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Unpopular opinion- Arshdeep Singh does not have a particularly high ceiling.

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27 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He was rated pretty highly in his young days though. Just to put things in context, this is what Virat said about Rohit Sharma when he burst the scene in one of the interviews to Gaurav Kapoor.


 

 

 

 

Was not talking about people's opinions and talent. 

 

Was talking about having the potential to  develop a multi-condition and multi dimensional game ... which is the only way any player can have a high ceiling.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Coming to your point about the 5 or 6 aspects, that's what players have to work on. If Arshdeep works on all of them, he will be good. He doesn't necessarily has to clock 145 to have a good all format career.

 

 

 

I have never talked about Arshdeep having to clock 145 k, although it will be nice if he does.  He is a tall pacer and can succeed at 132 to 142 k even.

 

I talked about " the abity to extract life out of pitches with length balls " even if the ball is released at 132 k to 142 k or even less. 

 

This is the key to becoming a multi condition bowler, provided the pacer has one among pace in the air or ability to swing. All 3 abilities create ATGs but even 2 out of 3 will create a good pacer. Just 1 of these qualities will create a flash in the pan.

 

Working on this ability is what I talked about.

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Was not talking about people's opinions and talent. 

 

Was talking about having the potential to  develop a multi-condition and multi dimensional game ... which is the only way any player can have a high ceiling.

 

 

 

I have never talked about Arshdeep having to clock 145 k, although it will be nice if he does.  He is a tall pacer and can succeed at 132 to 142 k even.

 

I talked about " the abity to extract life out of pitches with length balls " even if the ball is released at 132 k to 142 k or even less. 

 

This is the key to becoming a multi condition bowler, provided the pacer has one among pace in the air or ability to swing. All 3 abilities create ATGs but even 2 out of 3 will create a good pacer. Just 1 of these qualities will create a flash in the pan.

 

Working on this ability is what I talked about.

 

 

 

 

I think Arshdeep himself has become a tad floaty probably looking for swing all this time. 

He used to have that zip in his deliveries when he first made a debut this year vs Eng. 

Probably since coming from that injury he has become out & out swing bowler. 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Lord said:

His four wickets today

 

Allen with an inswing( Bhuvi never bowls that length)

Conway with a slower one

Mitchell with a short one at 142k

Sodhi with a yorker.

 

As complete a skillset as you need in T20. That's enough for me,

 

He had the right ideas today.  Just that he missed the mark a few times. Otherwise he has the bowling smarts.  

 

India's matches with Arsh + Bhuvi together against all nations

 

arshbhuvi.jpg

 

India's matches with  Arsh + Bhuvi together excluding afghanistan/bangladesh

 

Capturesdsds.jpg

 

 

Against non-minnows Bhuvi is not even the 2nd highest wicket taker.

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22 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He had the right ideas today.  Just that he missed the mark a few times. Otherwise he has the bowling smarts.  

 

India's matches with Arsh + Bhuvi together against all nations

 

arshbhuvi.jpg

 

India's matches with  Arsh + Bhuvi together excluding afghanistan/bangladesh

 

Capturesdsds.jpg

 

 

Against non-minnows Bhuvi is not even the 2nd highest wicket taker.

 

did you exclude Ned,Zim etc?

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1 hour ago, Lord said:

His four wickets today

 

Allen with an inswing( Bhuvi never bowls that length)

Conway with a slower one

Mitchell with a short one at 142k

Sodhi with a yorker.

 

As complete a skillset as you need in T20. That's enough for me,

 

 

He lacks the biggest skillset as of today.  The hit the deck good length ball.

 

I call this the biggest one as it is usually the stock ball which is used much much more than other deliveries. Bouncers, yorkers and slower balls are variation deliveries. 

 

And it is why he was going at more than 10 runs an over till his 3rd over. Siraj removing 3 quick wickets and exposing the tail helped a lot.

 

He must must develop this delivery instead of thinking that his skillset is complete. 

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7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He lacks the biggest skillset as of today.  The hit the deck good length ball.

 

I call this the biggest one as it is usually the stock ball which is used much much more than other deliveries. Bouncers, yorkers and slower balls are variation deliveries. 

 

And it is why he was going at more than 10 runs an over till his 3rd over. Siraj removing 3 quick wickets and exposing the tail helped a lot.

 

He must must develop this delivery instead of thinking that his skillset is complete. 

 

I think it'll come as he becomes stronger. He does bang it in at times but has to bowl shorter to get bounce.

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24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He lacks the biggest skillset as of today.  The hit the deck good length ball.

 

I call this the biggest one as it is usually the stock ball which is used much much more than other deliveries. Bouncers, yorkers and slower balls are variation deliveries. 

 

And it is why he was going at more than 10 runs an over till his 3rd over. Siraj removing 3 quick wickets and exposing the tail helped a lot.

 

He must must develop this delivery instead of thinking that his skillset is complete. 

