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How long before we realize our Test team needs a major revamp?


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13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

bhai toh phir 2020-21 BG kya tha? 

That was nature's justice to young in the sidelines,injuries after injuries forced our TM to play  relatively new players and naturally they delivered

 

If we can achieve that why can't we win with new guys  and fearless approach sans the pampered seniors in every format

 

Edited by Suhaan
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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Afghans came here with some so called great spinners.....Vijay/Dhawan combined scored 300 runs in 50 overs on day 1....both individually managing more than what Afghans could in either innings. Match got over in 2 days but what people forget is we scored almost 500 at 5 rpo, Afghans lasted just over 50 overs across both their innings!!!!

 

Do people still not understand difference between formats? Adil Rashid averages 60 in India, Santner and Maharaj over 80...same guys who bully us with the white ball. Sure you can pick up Aijaz's 10fer but at what cost, 10/250? India won that test by close to 400 runs and they lost by innings to one player on our side. 

 

People talk about Swann-Panesar but forget that the 2012 Eng side had peak versions of Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior and an Anderson who had his first taste of success in Asia, that reverse swing spell in Kolkata!!!! 

 

You look at the scorecards of tests in India since 2013, then the fact that we have lost 65% of those tosses, W-L of 35/2 and majority wins being by margin of innings or 200+ runs......then ICF experts swoop in and say how easy it is to beat this India in India:hysterical:

 

Last test of NZ in India, lost by 390 runs

Last test of Eng in India, lost by innings and 25 runs

Last test of RSA in India, lost by innings and 202 runs

Last test of Aus in  India, lost by 8 wickets

 

If India loses by such margins in SENA I will stop watching cricket. But but but it is so easy to beat India in India, India weak, India decline. Do folks hear even listen to the stuff they say?

 

So? We will win at home with Jayant Yadav and Shahbaz replacing Axar and Ashwin. But problems need to be addressed irrespective of results.

 

What was India's last permanent opening pair, Vijay-Dhawan? Since then, how many times have we start with same pair in consecutive series. We tried Rohit, Shaw, KL, Gill, Agarwal, Vihari. It's like they flip a coin and decide who is going to open today.

 

Let's see how long Rohit-Rahul can go. 

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19 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

That was nature's justice to young in the sidelines,injuries after injuries forced our TM to play  relatively new players and naturally they delivered

 

Absolutely - that Brisbane test gave more joy than all the tests since 1983 WC combined.

 

Gill, Thakur, Sundar, Siraj  and of course Pant beat back Smith/Warner/Starc/Cummins/Hazelwood at Brisbane under pressure..... with the senior Pujara absorbing the body blows.

 

Match Wickets Thakur 7, Siraj 6, Sundar 4, Natarajan 3 ...... amazing!!!! Not a single runout in 20!

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Can admins please ban some of the padosi trolls who are spamming, creating new threads every hour etc. They add nothing constructive or worth our time, *ing pests visit only on occasions like this, rest of the year they'll be hiding. First page is littered with their filth, faltu mein apnon ka BP badh raha hai. 

Sabka waqt aata hai

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5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Glad we lost in SF itself, had the fiasco happened in final don't know how this forum would have reacted!!! So much rona dhona over a T20 result, my God. 

Nah this isn't a Rona dhona. The nature of hammering is what makes people angry. Have you seen in any wt20 tournament since it's inception that any side is being smashed by 10 wickets win. Flat pitch, aggresive batsmen all are on one side but this is just utterly shameful and this happened twice in back to back wt20 tournaments. Hell even minnows haven't been trashed like it and they have been competitive throughout the tournament.. 

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6 hours ago, Gollum said:

I understand people are emotional, just thought that by now (48 hours) things should have settled down. Thoda excess ho raha hai, and too much negativity. Also the cancelling of our legitimate achievements in recent times....saw one post which said we have won nothing the last 10 years....bhai toh phir 2020-21 BG kya tha? 

 

Legit criticism is ok, but going overboard can be avoided. I agree with almost all the criticism here, haa rot hai, corruption hai, lack of accountability hai, ambition kam hai, seniority culture vs youth etc. But doesn't mean I will start cancelling the highs of my team, they joy the players have given me in recent times. Doesn't mean I will suddenly start overrating all other teams to pull my team down. I have always felt that P4P Indian cricket team ranks at the bottom, but one must also be fair when it comes to cherishing the positives. 

A deep negative reaction is required to make systemic changes . Accepting mediocrity should be admonished ..  Systemic changes in pitches , coaches , players , selectors at all levels 

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7 hours ago, nevada said:

. The only way out is to adopt a strict analytics based system which sets a performance threshold. Like the yo-yo test, any cricketer failing to meet the threshold should be automatically dropped. We can't have a bunch of faded "stars" stinking it up series after series.

 

They will play T20Is against the weaker sides ... miss T20Is against the stronger sides in the name of workload management ... and bypass the performance threshold.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Gollum said:

If, can...

