coffee_rules Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: It is extremely naive to think before the arrival of Gandhi we were going anywhere. He brought the most important factor - common people into the freedom struggle. British had found a way to keep a hold on Indian masses by false promises. So he was instrumental in breaking that mental hold. That theory originated in SA itself. 1857 proved people favored British over random Indian system or Mughal /Maratha planned spheres of influence. Princely states included. Lal Bal Pal no doubt laid the foundation but sheer impact which MaGa brought was too much. It is incorrect to say Freedom struggle started with MaGa but it is not wrong to say that he had the biggest impact than all his predecessors never had. It is clear that you are reading from British chronicles of 1857 (sepoy mutiny) and Marxist historians on MaGa. MaGa even 1933 was fighting for. Dominion stays for India under the British rule and not Independence. He convinced Indians to join British in 1918 WWI . It is only due to revolutionaries that the sampoorna swaraj or Independence movement took public discourse. Gandhi was looked in awe by Indians because of his fame he got from SA. 1857 was the first unified effort by Indians to drive out British. Some small kind of mutiny by the vast number of Indians in the British army triggered the war, with Moghul Sultan as the leader of the alliance. It failed mainly because many kingdoms stayed out of it as British crushed the resistance. But it gave rise to the feeling that British were not indigenous rulers unlike the kings, they taxed much more than the kings and sultans. You claimed that the people preferred British rule over Maratha-Moghul nexus, that’s a Brit narrative hogwash to rule India. Edited June 6, 2023 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: You are a complete joke man... Netaji's forces got a crushing defeat along with Japanese by British Indian army in Imphal. Further its a known fact if not for WW2... India won't have got its Independence till 1960's & even that's debatable. Gandhi was in constant touch with FDR who pressurized Churchill coz of Indian contribution in WW2. Though Churchill was prepared to not Give up at all. There were many factors at play. https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/07/gandhi-and-fdr-history-letter-from-indian-leader-to-roosevelt-in-1942.html Read it. It’s the INA trials and the resulting naval harbor mutiny was what hastened the exodus of British. Even after WWII they were reluctant to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 34 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: You are a complete joke man... Netaji's forces got a crushing defeat along with Japanese by British Indian army in Imphal. Further its a known fact if not for WW2... India won't have got its Independence till 1960's & even that's debatable. Gandhi was in constant touch with FDR who pressurized Churchill coz of Indian contribution in WW2. Though Churchill was prepared to not Give up at all. There were many factors at play. https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/07/gandhi-and-fdr-history-letter-from-indian-leader-to-roosevelt-in-1942.html Maybe I am - but you should learn to read. Check it out. It's from the horse's mouth. Not from an A-class pappu or his sycophants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) del... Edited June 6, 2023 by bharathh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) del Edited June 6, 2023 by bharathh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) del Edited June 6, 2023 by bharathh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Read it. It’s the INA trials and the resulting naval harbor mutiny was what hastened the exodus of British. Even after WWII they were reluctant to leave The INA may have been defeated - but it showed the British that the Indians could be organized to fight. Even the existing soldiers in the British Army of WW2 were no longer their so-called martial races (ppl that supported them during the 1857 rebellion) but people from all over India who didn't have the same loyalty to the crown. This made the British very nervous - especially after the devastation of WW2. Another armed insurrection would have put paid to them. Plus they were def anxious about the bad press they were getting around the way they took away food from India to feed their armies causing the Bengal famine and wrecking the local economy. Gandhi's satyagraha was getting us nowhere in terms of Independence. Unfortunately, that's what brainwashing by the Commie and Islamist education lobbies has led to. For Gandhi's role in the Moplah genocide, his actions after Direct Action Day in Bengal including the Naokhali riots itself disqualifies him as any sort of leader. I can totally understand why people like Godse felt that he needed to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 11 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Read it. It’s the INA trials and the resulting naval harbor mutiny was what hastened the exodus of British. Even after WWII they were reluctant to leave I very well know that... Although it was clear India was set to be free after WW2... There is difference between a hasty retreat & than those trials being directly responsible for Independence as Bharath guy claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 10 hours ago, bharathh said: The INA may have been defeated - but it showed the British that the Indians could be organized to fight. Even the existing soldiers in the British Army of WW2 were no longer their so-called martial races (ppl that supported them during the 1857 rebellion) but people from all over India who didn't have the same loyalty to the crown. This made the British very nervous - especially after the devastation of WW2. Another armed insurrection would have put paid to them. Plus they were def anxious about the bad press they were getting around the way they took away food from India to feed their armies causing the Bengal famine and wrecking