 

But that length won't work everywhere as we found Siraj was taken apart in Test matches. Napier pitch allowed such length.  He got the wicket of Mitchell due to pace. 142.2 kph.  He is taller than other bowlers. So he will get natural bounce too.  Compare with Bhuvi he never had hit the deck ball, never had good bouncer. 

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13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But that length won't work everywhere as we found Siraj was taken apart in Test matches. Napier pitch allowed such length.  He got the wicket of Mitchell due to pace. 142.2 kph.  He is taller than other bowlers. So he will get natural bounce too.  Compare with Bhuvi he never had hit the deck ball, never had good bouncer. 

Boobi does have back of length hit the deck ball and he gets bounce with that too and bowls with accuracy and that length is the reason he is economical in PP but that length without high pace isn't going to get a lot of wickets. For that, he will have to bowl a bit up and swing like Arshdeep does which he doesn't do anymore. His Target is to be economical rather than trying to pick wickets.

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58 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He lacks the biggest skillset as of today.  The hit the deck good length ball.

 

I call this the biggest one as it is usually the stock ball which is used much much more than other deliveries. Bouncers, yorkers and slower balls are variation deliveries. 

 

And it is why he was going at more than 10 runs an over till his 3rd over. Siraj removing 3 quick wickets and exposing the tail helped a lot.

 

He must must develop this delivery instead of thinking that his skillset is complete. 

 

It's one thing to lack one aspect, but he does makes up with others aspects. Ishant Sharma was a proper hit the deck bowler, but he did not succeed in white ball cricket because he lacked the game awareness, to outsmart a batter in a pressure situation. Arshdeep has the bowling acumen, that one aspect that you have been talking about this entire thread is something which is not far from his reach, it's a skill which can be developed or rather easily.

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10 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

 

It's one thing to lack one aspect, but he does makes up with others aspects. Ishant Sharma was a proper hit the deck bowler, but he did not succeed in white ball cricket because he lacked the game awareness, to outsmart a batter in a pressure situation. Arshdeep has the bowling acumen, that one aspect that you have been talking about this entire thread is something which is not far from his reach, it's a skill which can be developed or rather easily.

 

I am talking about that one aspect because it is the fundamental aspect of pace bowling. The go to ball when variations are failing. One can never make this aspect up with other things in the long run. 

 

Arshdeep is a tall bowler with wicket taking mindset .... which is why I really want him to be a complete bowler rather be a one season wonder.  I have seen too many pacers fade away due to lack of this aspect.

 

You will understand the difference if and when Arshdeep develops the deck hitting length ball. 

Edited by express bowling
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4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I am talking about that one aspect because it is the fundamental aspect of pace bowling. The go to ball when variations are failing. One can never make this aspect up with other things in the long run. 

 

Arshdeep is a tall bowler with wicket taking mindset .... which is why I really want him to be a complete bowler rather be a one season wonder.  I have seen too many pacers fade away due to lack of this aspect.

 

You will understand the difference if and when Arshdeep develops the deck hitting length ball. 

 

One thing that I really like about Arshdeep which is an asset and "accidentally" a variation is that he is a left handed bowling.

 

Just by default, he brings a variation to the Indian bowling line up.

 

As I know you know, that bringing this variety of bowling does not allow any batsmen to settle.

 

Without trying to be condescending  all the time about Boobi and Harshal one glaring issue aside from being trundlers is that batsmen are comfortable facing these "same" right handed bowlers. Now if one of these trundlers were left handed and we didnt have Arshdeep, it would be at least a decent variation.

 

IMO India CANNOT win a WC with Boobi and Harshal in the same team. 20 0vers from these two in a WC, teams could "realistically" get 180 off them.

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5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But that length won't work everywhere as we found Siraj was taken apart in Test matches. Napier pitch allowed such length.  He got the wicket of Mitchell due to pace. 142.2 kph.  He is taller than other bowlers. So he will get natural bounce too.  Compare with Bhuvi he never had hit the deck ball, never had good bouncer. 

His main achilles heel is his monotonous approach in the fist two overs need to attack bit more almost with same lengths at pace irrespective of conditions

Most of the times he floats at 128-134 range in his initial spells only  bends his back in last 9 to 10 deliveries

He hasn't faced terrible days as yet but once it happens it will be from the onset of his spells he needs to maximize his skills and performance
Temperament will be seen in the longer run

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

One thing that I really like about Arshdeep which is an asset and "accidentally" a variation is that he is a left handed bowling.

 

Just by default, he brings a variation to the Indian bowling line up.

 

As I know you know, that bringing this variety of bowling does not allow any batsmen to settle.

 

Without trying to be condescending  all the time about Boobi and Harshal one glaring issue aside from being trundlers is that batsmen are comfortable facing these "same" right handed bowlers. Now if one of these trundlers were left handed and we didnt have Arshdeep, it would be at least a decent variation.

 

IMO India CANNOT win a WC with Boobi and Harshal in the same team. 20 0vers from these two in a WC, teams could "realistically" get 180 off them.

not just arshdeep but also khaleel and mohsin.

 

we will play boobi, harshal, unadcutter, and dhawal since all 4 are so-called ARs

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