1st Test Nagpur, February 09 - 13, 2023, Australia tour of India - PREMATCH

[SRT100]

18 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

With Axar they can bat till 10 (Shami) only Siraj is a muck with bat

If only we could replace KL with Axar instead. I would have more faith in us fielding 6 bowlers and 5 batsman.

[Nikhil_cric]

The key to beating Australia in spinning Asian conditions is left arm spin. They play offies and leg spinners much better. 

 

If Jadeja is bowling well, we need to get both Jaddu and Axar in. OZ cant play them well. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[R!TTER]

37 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The key to beating Australia in spinning Asian conditions is left arm spin

No the key to beating them is Jadeja, check his stats vs any other SLA in the last 50+ years!

 

38 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

They play offies and leg spinners much better. 

No Harbahajan did really well against them on flat pitches without DRS, so did Kumble. I don't want to put Ashwin down too much but the fact is had Harbahajan played on these surfaces against some of these chumps with DRS his numbers would also look a lot better! His batting could be much worse though.

[SRT100]

40 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The key to beating Australia in spinning Asian conditions is left arm spin. They play offies and leg spinners much better. 

 

If Jadeja is bowling well, we need to get both Jaddu and Axar in. OZ cant play them well. 

Its so frustrating as I would rather us play 6 bowlers vs Australia if it means KL or Kohli are out of the team, our chances improve significantly.

 

Having Ash, Jaddu, Axar and Kuldeep on slow low turners are unplayable for SENA teams. Imagine the terrifying thought of having Axar at one end, Jaddu at the other bowling. Youre a sitting duck.

 

With KL and Kohli both in the team expect one if not both to contribute no more than a single digit run contribution for the match. They are as bad if not worse than underperforming SENA batsman in the subcontinent.  Walking wickets.

[SRT100]

I hope India are mentally prepared for this series, expect Australia to be hostile with sledging and intimidation.

[R!TTER]

Arguably the GOAT spinner against them 

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1950

Type of bowler (by hand) left-arm bowler

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2021	12	22	3198	1188	63	6/63	9/178	18.85	2.22	50.7	3	0
HMRKB Herath (SL)	1999-2016	11	19	3135	1494	66	7/64	13/145	22.63	2.85	47.5	6	1
RG Nadkarni (IND)	1959-1968	11	17	2217	739	30	6/91	11/122	24.63	2.00	73.9	3	1
BS Bedi (IND)	1968-1978	12	23	4033	1395	56	7/98	10/194	24.91	2.07	72.0	5	1
Iqbal Qasim (PAK)	1976-1988	13	24	3957	1490	57	7/49	11/118	26.14	2.25	69.4	2	1
JH Wardle (ENG)	1953-1956	8	15	1661	632	24	5/79	8/130	26.33	2.28	69.2	1	0
DL Underwood (ENG)	1968-1980	29	53	8000	2770	105	7/50	11/215	26.38	2.07	76.1	4	2
DR Doshi (IND)	1979-1981	9	17	2930	1070	38	6/103	8/103	28.15	2.19	77.1	2	0
PL Harris (SA)	2008-2009	6	12	1660	782	24	6/127	9/161	32.58	2.82	69.1	1	0
RJ Shastri (IND)	1985-1992	9	15	2446	883	26	4/45	8/179	33.96	2.16	94.0	0	0
GAR Lock (ENG)	1953-1961	13	24	3442	1128	31	5/45	7/81	36.38	1.96	111.0	1	0
AL Valentine (WI)	1951-1961	13	21	3941	1573	43	6/102	8/153	36.58	2.39	91.6	3	0
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	1997-2011	19	32	4990	2421	66	7/87	12/149	36.68	2.91	75.6	6	1
PH Edmonds (ENG)	1975-1987	13	23	3516	1338	36	5/28	6/92	37.16	2.28	97.6	1	0
PCR Tufnell (ENG)	1990-2001	12	20	3230	1373	36	7/66	11/93	38.13	2.55	89.7	2	1
KA Maharaj (SA)	2016-2023	9	15	1774	994	22	5/123	9/225	45.18	3.36	80.6	1	0
AF Giles (ENG)	2001-2006	9	14	1922	1139	20	4/101	6/191	56.95	3.55	96.1	0	0

 

 

Admittedly a small sample size but still -

 

