit at the back end against pace.

 

This megalomaniac was our captain at a time when Morgan was busy encouraging his team to find aggressive ways to counter negative matchups - Roy perfected his reverse sweep to away spin.

 

The openers started playing with open power-hitting stances and looked to attack seam bowlers rather than survive because they realised that the only way to win against difficult bowling was to find aggressive ways to counter it.

 

 

Surviving is useless because you may get out and you may not reach par anyway. Balance of probability suggests that if you can get away with a few aggresive strokes, you might stand half a chance. 

 

They were encouraged to fail while trying but lack of intent was the only inexcusable offence. 

 

So they simply sought to improve their execution as much as possible and select as many combinations(left-right)  from 1 to 7. 

 

 

There was no evidence that Kohli and Shastri even had the barest inkling as to why they lost that semifinal in 2019.

 

Kohli put it down to 40 minutes of bad cricket. What a joke!

 

That guy is a lot dumber and a lot more stubborn than people are willing to call him out for.

 

Rohit is not much better but whether he realises it or not, his aggressive starts are much more valuable than the slow starting tons he used to give us till 2019.

 

 

Nobody has even realised that our white ball cricket is way outdated and is relying on 7-8 players to perform exceptionally to even make knockouts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree but these seemingly legacy issues are also a result of only a decade old problem of pandering to certain egos and kowtowing to certain cult of personalties which started with Sachin, then Dhoni and now Kohli and Hitman. The result of doing that was that for most of the last decade we had a MO and lower order which wasn't able to provide the impetus that the game now needed - more so with the new ODI rules - and certain parts of the team stagnated due to being ignored. The 'safe approach' reminiscent of the 90s was justified as being necessary because of a brittle lower and middle order where those who were never going to have a future in the team in Jadhav, Pandey, Rayudu, DK, Rahane and Vijay Shankar were given chances when before they tried to still see how far they could still milk the likes of Raina, Dhoni and Yuvraj who kept entering the team every now and then because no one else was being groomed. It's upto anyone's interpretation whether all this was being done on purpose or was a result of incompetence. 

 

Kohli and Shastri found a comfort zone in that approach - even though I feel Nzl used that 'outdated' approach better IMO - and were tactically limited but to their credit they did bring in a culture where fast bowling and attacking in the middle overs with leg spin was prioritized so they did have some ideas that were right imo. The issue is in not being nimble enough to pivot to something else when your resources are not the same anymore and the game itself has changed in many ways. The problems we had in 2019 don't exist anymore yet we play as though they do, to say nothing of not willing to make the sacrifices that are necessary to get to where we think we ought to be. 

England made those sweeping changes because they failed hard in 2015 and the only way was up. Here the problem is it doesn't seem like the team has hit rock bottom yet to call for changes on that level so it won't happen unless we get a captain who is a visionary and thinks along those lines.

[Vijy]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:27 AM, express bowling said:

 

In private companies in India, most people are working 12+ hours a day and often more than 15 hours a day. 

 

They work during weekends too. 

 

In the last 15 years, all I see is people working and working some more in India. 

private companies, yes, but look at govt service.

[Nikhil_cric]

The World T20 in Caribbean should have a lineup somewhat like this

 

Yashaswi

Gill

Sai Sudarshan

SKY

Tilak

Kishan

Axar

Siraj

 

Can't afford to go back to Kohli/Rohit/KL etc. 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The World T20 in Caribbean should have a lineup somewhat like this

 

Yashaswi

Gill

Sai Sudarshan

SKY

Tilak

Kishan

Axar

Siraj

 

Can't afford to go back to Kohli/Rohit/KL etc. 

 

 

It will be very critical who the the pacers will be.

 

Can't win with 2 or more among Mukesh Kumar, Shardul, Arshdeep, Mavi in the playing 11. 

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The World T20 in Caribbean should have a lineup somewhat like this

 

Yashaswi

Gill

Sai Sudarshan

SKY

Tilak

Kishan

Axar

Siraj

 

Can't afford to go back to Kohli/Rohit/KL etc. 

