Pakistan does not want to come to India for 2023 WC

[khadekhademaaro]

Just now, First class said:

Only time will tell, keep your chest-thumping meanwhile. 

there was a time in 2016. What happened. No balls?

[First class]

Just now, khadekhademaaro said:

let ICC enforce it then. we can still pay of that loss to ICC.

What exactly your job is in BCCI ? 

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, First class said:

Only time will tell, keep your chest-thumping meanwhile. 

It is not chest thumping. It is reality and I don't want to hear any nonsense from that rat Rameez Raja . You should ask your chairman where was his jingoism when he was collecting paycheck from BCCI.

Edited November 28, 2022 by putrevus

[zen]

8 minutes ago, khadekhademaaro said:

Sure Pak has its friends. Play with your friends. So why the desperation to pull in India? What has changed. Any good thing you are hearing on Hindutva, Kashmir, Muslims in India? Please share here too.

 

Can you imagine Indian players playing in Pakistan and new channels talking all these "Nice" things 

 

Buddy, I don’t have too much interest in Pakistan.  I am more concerned with Indians who do more harm to India than what a Pakistan can.  For many Indians, Pakistan bashing is an avenue to show fake patriotism while they continue to engage in corruption, tax evasion, pollution, crimes, and so on. 

 

[khadekhademaaro]

24 minutes ago, First class said:

What exactly your job is in BCCI ? 

BCCI has made it clear, not traveling to Pakistan. If there are loss of revenues to ICC, it is between BCCI and ICC. Till now we have won that battle and I feel confident we will continue to win it.

 

I have no job in BCCI.

Edited November 28, 2022 by khadekhademaaro

[khadekhademaaro]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, I don’t have too much interest in Pakistan.  I am more concerned with Indians who do more harm to India than what a Pakistan can.  For many Indians, Pakistan bashing is an avenue to show fake patriotism while they continue to engage in corruption, tax evasion, pollution, crimes, and so on. 

 

Fair enough on your interest.  Although it is going to be a tough task to decide which bashing is the true patriotism and which is the fake one. Difficult lens to view it from.

[zen]

Just now, khadekhademaaro said:

Fair enough on your interest.  Although it is going to be a tough task to decide which bashing is the true patriotism and which is the fake one. Difficult lens to view it from.

Dawood used to raise Ind flag at Sharjah. That does not make him a patriot, imo. 
 

Cricket and Pakistan bashing is where many in India tend to display theur patriotism, while eating the country away like termites through pollution, population, discrimination, corruption, etc. India’s biggest enemy could be within its own borders!
 

 

[First class]

15 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, I don’t have too much interest in Pakistan.  I am more concerned with Indians who do more harm to India than what a Pakistan can.  For many Indians, Pakistan bashing is an avenue to show fake patriotism while they continue to engage in corruption, tax evasion, pollution, crimes, and so on. 

 

Unfortunately Pakistan also has its own ( huge ) share of hypocrites , people who pretend to be very religious but do every thing which  no religion would tell them to do. 

[khadekhademaaro]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Dawood used to raise Ind flag at Sharjah. That does not make him a patriot, imo. 
 

Cricket and Pakistan bashing is where many in India tend to display theur patriotism, while eating the country away like termites through pollution, population, discrimination, corruption, etc. India’s biggest enemy could be within its own borders!
 

 

 

Yes. But an average Indian citizen raising a flag in Sharjah could be doing it out of true patriotism. That is a moot point in this scenario. Pakistan is an established enemy state to India. It has been waging wars on India. It separated from India. Speaking against it should not be automatically construed as fake patriotism.

[zen]

15 minutes ago, First class said:

Unfortunately Pakistan also has its own ( huge ) share of hypocrites , people who pretend to be very religious but do every thing which  no religion would tell them to do. 

We in India say that Pak’s biggest enemy is its army which has only replaced the British. In fact, I had written a blog too a long time ago: 

 

https://711am.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/kashmir-a-land-that-should-never-have-been-a-problem/

 

 

But the same is also the case with India, where cricket and Pak bashing serve to feel patriotic, while steering away from creating an accountable and responsible population. 
 

Real India is where people struggle everyday for survival. I have employees in India who call me up frequently asking for help for medical emergencies. There are no medical benefits. One of my employees is extremely smart, if he had received proper education and backing, he had the potential to be a CEO. There are so many people with such potential being wasted away. 
 

For both countries, the bigger enemy is within its borders. Don’t fall into the trap of looking outward. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by zen

[First class]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

We in India say that Pak’s biggest enemy is its army which has only replaced the British. In fact, I had written a blog too a long time ago: 

 

https://711am.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/kashmir-a-land-that-should-never-have-been-a-problem/

 

 

But the same is also the case with India, where cricket and Pak bashing serve to feel patriotic, while steering away from creating an accountable and responsible population. 
 

