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Odi team is getting sorted

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5 hours ago, express bowling said:

The team / squad that will play the WC as per TM

 

1. Rohit

2. Gill 

3. Kohli

 

Backup .. Kishan

 

4. Shreyas

5. Rahul 

 

Backups .. SKY / Kishan 

 

6. Hardik

7. Axar 

 

Backups .. Washington,  Jadeja 

 

8. Shardul / Umran

 

9. Kuldeep

 

Backup .. Chahal

 

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj 

 

Backups .. Shami, Prasidh 

 

1. Jadeja  will be no.1 pick for #7 unless he injured. 

2. No. 8 could be Axar  & Shardul/Deepak -based on pitch conditions

3. Umran may have a place only if Shami is injured or poor form or Prasidh does not make it.  

 

Edited by prudent_kreeda
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27 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

1. Jadeja  will be no.1 pick for #7 unless he injured. 

2. No. 8 could be Axar  & Shardul/Deepak -based on pitch conditions

3. Umran may have a place only if Shami is injured or poor form or Prasidh does not make it.  

 

 

 

 Jadeja's fitness is a big issue and may make Axar the first choice No.7

 

I doubt they are going to play 2 SLA together. 

 

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4 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

You start off well, making a point that many miss....

 

 

 

And then you ruin it with the OTT fluff.

Quick question since I know you are reasonable.Why is Pandya the leader to lead India to promise land with new school thinking.Why does Pandya's approach reflect new school approach in whiteball cricket and Rohit /Kohli old school..

 

What has Pandya done in last 7 years to show he is new school in anything.

Edited by putrevus
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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 Jadeja's fitness is a big issue and may make Axar the first choice No.7

 

I doubt they are going to play 2 SLA together. 

 

Yes that is the dilemma .

Looking at players we have ,  Jaddu looks the best bet at #7  & bowling quality wise Axar is a better pick at #8 with some batting ability. 

A workaround would be Batters till #7 and then 4 quality bowlers . 

If they cannot do it , so be it . 

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3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Quick question since I know you are reasonable.Why is Pandya the leader to lead India to promise land with new school thinking.Why does Pandya's approach reflect new school approach in whiteball cricket and Rohit /Kohli old school..

 

What has Pandya done in last 7 years to show he is new school in anything.

Consistently performed with Bat and bowl . His confident calm Approach is highly appreciated . 
 

watch him chase against pak - team gains confidence from him . He is excellent born leader .

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5 minutes ago, mani sha said:

Consistently performed with Bat and bowl . His confident calm Approach is highly appreciated . 
 

watch him chase against pak - team gains confidence from him . He is excellent born leader .

What were those matches , where he performed ?? 

 

First let him become proper player before becoming leader.

Edited by putrevus
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19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why is Pandya the leader to lead India to promise land with new school thinking

I don't buy into this.  He's one of the senior players who's been given the chance to lead the team to see how he does.  Winning one IPL season does not anoint him with any special magical powers in my view.  However, it does qualify him to be a captaincy candidate. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why does Pandya's approach reflect new school approach in whiteball cricket and Rohit /Kohli old school..

 

What has Pandya done in last 7 years to show he is new school in anything.

 

Kohli has shown over his entire whiteball captaincy that he is conservative in batting tactics, conveniently in a manner that maximizes stats padding opportunities for himself.  He has also shown himself to be poor in player development - preferring has-beens like Karthik, Rayudu instead of properly grooming younger players.  

 

Rohit, is a mixed bag thus far - there IS a belated change in batting approach, but not enough freshness and clarity in selection approach.  But that is a subjective thing - for example - majority of ICF was up in arms 3 games ago, and was bashing both Rohit and Dravid, calling them all kinds of filthy names because Shubman Gill was allowed to open ahead of Ishan Kishan.  Today the same folks will shamelessly back Gill as an automatic choice for ODI XI for the WC.  So these things can be in flux, and team mgmt should be allowed the space to make some subjective decisions on borderline things.  Provided the overall strategy and mindset is aimed in the right direction.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

You start off well, making a point that many miss....

 

 

 

And then you ruin it with the OTT fluff.


