MICHAEL VAUGHAN: India are the most under-performing team in white-ball history

[sage]

We don't need to prove anything to anyone: Hardik Pandya responds to Michael Vaughan's criticism

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/india-in-new-zealand/roadmap-for-2024-t20-world-cup-starts-now-lot-of-people-will-get-enough-chances-hardik-pandya/articleshow/95548377.cms

 

[sandeep]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:47 AM, coffee_rules said:

Post-2015, England has addressed many of their white-ball woes and they looked to have benefited more from IPL than India. 

Aus, SA, Eng players have definitely benefited a lot from IPL and not just financially.  Many of their top prospects got so much better against spin, and the lower bounce conditions of subcontinent thanks to IPL.  To some degree, Indian 'home advantage' has been reduced significantly.  That's an acceptable price to pay for the trade-off - hosting the world's best cricket league, enabling our younger players to play for years with the best in the game, etc.  

 

The problem for Indian cricket isn't that the IPL didn't 'benefit', its that the tactics are not in the right place.  Blaming IPL is simply an ignorant act of frustration.

[Khota]

He summed it up in one word. Dated. Dated as in primitive and not forward thinking. Playing the same two failed openers for 6 consecutive games was madness. Expecting different otcome from pregnant Rohit and KLPD Rahul was stupidity.

 

I am glad Michael Vaughn said it honestly.

[coffee_rules]

53 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Aus, SA, Eng players have definitely benefited a lot from IPL and not just financially.  Many of their top prospects got so much better against spin, and the lower bounce conditions of subcontinent thanks to IPL.  To some degree, Indian 'home advantage' has been reduced significantly.  That's an acceptable price to pay for the trade-off - hosting the world's best cricket league, enabling our younger players to play for years with the best in the game, etc.  

 

The problem for Indian cricket isn't that the IPL didn't 'benefit', its that the tactics are not in the right place.  Blaming IPL is simply an ignorant act of frustration.

If  we are getting better with IPL experience, there is not much to show on paper , just 2014,16 and 22 KO appearances. It irks a lot of Indians. 

[vvvslaxman]

35 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

If  we are getting better with IPL experience, there is not much to show on paper , just 2014,16 and 22 KO appearances. It irks a lot of Indians. 

 

We are using IPL for test match selections lol We accidentally discovered quiet a lot of guys.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, sage said:

We don't need to prove anything to anyone: Hardik Pandya responds to Michael Vaughan's criticism

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/india-in-new-zealand/roadmap-for-2024-t20-world-cup-starts-now-lot-of-people-will-get-enough-chances-hardik-pandya/articleshow/95548377.cms

 

Exhibit number 1: Pandya is an idiot.

 

At that level you have to prove everyday that you belong. This is the mindset responsible for Indian failure at that level.

[raki05]

Where were Vaugn was before 2019. Eng have won nadda till than suddenly  they won 2 and this troll has revamped entire history. Actually india has the most underperforming Management, Selectors and Coaches  since eternity that's the reason of under performance, they never seems to be picking right talent for right format.

Edited November 19, 2022 by raki05

[Vilander]

So is this because Eng won lol, who the * does he think he is. * off Vaughan.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Vilander

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

If  we are getting better with IPL experience, there is not much to show on paper , just 2014,16 and 22 KO appearances. It irks a lot of Indians. 

Players are getting better at individual level, but team is not.  Because team isn't constructed or incentivized for optimal results.  Its constructed for stability for seniors.  "Don't rock the boat".  "Make younger players wait years for 'their turn'.   Thats why the results are sub-optimal...

[Khota]

8 hours ago, raki05 said:

Where were Vaugn was before 2019. Eng have won nadda till than suddenly  they won 2 and this troll has revamped entire history. Actually india has the most underperforming Management, Selectors and Coaches  since eternity that's the reason of under performance, they never seems to be picking right talent for right format.

What happened in the past has no bearing to what happened yesterday.

 

Instead of criticizing Vaughn can you tell me what did he say that was wrong?

[Khota]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

Players are getting better at individual level, but team is not.  Because team isn't constructed or incentivized for optimal results.  Its constructed for stability for seniors.  "Don't rock the boat".  "Make younger players wait years for 'their turn'.   Thats why the results are sub-optimal...