Real India is where people struggle everyday for survival. I have employees in India who call me up frequently asking for help for medical emergencies. There are no medical benefits. One of my employees is extremely smart, if he had received proper education and backing, he had the potential to be a CEO. There are so many people with such potential being wasted away. 
 

For both countries, the bigger enemy is within its borders. Don’t fall into the trap of looking outward. 

You're a good writer , as are many on this forum . Forget about Pakistan army but many Pakistanis , including myself have an opinion on Kashmir issue which is different than yours . But, like many Pakistanis I'm sick and tired of Kashmir issue and this is not may favorite topic for discussion , particularly not a cricket forum. All I wish is this issue to be resolve peacefully and realistically and no one else other than people living in the disputed area should be given right to decide about their land.  You guys feel good about brining Baluchistan into the discussion which tells me about your lack of knowledge about the situation in Baluchistan .  Even in India , there are many states particularly in northeast and also in Punjab where there have been secession movements but I don't think they have big public support and there are democratically elected governments in those states , so I won;t take them seriously . 

Edited November 28, 2022 by First class

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, First class said:

no one else other than people living in the disputed area should be given right to decide about their land. 

Is that why you gave away some (major?) part of "Azad Kashmir" to China all those years back? Realistically speaking J&K cannot ever be truly neutral/independent even if it breaks away from India, or PoK from Pakistan. You know how China is & while I wouldn't trust Pak either, for me China is the biggest backstabber out there! I'd put faith in Pak 9/10 times over China even if you/I see each other as enemies. As for your point about Kashmir - the truth is if the leaders in both the countries wanted this resolved it could've been done at least 50 years back! The last close attempt was by my favorite PM ABV about 2 decades back. Keeping the issue simmering on a slow burner helps military in your country stay in power & it's a perpetual part of the election manifesto in India.

 

Yes, generally speaking the public on both sides is smart enough to understand that but every now & then they just get roiled into populist movements sometimes in the name of Jihad, J&K, Ram Mandir etc. And forget who the real enemy is - IMO the corrupt elites in power. But this isn't just an India/Pak thing - it's the same everywhere in the world, without any exception! You might debate the levels of corruption but that's just arguing semantics, like corruption in China/US results in trillions of dollars amassed by wealthy individuals/corporations among others while in our part of the world it's maybe 10% of that at best.

Edited November 28, 2022 by R!TTER

[khadekhademaaro]

10 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Is that why you gave away some (major?) part of "Azad Kashmir" to China all those years back?

 

"Azad"  khud to religion ke bediyon mein fans gaye, doosron ko azad karne chale hain

[zen]

1 hour ago, First class said:

You're a good writer , as are many on this forum . Forget about Pakistan army but many Pakistanis , including myself have an opinion on Kashmir issue which is different than yours . But, like many Pakistanis I'm sick and tired of Kashmir issue and this is not may favorite topic for discussion , particularly not a cricket forum. All I wish is this issue to be resolve peacefully and realistically and no one else other than people living in the disputed area should be given right to decide about their land.  You guys feel good about brining Baluchistan into the discussion which tells me about your lack of knowledge about the situation in Baluchistan .  Even in India , there are many states particularly in northeast and also in Punjab where there have been secession movements but I don't think they have big public support and there are democratically elected governments in those states , so I won;t take them seriously . 

 

The people of "disputed" region can be given the right BUT 

 

a) Pakistan has changed the demographics of the region. No Pakistani is supposed to be in the region, which includes Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. 

b) Pakistan has further divided the region into Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. While giving a portion of the area to China. 

c) Pakistan backed militants have further changed the demographics of the region by driving away the Pandits. 

 

Balochistan (in my blog) is discussed not only because it wants independence but also because of how it was (considered) forced to align with Pak. 

 

The questions here are a) why isn't Azad Kashmir and Northern Territories not given a plebiscite,  and b) since Pak is a believer in plebiscite (India is not), why hasn't that benefit been extended to Balochistan (irrespective of how it was acquired by Pak)? 

 

 

You do not need to answer them as the point is that this is how externally it would be seen. 

 

 

PS I have read the UN resolution documents (though a long time ago) and at that time, I even engaged with media folks urging them to not talk about J&K only but look at Kashmir issue as acquiring POK which includes Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. I also engaged with some channels to bring in a foreign based Pakistani origin person to talk on Indian channels. 

 

I try to work behind the scenes to drive changes when required. 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by zen

[First class]

2 hours ago, zen said:

 

The people of "disputed" region can be given the right BUT 

 

a) Pakistan has changed the demographics of the region. No Pakistani is supposed to be in the region, which includes Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. 

b) Pakistan has further divided the region into Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. While giving a portion of the area to China. 

c) Pakistan backed militants have further changed the demographics of the region by driving away the Pandits. 

 

Balochistan (in my blog) is discussed not only because it wants independence but also because of how it was (considered) forced to align with Pak. 

 

The questions here are a) why isn't Azad Kashmir and Northern Territories not given a plebiscite,  and b) since Pak is a believer in plebiscite (India is not), why hasn't that benefit been extended to Balochistan (irrespective of how it was acquired by Pak)? 