Not here to please everyone on everything  … Anyone  who has followed cricket knows Sir Don steps up in key games (CT 2017 F, 2019 ODI WC SF - steadied the ship after 5/3, 2022 T20 WC SF) and his record against strong teams like Aus (2 MOS), Eng, Pak, etc. speaks for itself!

 

 

 

PS below is his comparison with Yuvi in KO games from one of my earlier posts:

 

Since some folks are mentioning Yuvi, who debuted in 2000, below is his performance in KO WC games: 

 

  • 2003 ODI SF v Kenya: No
  • 2003 ODI F v Aus: No 
  • 2007 T20 SF v Aus: Yes 
  • 2007 T20 F v Pak: No 
  • 2011 ODI QF v Aus: Yes 
  • 2011 ODI SF v Pak: No 
  • 2011 ODI F v SL: -  
  • 2014 T20 SF v SA: No
  • 2014 T20 F v SL: No 

 

If this is supposed to be India's "benchmark" in World Cup KOs - that is like 2 performances (that too against only 1 team - Aus) in 8 opportunities, considering the final v SL where he remained not out scoring a 20 odd when Ind was in control as a draw for him ... Ind failed to reach KOs in 2007 ODIs, 2009 T20s, 2010 T20s, & 2012 T20s. 

 

 

I think players like Sir Don should seek to set a new benchmark, and he is already on his way: 

 

  • 2019 ODI SF v NZ: Yes (helped Ind to avoid a further collapse by stitching p'ships) 
  • 2022 T20 SF v ENG: Yes (60 odd runs)

 

That already equals Yuvi's (and in just 2 appearances and against 2 different teams)! 

 

Edited by zen
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4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I don't buy into this.  He's one of the senior players who's been given the chance to lead the team to see how he does.  Winning one IPL season does not anoint him with any special magical powers in my view.  However, it does qualify him to be a captaincy candidate. 

 

 

 

Kohli has shown over his entire whiteball captaincy that he is conservative in batting tactics, conveniently in a manner that maximizes stats padding opportunities for himself.  He has also shown himself to be poor in player development - preferring has-beens like Karthik, Rayudu instead of properly grooming younger players.  

 

Rohit, is a mixed bag thus far - there IS a belated change in batting approach, but not enough freshness and clarity in selection approach.  But that is a subjective thing - for example - majority of ICF was up in arms 3 games ago, and was bashing both Rohit and Dravid, calling them all kinds of filthy names because Shubman Gill was allowed to open ahead of Ishan Kishan.  Today the same folks will shamelessly back Gill as an automatic choice for ODI XI for the WC.  So these things can be in flux, and team mgmt should be allowed the space to make some subjective decisions on borderline things.  Provided the overall strategy and mindset is aimed in the right direction.  

 

 

Okay let us take Kohli, how was he conservative in his approach.If he and Rohit failed there was no batting left to do much. He started captaincy in 2017 and ended in 2019 semis, He reach semis in one and finals in another. He won odi series in almost every country.

 

There was nobody there in 2019.Karthik played one match that to after multiple injuries to Dhawan and 3D player himself. 

 

This nonsense that he was stat padding is ridiculous.

 

I would Kohli over Rohit anyday but Kohli's time is up . 

 

Pandya to me is little neither this nor that and for him to become captain in any format is beyond ridiculous.

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52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If he and Rohit failed there was no batting left to do much. He started captaincy in 2017 and ended in 2019 semis, He reach semis in one and finals in another. He won odi series in almost every country.

 

There was nobody there in 2019.Karthik played one match that to after multiple injuries to Dhawan and 3D player himself. 

 

This nonsense that he was stat padding is ridiculous.

