Unpopular opinion- Arshdeep Singh does not have a particularly high ceiling.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

No one is bashing him.

 

It's a discussion of the repertoire that he has and how he can improve so that his ceiling increases.

 

He is just 23 and should work on the major shortcoming. 

 

 

 

It is bashing. How often do you see such threads when one is doing well?

 

Nothing wrong with his repertoire for LOIs. No one has called him Test bowler anyway.

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

 

It is bashing. How often do you see such threads when one is doing well?

 

Nothing wrong with his repertoire for LOIs. No one has called him Test bowler anyway.

 

 

I don't agree at all. 

 

Umran was one of the highest wicket takers in this IPL ... but we discussed over and over again how he needs to improve his stock ball, his lines and the height of his bouncers.

 

Same here with Arshdeep.

 

The time to improve and add to one's repertoire is when confidence is high due to success and executing new things become easier. 

 

Most Indian bowlers, past or present, barring Bumrah and peak Shami, are or have been very one dimensional bowlers. But nobody cares during their short in-form stints and then they get found out. And then people criticize or lose hope. 

 

There is a reason why India has never, and I mean never, produced an ATG bowler, and this is the reason. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

It is bashing. How often do you see such threads when one is doing well?

 

Nothing wrong with his repertoire for LOIs. No one has called him Test bowler anyway.

 

Look at the thread starter lol  That will give you the answer. Basically jealous of him owning  Babar/Rizwan/Dekock/Rilley russow with new balls.  He swung more than any bowler in the world T20.  A guy who was originally picked to be a death bowler proved he had more in his armory. Pleasant surprise.

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I don't agree at all. 

 

Umran was one of the highest wicket takers in this IPL ... but we discussed over snd over again how he needs to improve his stock ball, his lines and the height of his bouncers.

 

Same here with Arshdeep.

 

The time to improve and add to one's repertoire is when confidence is high due to success and executing new things become easier. 

 

Most Indian bowlers, past or present, barring Bumrah and peak Shami, are or have been very one dimensional bowlers. But nobody cares during their short in-form stints and then they get found out. And then people criticize or lose hope. 

 

There is a reason why India has never, and I mean never, produced an ATG bowler, and this is the reason. 

 

I don't recall such thread about Umran or anyone else. Infact some are hyped even before they have played for India,

 

This thread is not about fine tuning his skills.

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

I don't recall such thread about Umran or anyone else. Infact some are hyped even before they have played for India,

 

This thread is not about fine tuning his skills.

 

 

This thread is by a Padosi poster.

 

And it is not fine-tuning but a major point.

 

 

[vishalvirsingh]

9 hours ago, the don said:

So while everyone plays safe. I will make myself vulnerable to ridicule and abuse but i have a feeling that Arshdeep will turn out to be another Bhuvi in the long run. Good new ball skills but there is something missing, he is doing so well but still missing that sauce, that something.

you are spot on- 

mohsin khan is faster than arsh, khaleel swings and is faster than arsh,even yash dayal can challenge him. i guess even mukesh chowdhary is faster than arshdeep.

 

so either mohsin/khaleel/yash dayal/mukesh chowdhary among the left armers will replace him very soon.

arsh gets bounce due to his height and if he does not increase his speed , he wont be a long stay for India.

 

 

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I don't agree at all. 

 

Umran was one of the highest wicket takers in this IPL ... but we discussed over snd over again how he needs to improve his stock ball, his lines and the height of his bouncers.

 

Same here with Arshdeep.

 

The time to improve and add to one's repertoire is when confidence is high due to success and executing new things become easier. 

 

Most Indian bowlers, past or present, barring Bumrah and peak Shami, are or have been very one dimensional bowlers. But nobody cares during their short in-form stints and then they get found out. And then people criticize or lose hope. 

 

There is a reason why India has never, and I mean never, produced an ATG bowler, and this is the reason. 

Srinath and Zaheer Khan were considered world no 2 bowlers at least at their Peak.

 

i remember they used to get 1 wicket at least in every spell in Test cricket. remember ganguly begged srinath to come back from retirement and play for India a little longer - you can guess , how great srinath was Or how good srinath was.

ZAK wasconsidered a very dangerous bowler all over the world and some batsman like South african captain and others could not play 6 balls against him.

Woh KEH ke Leta tha . 

Zak and srinath were our All time great Pacers as famous as STARC and Cummins today and they also made their name as big as Brett Lee.

 

among fast bowlers - zak and srinath got as much respect as the Best of fast bowlers. that's why i am surprised why are they not coaching Indian team.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Srinath and Zaheer Khan were considered world no 2 bowlers at least at their Peak.

 

i remember they used to get 1 wicket at least in every spell in Test cricket. remember ganguly begged srinath to come back from retirement and play for India a little longer - you can guess , how great srinath was Or how good srinath was.

ZAK wasconsidered a very dangerous bowler all over the world and some batsman like South african captain and others could not play 6 balls against him.

Woh KEH ke Leta tha . 

Zak and srinath were our All time great Pacers as famous as STARC and Cummins today and they also made their name as big as Brett Lee.

 

among fast bowlers - zak and srinath got as much respect as the Best of fast bowlers. that's why i am surprised why are they not coaching Indian team.

 

 

Zaheer averaged almost 33 in test cricket. That is not an ATG pacer.  That is not even a good pacer level. That is borderline poor.

 

Srinath was a very good pacer. My favorite Indian pacer before Bumrah came. But again not ATG level.