the local economy. Gandhi's satyagraha was getting us nowhere in terms of Independence. Unfortunately, that's what brainwashing by the Commie and Islamist education lobbies has led to. For Gandhi's role in the Moplah genocide, his actions after Direct Action Day in Bengal including the Naokhali riots itself disqualifies him as any sort of leader. I can totally understand why people like Godse felt that he needed to die. As I WW2 had made British control over India untenable. Indian support to British armed forces & being the largest volunteer force had its impact as well. Debate ain't about Godse. Overall MaGa impact >>>>>Netaji that's the whole point. Netaji probably wouldn't have survived either way as the Axis Purge continued after WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: As I WW2 had made British control over India untenable. Indian support to British armed forces & being the largest volunteer force had its impact as well. Debate ain't about Godse. Overall MaGa impact >>>>>Netaji that's the whole point. Netaji probably wouldn't have survived either way as the Axis Purge continued after WW2. You are welcome to your opinion. Doesn't make it fact though. Even after hearing it from the PM of UK who gave independence to India if you feel that you are right, good on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, bharathh said: You are welcome to your opinion. Doesn't make it fact though. Even after hearing it from the PM of UK who gave independence to India if you feel that you are right, good on you. Churchill wanted to hang Gandhi by the Red fort or Trample him with Elephants when Roosevelt was trying to persuade him for Indian Independence. He was by far most hated by Churchill. Netaji ain't coming closer to it. He was put to rest in Imphal after the crushing defeat. INA was irrelevant until the Trials. There isn't even a comparison in popularity too. Your RSS books ofc don't wanna point that out. Edited June 7, 2023 by Lone Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 25 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Churchill wanted to hang Gandhi by the Red fort or Trample him with Elephants when Roosevelt was trying to persuade him for Indian Independence. He was by far most hated by Churchill. Netaji ain't coming closer to it. He was put to rest in Imphal after the crushing defeat. INA was irrelevant until the Trials. There isn't even a comparison in popularity too. Your RSS books ofc don't wanna point that out. RSS books. Sad retort. You can do better. Gandhi was a mosquito buzzing around their ears. An annoyance. Anyways, you are welcome to your opinion. I don't expect you to look beyond what you feel is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bharathh said: RSS books. Sad retort. You can do better. Gandhi was a mosquito buzzing around their ears. An annoyance. Anyways, you are welcome to your opinion. I don't expect you to look beyond what you feel is correct. Lol British certainly didn't care about a small a** rebellion with bunch of enormous resources & a sizable junk of Indian populace still behind them even in the 1930's princely states included. Sometime bother to read the books of Dr Karan Singh when he was the prince of JK &, Gandhi's visit... He told there was not a single Indian soul more popular & charismatic than him in those times It was Gandhi who united the masses or spread the message of a unified resistance. You may not like his methods but they proved effective in the end. Praising traitor Godse is straight outta RSS playbook. Edited June 7, 2023 by Lone Wolf Lord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Lol British certainly didn't care about a small a** rebellion with bunch of enormous resources & a sizable junk of Indian populace still behind them even in the 1930's princely states included. Sometime bother to read the books of Dr Karan Singh when he was the prince of JK &, Gandhi's visit... He told there was not a single Indian soul more popular & charismatic than him in those times It was Gandhi who united the masses or spread the message of a unified resistance. You may not like his methods but they proved effective in the end. Praising traitor Godse is straight outta RSS playbook. Really? They didn't care? And yet thier PM at the time said he was one of the main reasons why the British let go. Why would he make such a statement about so small time warlord according to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Lol British certainly didn't care about a small a** rebellion with bunch of enormous resources & a sizable junk of Indian populace still behind them even in the 1930's princely states included. Sometime bother to read the books of Dr Karan Singh when he was the prince of JK &, Gandhi's visit... He told there was not a single Indian soul more popular & charismatic than him in those times It was Gandhi who united the masses or spread the message of a unified resistance. You may not like his methods but they proved effective in the end. Praising traitor Godse is straight outta RSS playbook. A leader who allowed if not encouraged genocide is no Mahatma in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, bharathh said: Really? They didn't care? And yet thier PM at the time said he was one of the main reasons why the British let go. Why would he make such a statement about so small time warlord according to you? First of all there is lot of doubt around that Chakarborty interview... As when Atlee came to India after 1947 he didn't talk about Bose. Also he wasn't the PM when AHF under Netaji operated but Churchill was. He didn't seem to care about them at all. But he sure as hell hated Gandhi to every freakin bone in his body. Although I never said trials never had a impact but Game was already over by then. It was a mere formality & it only served to expedite the process Edited June 8, 2023 by Lone Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 @Lone Wolf for your listening pleasure… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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