Opposition team Australia

Home or away away (home of opposition)  or neutral venue

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1950

Type of bowler (by hand) left-arm bowler

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja (IND)	2018-2021	4	6	759	305	14	4/62	5/127	21.78	2.41	54.2	0	0
JH Wardle (ENG)	1954-1955	4	7	566	229	10	5/79	8/130	22.90	2.42	56.6	1	0
RJ Shastri (IND)	1985-1992	6	10	1518	500	19	4/45	8/179	26.31	1.97	79.8	0	0
Zulfiqar Babar (PAK)	2014-2014	2	4	694	369	14	5/74	7/155	26.35	3.19	49.5	2	0
BS Bedi (IND)	1968-1978	7	14	2391	963	35	5/55	10/194	27.51	2.41	68.3	3	1
Iqbal Qasim (PAK)	1976-1981	5	10	1416	609	21	4/44	7/148	29.00	2.58	67.4	0	0
DL Underwood (ENG)	1970-1980	14	27	4190	1574	50	7/113	11/215	31.48	2.25	83.8	1	1
AL Valentine (WI)	1951-1961	10	17	3101	1224	38	6/102	8/153	32.21	2.36	81.6	3	0
HMRKB Herath (SL)	2012-2013	3	5	808	407	12	5/95	7/142	33.91	3.02	67.3	1	0
SJ Benn (WI)	2009-2009	3	5	918	408	11	5/155	5/206	37.09	2.66	83.4	1	0
PH Edmonds (ENG)	1978-1987	6	11	1674	565	15	3/45	5/158	37.66	2.02	111.6	0	0
PL Harris (SA)	2008-2009	3	6	815	387	10	3/84	5/155	38.70	2.84	81.5	0	0
DR Doshi (IND)	1981-1981	3	5	1092	440	11	3/49	6/195	40.00	2.41	99.2	0	0
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	1997-2011	12	19	3104	1487	37	6/87	8/229	40.18	2.87	83.8	3	0
PCR Tufnell (ENG)	1990-1995	8	14	2086	787	19	5/61	6/156	41.42	2.26	109.7	1	0
MS Panesar (ENG)	2006-2013	5	8	962	636	13	5/92	8/237	48.92	3.96	74.0	1	0

 

Ignore Zulfi in UAE. Slightly surprising that drunken master has such a great record against them away 

Edited February 3, 2023 by R!TTER

[Nikhil_cric]

38 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

No the key to beating them is Jadeja, check his stats vs any other SLA in the last 50+ years!

 

No Harbahajan did really well against them on flat pitches without DRS, so did Kumble. I don't want to put Ashwin down too much but the fact is had Harbahajan played on these surfaces against some of these chumps with DRS his numbers would also look a lot better! His batting could be much worse though.

Harbhajan did well against them in one series. After that, he averaged 30 against them even in India. Besides, I'm talking about the current side. In the last decade, they average something like sub 22 in Asia against left arm spin. 

 

Herath destroyed them in 2016. Last time around, Prabath Jayasuriya leveled the series after OZ took 1-0 lead. On ultra flat pitches in Pakistan, I remember Australia having 1 collapse against a mediocre SLA in Nauman Ali. 

 

It's not just Jadeja. Quality SLA's can all take apart that batting lineup.  If Axar bowls like he did against England in 2021 and we have spinning pitches, Australia will struggle.

[Nikhil_cric]

41 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

Its so frustrating as I would rather us play 6 bowlers vs Australia if it means KL or Kohli are out of the team, our chances improve significantly.

 

Having Ash, Jaddu, Axar and Kuldeep on slow low turners are unplayable for SENA teams. Imagine the terrifying thought of having Axar at one end, Jaddu at the other bowling. Youre a sitting duck.

 

With KL and Kohli both in the team expect one if not both to contribute no more than a single digit run contribution for the match. They are as bad if not worse than underperforming SENA batsman in the subcontinent.  Walking wickets.

We need Mayank Aggarwal more than KL or Kohli. Spin bashers are a must. Gonna miss Pant big time. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[R!TTER]

30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Harbhajan did well against them in one series. After that, he averaged 30 against them even in India. Besides, I'm talking about the current side. In the last decade, they average something like sub 22 in Asia against left arm spin. 

 

Herath destroyed them in 2016. Last time around, Prabath Jayasuriya leveled the series after OZ took 1-0 lead. On ultra flat pitches in Pakistan, I remember Australia having 1 collapse against a mediocre SLA in Nauman Ali. 

 

It's not just Jadeja. Quality SLA's can all take apart that batting lineup.  If Axar bowls like he did against England in 2021 and we have spinning pitches, Australia will struggle.