 

 

You do not need to answer them as the point is that this is how externally it would be seen. 

 

 

PS I have read the UN resolution documents (though a long time ago) and at that time, I even engaged with media folks urging them to not talk about J&K only but look at Kashmir issue as acquiring POK which includes Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. I also engaged with some channels to bring in a foreign based Pakistani origin person to talk on Indian channels. 

 

I try to work behind the scenes to drive changes when required. 

 

 

 

When you're done worrying about Blochistan , we need to review history of many states in India and how they wanted their future at the partition time ,

Presenting here just two of those states .

 

In an ideal word, all these states , should have referendum and let the people decide about their future. That includes Gilgit, all of the Kashmir and  Ladhakh.  

 

Sate of Junagarh  Annexation by India :

 

"In 1947, upon the independence and partition of India, the last Babi dynasty ruler of the state, Muhammad Mahabat Khanji III, decided to merge Junagarh into the newly formed Pakistan.  On 15 August 1947, the Nawab announced that Junagarh had acceded to Pakistan. On 16 September, the Government of Pakistan accepted the accession.  

India sent its military into Junagarh while the Nawab of Junagarh was in Pakistan and captured the state of Junagarh overthrowing Nawab and the rights of princely states. The Annexation of Junagarh into India led the Nawab Muhammad Mahabat Khan III of Junagarh (erstwhile Babi Nawab dynasty of Junagarh) left to live in Sindh, Pakistan.

 

State of Hyderabad : 

In 1947 India gained independence and Pakistan came into existence.  On 11 June 1947, the Nizam issued a declaration to the effect that he had decided not to participate in the Constituent Assembly of either Pakistan or India. 

On 21 August 1948, the Secretary-General of the Hyderabad Department of External Affairs requested the President of the United Nations' Security Council, under Article 35(2) of the United Nations Charter, to consider the "grave dispute, which, unless settled in accordance with international law and justice, is likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security".^{[43][non-primary source needed]}

On 4 September the Prime Minister of Hyderabad Mir Laiq Ali announced to the Hyderabad Assembly that a delegation was about to leave for Lake Success, headed by Moin Nawaz Jung.^[44] The Nizam also appealed, without success, to the British Labour Government and to the King for assistance, to fulfill their obligations and promises to Hyderabad by "immediate intervention". Hyderabad only had the support of Winston Churchill and the British Conservatives.^[ 

 

At 4 a.m. on 13 September 1948, India's Hyderabad Campaign, code-named "Operation Polo" by the Indian Army, began. Indian troops invaded Hyderabad from all points of the compass. On 13 September 1948, the Secretary-General of the Hyderabad Department of External Affairs in a cablegram informed the United Nations Security Council that Hyderabad was being invaded by Indian forces and that hostilities had broken out.

 

 

 

[zen]

25 minutes ago, First class said:

When you're done worrying about Blochistan , we need to review history of many states in India and how they wanted their future at the partition time ,

Presenting here just two of those states .

 

In an ideal word, all these states , should have referendum and let the people decide about their future. That includes Gilgit, all of the Kashmir and  Ladhakh.  

 

 

 

I know the history, the point is that Ind does NOT believe in plebiscite (Pak does think that Ind is opposed to it), Pak does therefore better to give those benefits to Baluchistan, and POK - Azad Kashmir & Gilgit-Baltistan. If I am not wrong, there is some type of movement in Sindh & Khyber Pakhtunkhwa too. 

 

As for me, I don't mind if any state wants to break away from India to become independent if it goes through the process nicely. Similarly, new states from countries like Pakistan are also welcome to join India if they want to … India-Pakistan themselves happened because of the British. If not for British, we could have had many countries in the subcon ... The world map has changed every 70 years or so. Nothing is permanent except change ... Currently,  I have issue with Kashmir mainly because of how many in the state go about their business including driving a section of people out of the state through militancy.  

 

The big reason as to why the Kashmir issue is still pending is because India has not shown much interest in POK. When it does, the issue could get settled. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by zen

[raki05]

12 hours ago, First class said:

I thought you're smart enough to know presence in the stadium matters less now-a-days. When it comes to overall viewership , on TV and online , which is the real source of revenue , Pakistan is only 2nd to India 

Can you provide that data or its just an assumption like previous one. If Pakistan was so crowd puller why Pakistani media rights sells on peanuts compared to bcci. Second only to India, your subscription rights are far behind eng and aus what are you talking about?

Edited November 29, 2022 by raki05

[dial_100]

You dont get to attack my city, my people, my armed forces, kill innocent people on our land and then show up and say "let's play cricket."

 

Agar thodi gairat bachi hai toh jaa, Dawood ke presence ka proof lekar aa, aur woh Lakwi ka voice sample bhej de, we will urge our govt to play with your team. If not then you are the same who support those terrorist.

 

buzz off.

[Sgattick10]