That is definitely part of the reason.

[Sandz]

No it’s South Africa.

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, sandeep said:

Players are getting better at individual level, but team is not.  Because team isn't constructed or incentivized for optimal results.  Its constructed for stability for seniors.  "Don't rock the boat".  "Make younger players wait years for 'their turn'.   Thats why the results are sub-optimal...

it is a case of whole being lesser than sum of parts, whereas for NZ it is often the opposite

[sandeep]

37 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it is a case of whole being lesser than sum of parts, whereas for NZ it is often the opposite

Honestly tired of sounding like a broken record on this...

 

I attributed it to a large part, to kuptaan wrogn and his clear-eyed objective to keep Virat inc maximally profitable for the longest possible period of time - hence the refusal to allow any other young batting talent to get into a position where they may be able to succeed.  Hence the glaring preference to go for older batsmen like Kedar Jadhav, Manish Pandey, Ambati Rayudu, instead of grooming guys like Shaw, Gill who have all been around for close to 5 years now.  

 

But now Virat is not 'running the show'.  Let's see.

 

[coffee_rules]

40 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Honestly tired of sounding like a broken record on this...

 

I attributed it to a large part, to kuptaan wrogn and his clear-eyed objective to keep Virat inc maximally profitable for the longest possible period of time - hence the refusal to allow any other young batting talent to get into a position where they may be able to succeed.  Hence the glaring preference to go for older batsmen like Kedar Jadhav, Manish Pandey, Ambati Rayudu, instead of grooming guys like Shaw, Gill who have all been around for close to 5 years now.  

 

But now Virat is not 'running the show'.  Let's see.

 

Not a Kohli bhakt to defend this kaandpiracy, but didn’t the aforementioned players debut under Thala?  

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Not a Kohli bhakt to defend this kaandpiracy, but didn’t the aforementioned players debut under Thala?  

Its not about 'debut' though right? Its about opportunities and player development.  Under Ganguly, Veeru's potential was recognized and he was promoted up the order in bilaterals to find the optimal role that allowed him to blossom.  Under Virat, 'new' players were shunted to #6/7 and asked to bat 'fearlessly'  while the top order continued to rack up individual landmarks in the guise of 'setting platforms'.  Even KLPD changed his game to fit that model because he realized that this is what's incentivized. 

 

If we think back to 2018, especially early 2018, India had the opportunity to promote the likes of Pandya, Pant, KLPD to the top order and give them extended runs to build up a body of work.  But this was never done.  Instead, we made one of our quality test openers into a wicket keeper bat in order for him to find room in the ODI XI.  And then you turn around in a WC semi-final and promote these guys up the order in a tough situation to deliver, and act surprised when it doesn't come off.  

 

Look, I don't mind if India fails to win world cup tournaments - outcomes are not guaranteed - too many variables.  But what I have a huge dissatisfaction with is the flawed tactics, team building, refusal to give the team the best chance to win by planning properly - that's what I have a problem with.  The 2019 ODI WC final we should have played in.  We had peak Boomrah, close to peak Bhuvi, Shami, and KulCha bowling well.  And an Indian team crashed out of the world cup because the batting failed to chase 240.  And again, its not about the one-off outcome - failing to prepare is preparing to fail.  that's what I have an issue with.  And unfortunately, stage is set for India to break the streak of host winning ODI WC for the first time in 16 years.  Because we are failing to prepare.  

[sage]

On 11/18/2022 at 9:01 PM, sage said:

We don't need to prove anything to anyone: Hardik Pandya responds to Michael Vaughan's criticism

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/india-in-new-zealand/roadmap-for-2024-t20-world-cup-starts-now-lot-of-people-will-get-enough-chances-hardik-pandya/articleshow/95548377.cms

 

still not proving anything

[zen]

Considering resources including talent, Vaughan is spot on 

 

Hope that under Sir Don Pandya, India is eventually able to play to its potential

[AKane]

17 hours ago, sage said:

still not proving anything

He has inadvertently proven that Vaughn was right.

[Vijy]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:25 PM, sage said:

still not proving anything

he's proved that vaughan is a troll, but an astute troll at times