Those were extremely flat wickets, come on you know that too, then in the 2004 series only Mumbai was a "raging" turner whilst 2008 & 2010 were again super flat wickets! You're also forgetting how DRS has helped spinners immensely 

 

Check Herath's stats in 2000's then, did he suddenly become a world class SLA 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=6600;type=series

 

  

30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

If Axar bowls like he did against England in 2021 and we have spinning pitches, Australia will struggle.

So you need spinning pitches then, right? Jadeja's done well against them everywhere! To put in into context check the best visiting spinners in Oz 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Opposition team Australia

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1950

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Showing 1 - 42 of 42

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
JC Laker (ENG)	1958-1959	4	7	1022	318	15	5/107	7/117	21.20	1.86	68.1	1	0
RA Jadeja (IND)	2018-2021	4	6	759	305	14	4/62	5/127	21.78	2.41	54.2	0	0
G Miller (ENG)	1978-1983	12	21	2569	809	36	5/44	6/57	22.47	1.88	71.3	1	0
UDU Chandana (SL)	2004-2004	2	4	370	270	12	5/101	10/210	22.50	4.37	30.8	2	1
JH Wardle (ENG)	1954-1955	4	7	566	229	10	5/79	8/130	22.90	2.42	56.6	1	0
RJ Shastri (IND)	1985-1992	6	10	1518	500	19	4/45	8/179	26.31	1.97	79.8	0	0
BS Bedi (IND)	1968-1978	7	14	2391	963	35	5/55	10/194	27.51	2.41	68.3	3	1
HJ Tayfield (SA)	1952-1953	5	9	2228	843	30	7/81	13/165	28.10	2.27	74.2	2	1
NS Yadav (IND)	1981-1986	5	9	1769	647	23	5/99	8/118	28.13	2.19	76.9	1	0
Iqbal Qasim (PAK)	1976-1981	5	10	1416	609	21	4/44	7/148	29.00	2.58	67.4	0	0
PM Such (ENG)	1998-1999	2	4	701	323	11	5/81	6/158	29.36	2.76	63.7	1	0
BS Chandrasekhar (IND)	1967-1978	7	13	1956	878	29	6/52	12/104	30.27	2.69	67.4	3	1
EAS Prasanna (IND)	1967-1978	8	15	2561	965	31	6/104	8/218	31.12	2.26	82.6	2	0
DL Underwood (ENG)	1970-1980	14	27	4190	1574	50	7/113	11/215	31.48	2.25	83.8	1	1
JE Emburey (ENG)	1978-1988	10	20	3459	1124	35	7/78	7/140	32.11	1.94	98.8	2	0
AL Valentine (WI)	1951-1961	10	17	3101	1224	38	6/102	8/153	32.21	2.36	81.6	3	0
LR Gibbs (WI)	1961-1976	14	25	5737	1970	59	5/66	8/112	33.38	2.06	97.2	4	0
Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK)	1990-1999	4	8	1334	739	22	5/95	9/186	33.59	3.32	60.6	2	0
HMRKB Herath (SL)	2012-2013	3	5	808	407	12	5/95	7/142	33.91	3.02	67.3	1	0
Saqlain Mushtaq (PAK)	1995-1999	4	6	1043	478	14	6/46	8/176	34.14	2.74	74.5	1	0
DA Allen (ENG)	1963-1966	5	8	1592	516	14	4/47	6/89	36.85	1.94	113.7	0	0
SJ Benn (WI)	2009-2009	3	5	918	408	11	5/155	5/206	37.09	2.66	83.4	1	0
PH Edmonds (ENG)	1978-1987	6	11	1674	565	15	3/45	5/158	37.66	2.02	111.6	0	0
A Kumble (IND)	1999-2008	10	18	3204	1849	49	8/141	12/279	37.73	3.46	65.3	4	1
PL Harris (SA)	2008-2009	3	6	815	387	10	3/84	5/155	38.70	2.84	81.5	0	0
DR Doshi (IND)	1981-1981	3	5	1092	440	11	3/49	6/195	40.00	2.41	99.2	0	0
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	1997-2011	12	19	3104	1487	37	6/87	8/229	40.18	2.87	83.8	3	0
FJ Titmus (ENG)	1962-1975	14	23	4553	1493	37	7/79	7/79	40.35	1.96	123.0	2	0
JG Bracewell (NZ)	1980-1987	8	15	1726	688	17	3/91	5/142	40.47	2.39	101.5	0	0
Danish Kaneria (PAK)	2004-2010	5	10	1536	974	24	7/188	8/204	40.58	3.80	64.0	3	0
PL Symcox (SA)	1993-1998	5	8	1236	497	12	4/69	5/159	41.41	2.41	103.0	0	0
PCR Tufnell (ENG)	1990-1995	8	14	2086	787	19	5/61	6/156	41.42	2.26	109.7	1	0
R Ashwin (IND)	2011-2021	10	18	3364	1644	39	4/55	6/149	42.15	2.93	86.2	0	0
EE Hemmings (ENG)	1982-1991	5	10	2013	768	18	3/53	6/184	42.66	2.28	111.8	0	0
R Illingworth (ENG)	1963-1971	8	15	1376	480	11	3/39	4/55	43.63	2.09	125.0	0	0
MS Panesar (ENG)	2006-2013	5	8	962	636	13	5/92	8/237	48.92	3.96	74.0	1	0
S Ramadhin (WI)	1951-1961	7	11	2155	833	17	5/90	6/165	49.00	2.31	126.7	1	0
GP Swann (ENG)	2010-2013	8	16	2167	1157	22	5/91	7/161	52.59	3.20	98.5	1	0
Abdul Qadir (PAK)	1983-1984	5	6	1317	732	12	5/166	5/166	61.00	3.33	109.7	1	0
CL Hooper (WI)	1988-1997	14	24	2198	953	15	4/75	5/138	63.53	2.60	146.5	0	0
M Muralidaran (ICC/SL)	1995-2007	5	7	1572	905	12	3/55	5/157	75.41	3.45	131.0	0	0
Yasir Shah (PAK)	2016-2019	5	7	1373	1074	12	4/205	4/205	89.50	4.69	114.4	0	0

