Rahul Dravid rested for New Zealand tour, VVS Laxman to coach India

[vivek04]

40 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

 

Pls boycott IPeeL too, if u can.  

No need to mention it

[cricketfan28]

boycott ipl, that is the main culprit it creates superstars.

[rollingstoned]

Not running the rule over coaches based on their playing career is about right but it does beg the question what these coaches have achieved so far in their career? Lalchand Rajput and B Arun both did not have stellar playing careers but were excellent coaches/man managers. Based purely off what i hear of Laxman's analysis i don't think he is someone who will rock the boat too much or introduce out of the box ideas. Ideally we need someone who retired recently to guide our white ball cricket revamp.

[SRT100]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

if not for 2 narrow wins, we would be out in 1st round, which is what I expected.

 

also expecting 1st round exit in 2023 WC

 

Correct. Our WC results are really worse than what it is in reality.

 

Beating Pakistan was purely based on that waist high no ball in the last over.

 

Beating Bangladesh was based on the umpire missing Kohli's fake fielding.

 

I wonder if changes to selection and tactics would have changed had these two results gone against us, which they easily could have.

[SRT100]

1 hour ago, cricketfan28 said:

boycott ipl, that is the main culprit it creates superstars.

 

Indian supporters on here must realize now, that IPL has become its own worst enemy.

[SRT100]

8 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

Basically changing the captaincy will change nothing. Indian Cricket problems are structural.

 

1. For all our batting prowess we still prefer being conservative at the top. Whatever the conditions, playing a maiden opening over in T20 should get you kicked out at the top of order. We play the 1st 6 overs to prevent a collapse rather than an opportunity to score runs. Whether its Virat or Rohit there hasn't been any change to this attitude. 

 

2. We just stopped producing quality multi-faceted players - Yuvi, Raina, Sachin, Sehwag. So many players the team could go to when our bowlers aren't having a good day. I believe the team  & selectors should do more than just picking whats available. Requirement should be sent out to all local boards & aspiring players. Want to considered for the team? be multi-faceted. Fielding seems to have regressed, bowlers need to be hidden, Virat outfields many of our youngsters.

 

3. Bowling line & length over pace, experience over youth, same with our batting too.

 

Pandya is not a silver bullet. Unless team solves these structural problems we will remain mediocre doing the bare minimum of reaching the KOs. 

 

Our first 4 batsmen +wicketkeeper can not bowl a single delivery, therein lies one big problem, in that we must include 5 bowlers from the remaining 6 positions.

[IndianRenegade]

5 hours ago, kirkutfan said:

Achrekar never played first class cricket and produced Tendulkar. So we need to evaluate these guys as coaches, not what they were as players.

 How is this an apples to apple comparison? Coaching a kid who probably just knows the basics of the game is same as coaching an International Team? Achrekar had far more technical knowledge & experience than Tendulkar when he started coaching him 

 

I am not even saying  Hrishikesh Kanitkar & Sairaj Bahutule are bad coaches per se, but tasking them to help a team in a format which they have expertise only as an outsider is a hard sell for me. We aren't in the early days of T20, there are veterans of the game with coaching credentials. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by IndianRenegade

[kirkutfan]

13 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

 How is this an apples to apple comparison? Coaching a kid who probably just knows the basics of the game is same as coaching an International Team? Achrekar had far more technical knowledge & experience than Tendulkar when he started coaching him 

 

I am not even saying  Hrishikesh Kanitkar & Sairaj Bahutule are bad coaches per se, but tasking them to help a team in a format which they have expertise only as an outsider is a hard sell for me. We aren't in the early days of T20, there are veterans of the game with coaching credentials. 

The point here is that just because a person wasn’t great as a player doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be good as a coach. It is possible that they know enough about the game to provide something of value to players. Similarly, a champion player wouldn’t necessarily be a great coach. 

[IndianRenegade]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

 

Our first 4 batsmen +wicketkeeper can not bowl a single delivery, therein lies one big problem, in that we must include 5 bowlers from the remaining 6 positions.

And our bowlers can’t hold the bat, except ashwin. The long tail means our already conservative top order turns ultra conservative the moment we lose couple of wkts.

[kirkutfan]

3 hours ago, Pollack said:

These are high profile positions to be filled. Both Kanitkar and Bahutule don't have outstanding career in coaching. It's like Google hiring software engineer from local no name college because he has topped in that local college with just 70 percent. This doesn't happen, right? They usually go for toppers from prestigious University. To be honest both the guys selected aren't even best coaches in domestics.

I don’t know who the toppers are. Both Kanitkar and Bahutule have coached with Ranji, India A and IPL teams. So it isn’t as if they don’t have experience to be considered for the roles they got. Point is their evaluation should be based on the work they’ve done with those sides, and the players in those sides. Not whether they were champion players themselves. 