Hardik will surely be there

 

Yashasvi

Gill

SKY

Tilak

Hardik

Rinku

Jurel/Jitesh

Bishnoi

Kuldeep

Siraj

Prasidh

 

Backups :

 

Sudarshan

Nitish Rana

Venky Iyer

Umran

Varun C (will be useful on those pitches)

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Hardik will surely be there

 

Yashasvi

Gill

SKY

Tilak

Hardik

Rinku

Jurel/Jitesh

Bishnoi

Kuldeep

Siraj

Prasidh

 

Backups :

 

Sudarshan

Nitish Rana

Venky Iyer

Umran

Varun C (will be useful on those pitches)

 

 

This would be ideal for WI pitches.  You are spot on about Varun C on those wickets.  But he has to improve his batting and fielding big time. Terrible in both areas.  There is that new guy Suyash also worth a look. Pandya will definitely try to stack up the side with bowlers. If possible 7. So some batsman might  lose out there.

Edited September 26, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

This would be ideal for WI pitches.  You are spot on about Varun C on those wickets.  But he has to improve his batting and fielding big time. Terrible in both areas.  There is that new guy Suyash also worth a look. Pandya will definitely try to stack up the side with bowlers. If possible 7. So some batsman might  lose out there.

Suyash is conventional leggie who can't bat. Another  Chahal.

 

Can play Varun even at XI yet he'll be useful. Good enough as backup anyway. Can bowl in all phases.

[express bowling]

1. Gill

2. Jaiswal

3. SKY

4. Pant / Kishan 

5. Hardik 

6. Rinku

7. Washington 

8. Harshit 

9. Bumrah 

10. Kuldeep 

11. Pacer **

 

12. Sudarshan 

13. Tilak

14. Jurel 

15. Pacer.  **

16. Bishnoi 

 

** ---- Will fill these 2 spots after looking at IPL 2024

 

[prudent_kreeda]

For WC2024 

1. Gill

2. Jaiswal

3. Tilak

4. SKY

5. Pant/KL 

6. Hardik 

7. Rinku/Kishan

8. Washington 

9. Bumrah 

10. Kuldeep 

11. Arshdeep(when back to old form), Mohsin 

[singhvivek141]

16 hours ago, Lord said:

Hardik will surely be there

 

Yashasvi

Gill

SKY

Tilak

Hardik

Rinku

Jurel/Jitesh

Bishnoi

Kuldeep

Siraj

Prasidh

 

Backups :

 

Sudarshan

Nitish Rana

Venky Iyer

Umran

Varun C (will be useful on those pitches)

 

Big question mark on these 2...

Nitish can be replaced by Jurel (if Jitesh is keeping & vice versa). Additional keeper will also be covered.

 

In place of Venky Iyer, I will go with Abhishek or Tewatia (slightly biased towards Tewatia as he can bat at no 6/7).

[Nikhil_cric]

16 hours ago, Lord said:

Hardik will surely be there

 

Yashasvi

Gill

SKY

Tilak

Hardik

Rinku

Jurel/Jitesh

Bishnoi

Kuldeep

Siraj

Prasidh

 

Backups :

 

Sudarshan

Nitish Rana

Venky Iyer

Umran

Varun C (will be useful on those pitches)

 

Rinku has slight technical issues which might get exposed. Worth trying but I'm not sure.  Jitesh is really good and my line up has too many LHB's anyway so if Pant is not fit and Ishan continues to struggle on slow pitches, he can be there. He is a technically strong player and offers a keeping option as well. 

 

If India were to look at tests,ODI's and T20's as exclusive formats, I'd be more comfortable with the likes of Rinku and Nitish coming in.

 

But that ain't happening. So might as well back youngsters with potential and those with a relatively strong technical base and back them for the full 4 year cycle. 

 

By 2027, these guys should have enough experience and be given a solid run(We gave our current captain a 100 chances before he became what he is now) Chopping and changing is why we end up on the eve of the World Cup wondering whether SKY can crack the format or if Ishan can bat in the middle order.

 

Sai's timing rating (according to Cricviz) is second only to Shubman in our entire white ball setup. And he did well in Emerging Asia Cup and in IPL. Also, he's a left-hander. We have seen enough.  Got to back players with ability who are more likely to succeed at the top level than backing guys like Venky Iyer whose window of opportunity to play for India has passed imo. Ditto with Nitish.

 

Also, Hardik is either an all-rounder who hits at 7 or he should not play at all. Otherwise, we'll play safe and not develop a part-time spinner and in the last minute, complain TINA - therefore, we need 6 bowlers and drop a batter.

 

Tilak has to be made aware that his selection is contingent to developing his part time offspin skills.

 

This 4 year cycle has to implement all this - and we actually have top flight left handed batsmen for a change!

 

Can't afford to lose this lot. It has the makings of an extremely dominant white ball side across both formats with a very high ceiling.

 

Otherwise, we will be talking about the same issues even in 2027