Edited February 3, 2023 by R!TTER

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

No the key to beating them is Jadeja, check his stats vs any other SLA in the last 50+ years!

 

No Harbahajan did really well against them on flat pitches without DRS, so did Kumble. I don't want to put Ashwin down too much but the fact is had Harbahajan played on these surfaces against some of these chumps with DRS his numbers would also look a lot better! His batting could be much worse though.

Harbhajan would have had to remodel his action to survive international cricket though, that process didn't end well for Ajmal and Hafeez. And we know how deadly the Pakistani chuckers were in first half of 2010s. Tough for Bhajji because he was chucking even his normal offies in his last few seasons of IPL.

[R!TTER]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Australia is practicing against Ashwin impersonator :)

 

 

 

Well who's paying for this & are the guys called up skipping important/FC games for their "practice" 

[R!TTER]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Harbhajan would have had to remodel his action to survive international cricket though, that process didn't end well for Ajmal and Hafeez. And we know how deadly the Pakistani chuckers were in first half of 2010s. Tough for Bhajji because he was chucking even his normal offies in his last few seasons of IPL.

Maybe or maybe not, in 2001 series he got most of his wickets though the spitting ball which jumped from good lengths. Around 2001 when he came back he was great with wickets through bat/pad or slips - with DRS no *ing way Hayden/Cook/KP sweep their way to multiple hundreds in India! His bowling deteriorated only after he tried the poisonous pill of the doosra, for me his action was pretty clean just prior to that. Of course today he might've been banned alongside the greatest javelin thrower the world has ever seen.

 

The point is flat wickets/DRS impacted his bowling avg overall, whether you take that as an affront against Ashwin/Jadeja doesn't really matter - they are undeniable facts! Which is also to say that the likes of Hayden, Clarke, Hussey & even Ponting (post 2004) scored lots in India because of flat tracks/no DRS otherwise there's a good chance we wouldn't lose the 2004 series either, conversely we might've lost the 2001 series with DRS 

Edited February 3, 2023 by R!TTER

[speedracer]

Just fkn go with this lineup from 6 to 11 fkn

Fkn cmon you fks 

 

Sundar at 6

Jaddu at 7

Axar at 8

Ash at 9

Siraj at 10

Sexy shami at 11 or perhaps prasidh or sexy umesh as the great dumb dravid would say. 

 

Fkn do it you dumb thots. 

[Gollum]

38 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Maybe or maybe not, in 2001 series he got most of his wickets though the spitting ball which jumped from good lengths. Around 2001 when he came back he was great with wickets through bat/pad or slips - with DRS no *ing way Hayden/Cook/KP sweep their way to multiple hundreds in India! His bowling deteriorated only after he tried the poisonous pill of the doosra, for me his action was pretty clean just prior to that. Of course today he might've been banned alongside the greatest javelin thrower the world has ever seen.