 

At the end of the day one is judged by actual performances and results.

 

If Bumrah can continue in this vein, averaging around 21 now, then he will be our first ATG pacer.

 

 

[goose]

better get a smaller turban then

[Vijy]

he is quite limited, but is a better bet than some of our seniors. at the least, he should be in reckoning in LOIs in swinging conditions.

[Clarke]

Say what, he's not the next Akram ? Without him we'd be struggling for Irfan Pathan level bowling in the WT20 cup. Having good swing, yorker and bouncer is good enough for most T20 bowlers. 

[vvvslaxman]

32 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Say what, he's not the next Akram ? Without him we'd be struggling for Irfan Pathan level bowling in the WT20 cup. Having good swing, yorker and bouncer is good enough for most T20 bowlers. 

 

Sam curran is an example. 

[prudent_kreeda]

We need to understand that he has worked on skills required for T20 success . Hence he is a better fit for T20s . Most probably he will mostly play in T20s and some ODIs unless there is dramatic improvement . 

Might be wrong to compare him to some one like Umran , Tyagi who have more higher ceiling if they do not get major injury scare.

[Clarke]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Sam curran is an example. 

But but Mark wood is orgasmic to watch 

 

I'm not against better bowling, but don't want good to be the enemy of the best in any phase of life.

[Majestic]

High ceiling is an overrated term. Not all whom we terms as high ceiling players at young age are able to reach that high ceiling to begin with.

 

Rohit took years to reach that high ceiling but he didn't stayed there for long while Rahul never really reached that high ceiling. 

[Vk1]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:49 AM, rkt.india said:

Hit the deck doesn't just mean Bowling bouncers. Here is an example of hit the deck bowling. Not bowling bouncers but hitting the deck at short of length.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/vZMaIQJxwMA?feature=share

just curious can a hit the deck bowler ( from good/ short length ) also bowl it skiddy at will to hit the stumps? something we see with Umesh/Shami in test matches only in India 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

High ceiling is an overrated term. Not all whom we terms as high ceiling players at young age are able to reach that high ceiling to begin with.

 

Rohit took years to reach that high ceiling but he didn't stayed there for long while Rahul never really reached that high ceiling. 

 

 

Rohit wasn't a player with a high ceiling.

 

His front foot off stump game was below par for most part of his career.  And this aspect is the basis of solid batting.

 

It was not a chink in his armour that he suddenly developed. It was never there to start with and something he developed at a passable level after years of struggle. 

 

Atleast 5 or 5 aspects have to be checked gor both bowlers and batsmen to decide if they have high ceiling and having just flair is not enough.

 

 

 

 

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Rohit wasn't a player with a high ceiling.

 

His front foot off stump game was below par for most part of his career.  And this aspect is the basis of solid batting.

 

It was not a chink in his armour that he suddenly developed. It was never there to start with and something he developed at a passable level after years of struggle. 

 

Atleast 5 or 5 aspects have to be checked gor both bowlers and batsmen to decide if they have high ceiling and having just flair is not enough.

 

 

 

 

He was rated pretty highly in his young days though. Just to put things in context, this is what Virat said about Rohit Sharma when he burst the scene in one of the interviews to Gaurav Kapoor.

 

 

Coming to your point about the 5 of 5 aspects, that's what players have to work on. If Arshdeep works on all of them, he will be good. He doesn't necessarily has to clock 145 to have a good all format career.

 

 

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He was rated pretty highly in his young days though. Just to put things in context, this is what Virat said about Rohit Sharma when he burst the scene in one of the interviews to Gaurav Kapoor.

 

 

 

 

Was not talking about people's opinions and talent. 

 

Was talking about having the potential to  develop a multi-condition and multi dimensional game ... which is the only way any player can have a high ceiling.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Coming to your point about the 5 or 6 aspects, that's what players have to work on. If Arshdeep works on all of them, he will be good. He doesn't necessarily has to clock 145 to have a good all format career.

 

 

 

I have never talked about Arshdeep having to clock 145 k, although it will be nice if he does.  He is a tall pacer and can succeed at 132 to 142 k even.

 

I talked about " the abity to extract life out of pitches with length balls " even if the ball is released at 132 k to 142 k or even less. 

 

This is the key to becoming a multi condition bowler, provided the pacer has one among pace in the air or ability to swing. All 3 abilities create ATGs but even 2 out of 3 will create a good pacer. Just 1 of these qualities will create a flash in the pan.

 

Working on this ability is what I talked about.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by express bowling

[Lone Wolf]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Was not talking about people's opinions and talent. 

 

Was talking about having the potential to  develop a multi-condition and multi dimensional game ... which is the only way any player can have a high ceiling.

 

 

 

I have never talked about Arshdeep having to clock 145 k, although it will be nice if he does.  He is a tall pacer and can succeed at 132 to 142 k even.

 

I talked about " the abity to extract life out of pitches with length balls " even if the ball is released at 132 k to 142 k or even less. 

 

This is the key to becoming a multi condition bowler, provided the pacer has one among pace in the air or ability to swing. All 3 abilities create ATGs but even 2 out of 3 will create a good pacer. Just 1 of these qualities will create a flash in the pan.

 

Working on this ability is what I talked about.

 

 

 

 

I think Arshdeep himself has become a tad floaty probably looking for swing all this time. 

He used to have that zip in his deliveries when he first made a debut this year vs Eng. 

Probably since coming from that injury he has become out & out swing bowler.