 

You really do have an overly selective memory.  2017 to 2019, KLPD Rahul was lighting it up all over the place with the whiteball, scoring T20I century here, and in absolute purple patch.  But was NEVER given a proper run.  Especially where he could flourish - i.e. the top order.  Instead he was left languishing on the ODI bench, until he also attempted to change his game and become an accumulator a la Virat and Rohit.   Think back to Ganguly dropping down from opening the batting in ODIs and giving Veeru a shot.  Or promoting an unproven MS Dhoni to #3 early in his career.  Virat had ample opportunities to do such things with players like Rahul, Gill, Pant, Shaw.  Instead he chose to lock down the top order for himself and his 2 farmhouse boys, and only allowed new batsmen slots at #5 or lower.  And that too, picking dinosaurs with barely a year or 2 of career left - Kedar Jadhav, Dinesh Karthik, Rayudu - all of these guys got more "opportunities" than 2018 KL Rahul, Shreyas Iyer. Rishabh, Pant, Shaw or Samson.  Or even Hardik Pandya.    Gee, it must just be a coincidence that advertisers tend to flock to up and coming young batsmen who start putting up good scores in white ball cricket.  Or maybe not.  Its just that Kuptaan Virat prefers older batsmen like some teenagers prefer milfs.

 

Look at how England use Ben Stokes all through 2016 to 2018 - always promoting him to #4 so he could get ample experience sorting out his batting method, tempo etc, picking up valuable in-game experience that simply cannot be acquired any other way.  Come the 2019 WC final, Ben Stokes had the required experience he needed to soak up the pressure and play to his potential against NZ.  But Indian batsmen like Rishabh, Rahul, Pandya had hardly ever batted in the middle phase of the ODI innings in international matches.  Because "big three" used to keep racking up ball-eating "centuries".   Virat preferred to lock in the "big 3" and keep all young batsmen lower down the order.  It was not only overly conservative - in the sense that the top 3 kept on batting with selfish intentionally lower Strike rates (compared to best in class openers like Bairstow, Jason Roy, hales etc) while settling for ODI totals of low 300 or so.   Conservative and self-serving.  Keep scoring ODI centuries at 90 SR in the name of "setting platforms".  Keep giving ODI post-game speeches of - bowlers should be able to defend a 300+ total.  Now in 2023 you are sitting here whining about the team scoring 385 because they should have scored more. If Virat was captain, we'd huff and puff to 340 odd and that too only if we managed 10+ RR in the "death overs".  

 

Under Virat, we NEVER aimed at breaching 200 in 25 overs.  Because the kuptaan set the batting template of "top order sets platform".   There can be arguments and speculation about Virat's motives for doing what he did, why he was choosing the tactics that he did.  But there is no ambiguity in the fact that he was an overly conservative captain when it came to ODI batting tactics - zero.  And to claim that "there was no other batting" is absolute Bull-shiyte.  We are talking about India here - there are at a minimum 3-5 top tier batting candidates available for selection outside the starting XI.  We are not New Zealand who has to settle for South African rejects, or greenbros, who hardly have any proper batting prospects.  So stop making excuses for Virat's self-inflicted selection myopia and self-inflicted conservatism.   

 

 

Edited by sandeep
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58 minutes ago, sandeep said:

- majority of ICF was up in arms 3 games ago, and was bashing both Rohit and Dravid, calling them all kinds of filthy names because Shubman Gill was allowed to open ahead of Ishan Kishan.  Today the same folks will shamelessly back Gill as an automatic choice for ODI XI for the WC.  

 

 

 

Most people wanted both Kishan and Gill to play and Rahul dropped as Rahul invariably fails in the big LOI matches in tournaments.

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22 minutes ago, sandeep said:

There can be arguments and speculation about Virat's motives for doing what he did, why he was choosing the tactics that he did. 

 

 

 

A guy named Rishabh Pant scored a 100 in Australia in his first tour in 2018.

Scored a 100 in England in 2018.

But didn't play first test in BGT 2020-21 under Kohli.

He played only when Kohli went 5000 miles away from the team and he won the series for India.

Virat's motives in handling youngsters just didn't show his ineptness, they were downright dubious.

But we can not expect anything better from a man whose career is built on inspiration of being the best player of his team (as he himself admitted in many interviews) than being a player of the best team. 

Edited by Number
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2 minutes ago, Number said:

A guy named Rishabh Pant scored a 100 in Australia in his first tour in 2018.

Scored a 100 in England in 2018.

But didn't play first test in BGT 2020-21 under Kohli.

He played only when Kohli went 5000 miles away from the team and he won the series for India.

Virat's motives in handling youngsters just didn't show his ineptness, they were downright dubious.

 

+1.

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29 minutes ago, sandeep said:

plenty of the same people were pushing for Kishan ahead of Gill, questioning Gill's ability as an ODI opener, let's not re-write facts here.