Lucky for them. They have declined in tests and this Indian team at home is more efficient/ruthless than our 80s/90s sides. No comparison whatsoever. You really think Pak can escape with a draw if they play us here, you following their test team in recent times?

Qadir was always manhandled by us, they won here once in the 80s but that was a pathetic Indian team for home conditions with Maninder Singh, Shastri, Ayub as our spin trio...we even lost to England that time. 80s was our worst decade when it comes to spin stocks...nobody between spin quartet era and Kumble era. 

They beat us in 90s because they were much better side than India, period. Also had a mental stranglehold, got lucky as well in Madras and Eden. Also we had just Srinath/Kumble back then, this team has more firepower when it comes to bowling.

RSA won with pace in 2000.

NZ never won in India, we have won there a couple of times.

How is it our fault if Aus doesn't have another Lyon like spinner? You make it sound like it is easy producing such kind of spinners.

Anyway I don't even understand this part of your post. What exactly do you want to convey here?

he seems to be saying it is trivial to beat Ind in Ind, but the stats clearly indicate otherwise

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8 hours ago, Gollum said:

I understand people are emotional, just thought that by now (48 hours) things should have settled down. Thoda excess ho raha hai, and too much negativity. Also the cancelling of our legitimate achievements in recent times....saw one post which said we have won nothing the last 10 years....bhai toh phir 2020-21 BG kya tha? 

 

Legit criticism is ok, but going overboard can be avoided. I agree with almost all the criticism here, haa rot hai, corruption hai, lack of accountability hai, ambition kam hai, seniority culture vs youth etc. But doesn't mean I will start cancelling the highs of my team, they joy the players have given me in recent times. Doesn't mean I will suddenly start overrating all other teams to pull my team down. I have always felt that P4P Indian cricket team ranks at the bottom, but one must also be fair when it comes to cherishing the positives. 

it is the back-to-back shellacking and the attitude that rankles the most. also losing test series in SA and drawing in Eng was quite bitter to take

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10 hours ago, AKane said:

Just as a note

 

Rahane   averages 38.5 in tests and last five years it was  30.75.       

KL Rahul averages 35.37 in tests and last five years it was 28.02

 

Not disputing that Rahane underperformed......... 

 

 

Difference is Rahul has to face new ball, fresh bowlers. Rahane bats at 5. Pitches too has been bowling friendly in these years.

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We have somewhat similar issues in the Tests as well

 

1) Spinners who can't take wickets overseas

2) Very weak lower order which often leads to dramatic collapses in the backend.

3) Fast bowlers who don't take wickets in flat overseas conditions

4) Inconsistent openers

5) Lack of an all rounder in the middle

Pant is the only one who shows up once in a while. He is a maverick player. You can't expect him to turn up in every innings.  

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In tests, the issue is that nobody has a strong record against pace in the last few years. Pitches and conditions have become tough no doubt . But still,  there's been a general decline .

Rohit Sharma has been our best batsman against pace in Test cricket since 2019 and that's an issue. 

 

Secondly, Ash and Jadeja are old and the seamdrs also look jaded at times. On tough bowling pitches, the seamers need to be better. The attack misses the high release of Ishant. It is a 1 dimensional attack without him. 

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25 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

In tests, the issue is that nobody has a strong record against pace in the last few years. Pitches and conditions have become tough no doubt . But still,  there's been a general decline .

Rohit Sharma has been our best batsman against pace in Test cricket since 2019 and that's an issue. 

 

Secondly, Ash and Jadeja are old and the seamdrs also look jaded at times. On tough bowling pitches, the seamers need to be better. The attack misses the high release of Ishant. It is a 1 dimensional attack without him. 

need to get prasidh into team. also kartik

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The test team is fine now and future. Able replacements are there .

 

Spinners have done well in Aus contrary to what people expect.The batting is good v pace and bounce.

 

Will take a hit once Ash-Jaddu retire (two biggest reasons for home domination) but will still will be competitive away and hard to beat at home

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4 minutes ago, Lord said:

The test team is fine now and future. Able replacements are there .

 

Spinners have done well in Aus contrary to what people expect.The batting is good v pace and bounce.

 

Will take a hit once Ash-Jaddu retire (two biggest reasons for home domination) but will still will be competitive away and hard to beat at home

able replacements not getting chances so far. prasidh, kuldeep sen, and tyagi in pace; sarfaraz, dhull, and jasiwal in tests; sundar as AR; list goes on

Edited by Vijy
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1 minute ago, Vijy said:

able replacements not getting chances so far. prasidh, kuldeep sen, and tyagi in pace; sarfaraz, dhull, and jasiwal in tests; sundar as AR; list goes on

because there's no need. The current players are doing well Slowly they'll be phased out and replaced.

 

Kuldeep,Sundar have already played at the top level. 

 

Sarfaraz will soon replace Iyer. Gill next in line too

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