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

structural problems will not get solved anytime soon (or perhaps at all), so we can look forward to many more "fun" performances like this one

 

It can change only if there are financial repercussions due to repeated poor shows one after the other in big LOI tournaments.

 

If IPL Media and other media rights sell for less, they will take steps. Otherwise not. 

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, kirkutfan said:

I don’t know who the toppers are. Both Kanitkar and Bahutule have coached with Ranji, India A and IPL teams. So it isn’t as if they don’t have experience to be considered for the roles they got. Point is their evaluation should be based on the work they’ve done with those sides, and the players in those sides. Not whether they were champion players themselves. 

Point is hire coaches with International experience (of coaching) and if he is a reputed player and a foreigner it's an added advantage. BCCI has all the money in the world.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, kirkutfan said:

The point here is that just because a person wasn’t great as a player doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be good as a coach. It is possible that they know enough about the game to provide something of value to players. Similarly, a champion player wouldn’t necessarily be a great coach. 

We all get that point, but thing is when we have likes of Gillespie, Steyn available as a coach, what's the point of hiring someone like Bahutule. It's not like BCCi has lack of funds

 

PCB with its limited sources go for Shaun Tait as a bowling coach, why don't we just for name sake. Our one of the most successful coach Gary Kirsten was a champion batter.

 

 

 

[kirkutfan]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

We all get that point, but thing is when we have likes of Gillespie, Steyn available as a coach, what's the point of hiring someone like Bahutule. It's not like BCCi has lack of funds

 

PCB with its limited sources go for Shaun Tait as a bowling coach, why don't we just for name sake. Our one of the most successful coach Gary Kirsten was a champion batter.

 

 

 

Do we know if someone like Gillespie would be willing to work with an India team for the entire year? India play a lot of cricket without much break. I remember this being an issue with international coaches before. Also, both of these guys have coached in domestic cricket. Isn’t it possible that the powers that be saw something and legitimately determined that they have something to offer our national side? How do we develop a system of bringing up good coaches of our own at all levels? Also, there is such a thing as a cultural fit. Gary Kirsten, John Wright did well. Duncan Fletcher, Greg Chappell not so much. Note, Duncan Fletcher had far more success coaching the English side. Greg Chappell wasn’t an idiot, ideas wise, but was clueless when working with individual players. So that adaptability aspect needs to be considered too.

[kirkutfan]

5 hours ago, Pollack said:

Point is hire coaches with International experience (of coaching) and if he is a reputed player and a foreigner it's an added advantage. BCCI has all the money in the world.

I don’t know if simply getting a foreign coach who was a reputed player necessarily fixes the problem.And just because a person knows how to work with let’s say an Australian state side or even national side doesn’t mean that he will work well with an Indian side. Adaptability, communication are things that one needs to consider.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

It can change only if there are financial repercussions due to repeated poor shows one after the other in big LOI tournaments.

 

If IPL Media and other media rights sell for less, they will take steps. Otherwise not. 

even if they sell for less, I don't think the impact will be high... it needs to sink so low that no one will buy the rights

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, kirkutfan said:

Do we know if someone like Gillespie would be willing to work with an India team for the entire year? India play a lot of cricket without much break. I remember this being an issue with international coaches before. Also, both of these guys have coached in domestic cricket. Isn’t it possible that the powers that be saw something and legitimately determined that they have something to offer our national side? How do we develop a system of bringing up good coaches of our own at all levels? Also, there is such a thing as a cultural fit. Gary Kirsten, John Wright did well. Duncan Fletcher, Greg Chappell not so much. Note, Duncan Fletcher had far more success coaching the English side. Greg Chappell wasn’t an idiot, ideas wise, but was clueless when working with individual players. So that adaptability aspect needs to be considered too.

Not sure mate, and Gillespie is just one name but there will be others as well who would be able to spend some time.
I know, foreign coaches do have their limitations, but it isn't that big an issue which BCCI can't handle....there is always a 2.5-3 month window in IPL which is rest time for such coaches.
APart from Gillespie, like of Shane Bond, Dale Steyn has been with Indian IPL setup...surely they aren't alien to our cricket.
Point is when Pakistan can pull Shaun Tait and Matthew Hayden, why don't we try that......unless we'll try we won't know what will work and what not.

 

[vvvslaxman]

By the way first time i read something like Coach A rested Coach B takes over lol 

[cricketfan28]

Already starting seeing  ipl tranding posts on my Instagram, The brainwash is about to begin.

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

By the way first time i read something like Coach A rested Coach B takes over lol 

apparently now coaches are also being rested and rotated. perhaps selectors can also be rested for a while