 

 

Maybe a couple but definitely not most people. 

 

And the more important point is that ... no batsman should be dropped after a double century. I am a big supporter of Gill, but if I had to choose only one among Gill and Kishan in the ODI after Kishan's 208, I would still choose Kishan as a matter of principle. 

 

If some people think that Gill is a better ODI option than Kishan as of today, after multiple good innings by Gill in the last few matches, that is justified too. Every decision should be based on current facts.

Edited by express bowling
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1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Maybe a couple but definitely not most people. 

 

And the more important point is that ... no batsman should be dropped after a double century. I am a big supporter of Gill, but if I had to choose only one among Gill or Kishan in the ODI after Kishan's 208, I would still choose Kishan as a matter of principle. 

 

If some people think that Gill is a better ODI option than Kishan as of today, after multiple good innings by Gill in the last few matches, that is justified too. Every decision should be based on current facts.

most wanted Kishan over Rahul, not Gill

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18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

And the more important point is that ... no batsman should be dropped after a double century. I am a big supporter of Gill, but if I had to choose only one among Gill and Kishan in the ODI after Kishan's 208, I would still choose Kishan as a matter of principle. 

 

With all due respect, that is your personal opinion, a subjective one, and one you are entitled to.  Others can agree or disagree.  Similarly, the team management is also allowed to have a perspective and make their choices based on what they believe is best.  And they are hired to do that job.  So one should be gracious and mature enough when discussing such subjective judgement calls, that there can be more than one "right" answer, instead of hurling random insults and bad language at legends like Dravid.  I'm not saying you did that - but plenty on this forum did.  

 

And I'm not saying that just because Dravid is who he is, he should be above criticism or disagreement.  By all means, go for it and express your opinions and criticisms, rant away - but there should be some sort of red lines that are self-imposed when it comes to that. 

 

In the name of "freedom of expression" there are plenty of posters who really vent toxic garbage.  I neither have the desire nor the time to police such crap.  I wish more folks followed your lead in posting criticism instead of the silly nonsense that litters the forum - a little too frequently for me. 

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

plenty of the same people were pushing for Kishan ahead of Gill, questioning Gill's ability as an ODI opener, let's not re-write facts here.

I like Shubman Gill's class..started showing glimpses of his future..and this opening pair worked well for us..we did whitewash NZ..however..Team India still has to answer below questions..

1-we are still playing old script cricket..relying on top 3 to set platform and score massively..it works untill it doesnt..and middle order gets exposed

2-I would like to see this opening pair..if they are able to give similar solid base..more potent bowling line ups(esp opening bowlers)..against quality left armers..Boult,Shaheen etc

3-Chasing a challenging total..how they perform..we need to expect and prepared to be chasing 350+ in modern day ODIs against good side

 

Ideally Kishan+Gill should open..so we have an attacker and consolidator..

 

we know Rohit will play..so can we play Rohit+Kishan and shift Gill at 3 which works too..but

we know Kohli will play..so we have tough choice b/w Gill vs Kishan..that is unfair but it is what it is..

I also dont want to force Gill to play too much agressive cricket which is out of his comfort zone...but we know that KL Rahu is coming too..welcome more consolidators..dont forget to add..Pandya aiso started to do similar role recently..

 

so our top\MO will look like this..this looks solid but lacks agressiveness for my liking..and may find tough to score briskly against good attacks..

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

Iyer

Rahu

Pandya

 

It's unfair on Gill to force him into playing what he doesnt do due to other batters game and their reserved slots...but we know Kishan can give us brisk starts..

its also unfair to judge Kishan's MO performances when we were expecting him as an opener..

Gill got chances performed briliiantly..its his spot now..fair and square but may be Kishan could have given blistering starts too..if not hundreds..may be 30 ball 50s..or 50 balls 75..if he were given those directions from team..

 

that is the platform I prefer..keeping modern day cricket in mind..quick and fast starts..so that way our middle order also gets chances..to continue that momentum..and we see if they are correct MO or not..

 

As of now..we are back to same old method...top 3 scoring bulk of the runs..again preparing same recipe for failure in ICC events..

 

 

 

 

Edited by Need4Speed
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