 

The point is flat wickets/DRS impacted his bowling avg overall, whether you take that as an affront against Ashwin/Jadeja doesn't really matter - they are undeniable facts! Which is also to say that the likes of Hayden, Clarke, Hussey & even Ponting (post 2004) scored lots in India because of flat tracks/no DRS otherwise there's a good chance we wouldn't lose the 2004 series either, conversely we might've lost the 2001 series with DRS 

He was called for chucking in 1998 as well, rules far lenient back then.

Doosra also was a psychological ploy to plant seeds in heads of batsmen, Harbhajan just like Murali/Ajmal had that edge with his illegal action. Anyway towards the end he was chucking his normal offies as well.

Hair was right all along.

[SRT100]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

We need Mayank Aggarwal more than KL or Kohli. Spin bashers are a must. Gonna miss Pant big time. 

Missing Pant than Iyer is arguably the two best batsman in our team, couple that with walking wickets in KL and Kohli and its an absolute disaster.

 

Thats India effectively 2 wickets down for no runs.

[R!TTER]

He was cleared in 2000 or just before the Oz series, you're also conveniently ignoring with DRS they would not need the doosra! Because umpires would give more lbw's & batters would use less sweeps & maybe stay in the crease a lot more as well.

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Anyway towards the end he was chucking his normal offies as well.

He first started using it around 2004-05 or slightly later, he was pretty good without it as well if you see his record from 2001-04 in tests.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

He was cleared in 2000 or just before the Oz series, you're also conveniently ignoring with DRS they would not need the doosra! Because umpires would give more lbw's & batters would use less sweeps & maybe stay in the crease a lot more as well

All chuckers of that era were cleared, PCness, racism allegations yada yada.

 

The bolded bit is hilarious though, it's like them Pakistanis saying their players used to fix because they were denied IPL riches. Using your logic, any wrong can be justified. And not like these cheats stopped chucking with advent of DRS in the previous decade. 

 

That famous Pak Eng whitewash in 2011 or 12 in UAE saw the most blatant chucking in cricket history despite DRS and turning pitches.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Gollum

[R!TTER]

You're the one who brought up chucking & how he would not be playing today if he was checked - he was cleared in 2000/01 & didn't use doosra for a good 4-5 years because he didn't need to! And don't compare Chuckmal/Murali or any number of blatant *ers with Harbhajan! And if you're still going down that road then why don't you remember the 2001 series as well? Without Harbhajan we don't win that series & without 2001 series win we are still minnows today 

 

2001 series, post 1983 win, was the biggest turnaround in Indian cricket nothing comes close!

[R!TTER]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

That famous Pak Eng whitewash in 2011 or 12 in UAE saw the most blatant chucking in cricket history despite DRS and turning pitches.

So what? I was talking about India, I don't care for any rando series involving Pak! We didn't use DRS full time till 2016 Eng series & we paid massively because of that - 2011 second test big inside by Harbhajan given lbw to Broad, he picks up a hattrick & the game/series just goes out of the window! Mumbai 2012 end of second day Harbhajan bowls to Cook round the wicket, great shout but umpire gives not out - it was at least a 50/50 call & with DRS might've been turned.

 

This happened with Zaheer, Umesh, Shami, Ashwin & of course Jadeja as well pre 2016. If you're denying the impact of DRS then you can continue living in your lala land where no one, or multiple, factors influence the final outcome of the game! Like I said in some other thread, Eng's LO fortunes didn't change just because of their mindset - the two new ball rule had a huge impact on their fortunes 

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

So what? I was talking about India, I don't care for any rando series involving Pak! We didn't use DRS full time till 2016 Eng series & we paid massively because of that - 2011 second test big inside by Harbhajan given lbw to Broad, he picks up a hattrick & the game/series just goes out of the window! Mumbai 2012 end of second day Harbhajan bowls to Cook round the wicket, great shout but umpire gives not out - it was at least a 50/50 call & with DRS might've been turned.

 

This happened with Zaheer, Umesh, Shami, Ashwin & of course Jadeja as well pre 2016. If you're denying the impact of DRS then you can continue living in your lala land where no one, or multiple, factors influence the final outcome of the game! Like I said in some other thread, Eng's LO fortunes didn't change just because of their mindset - the two new ball rule had a huge impact on their fortunes 

I am not denying the impact of DRS on marginal calls going more in favor of bowlers.

I am against using absence of DRS as an excuse to justify chucking. read the part of your post I quoted above.