Kohli's batting position

[Chakdephatte]

Ever since he has become permanent part of the team, he is playing at the same position. Irrespective of how many runs we have, how many overs are left, who is on the  other end, the opposition, his position is fixed. Why do we need him to come before Sky, Hardik, etc., in situations like this (happened many times in the past too). I understand that he played his role perfectly whatever situation he came at but why can't we have horses for courses. He would be a better no.4 from now onwards if you think about it.

[Chakdephatte]

For once he decided to vacate his position for Gill. That was before last World Cup. It took him two matches to conclude that Gill is not good enough and came back to his favorite position.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Chakdephatte

[putrevus]

Kohli has to bat at number3, he is better finisher than any finisher we have in the team if team gets a good start. He is the best odi batsman we have , there is no need to change his position for anyone else.

Edited January 24, 2023 by putrevus

[Chakdephatte]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli has to bat at number3, he is better finisher than any finisher we have in the team if team gets a good start. He is the best odi batsman we have, there is no need to change his position for anyone else.

 

Valid point but sometimes you don't need to bat long and hit in last few overs. In matches like this. Suryakumar can be dangerous in last overs similarly.

[R!TTER]

14 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Valid point but sometimes you don't need to bat long and hit in last few overs. In matches like this. Suryakumar can be dangerous in last overs similarly.

What valid point? Kohli hasn't finished an important game for us batting at 3 ever, that low score we chased in CT 2017 SF doesn't count! The reason Kohli batting at 4 is better because he can play anchor/aggressor depending on the situation, if he's fixed at 3 then as we saw in 2015 WC, 2017 CT final, 2019 SF he can get out to the new ball rather quickly & that pretty much seals the game if top 3 are back in the hut! When the pitch is tough get someone who can play out the new ball at 3, Kohli even after 15+ years in intl cricket fishes outside off like he's on a holiday & that's why he won't be anywhere near SRT as one of the ATG in ODI - * the raw numbers, just check Gill or Barber's stats today 

[sandeep]

51 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

Ever since he has become permanent part of the team, he is playing at the same position. Irrespective of how many runs we have, how many overs are left, who is on the  other end, the opposition, his position is fixed. Why do we need him to come before Sky, Hardik, etc., in situations like this (happened many times in the past too). I understand that he played his role perfectly whatever situation he came at but why can't we have horses for courses. He would be a better no.4 from now onwards if you think about it.

ICF search doesn't work very well - I proposed Virat at #4 more than 3 years ago - back when KLPD was in his purple patch and was consistently batting at 130+ SR.   

 

Point is, in a high scoring shootout of an ODI, unless we lose an early wicket ( and even if we do), Virat's spot definitely needs to be reviewed.

 

Now to be fair, Virat has definitely attempted to bat with more urgency of late, and in a big crunch game, his temperament and track record is unquestionable.  But nothing should be a sacred cow, least of all batting "order".  In white ball cricket, batting order should be driven by the team score, momentum, match situation and over number, not some default on paper "order" that's pre-determined.

[nevada]

53 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

For once he decided to vacate his position for Gill. That was before last World Cup. It took him two matches to conclude that Gill is not good enough and came back to his favorite position.

He did the same for Rahul also - 2-3 games later, the batting order reverted to normal. 

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

What valid point? Kohli hasn't finished an important game for us batting at 3 ever, that low score we chased in CT 2017 SF doesn't count! The reason Kohli batting at 4 is better because he can play anchor/aggressor depending on the situation, if he's fixed at 3 then as we saw in 2015 WC, 2017 CT final, 2019 SF he can get out to the new ball rather quickly & that pretty much seals the game if top 3 are back in the hut! When the pitch is tough get someone who can play out the new ball at 3, Kohli even after 15+ years in intl cricket fishes outside off like he's on a holiday & that's why he won't be anywhere near SRT as one of the ATG in ODI - * the raw numbers, just check Gill or Barber's stats today 

So innings he scores does not count. And you are expecting someone to chase 340 plus in ICC tournament then you must living in lala land.

 

What was Sachin tendulkar doing on the flattest Joburg pitch getting out 4 chasing 350 or another  single digit scoring  chasing 260 odd in 2011 . 

 

Kohli is 100 times better Odi player than Sachin ever was in his career.

Edited January 24, 2023 by putrevus

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

Ever since he has become permanent part of the team, he is playing at the same position. Irrespective of how many runs we have, how many overs are left, who is on the  other end, the opposition, his position is fixed. Why do we need him to come before Sky, Hardik, etc., in situations like this (happened many times in the past too). I understand that he played his role perfectly whatever situation he came at but why can't we have horses for courses. He would be a better no.4 from now onwards if you think about it.

At 4, you need to be very good vs spin. I don't think Kohli is that great vs spin. He is best at no.3 position and hence it is better to stick with him only at that position. In T20s, if the first wicket falls after 10 overs, Suryakumar can come in at 3.

 

In ODIs, after 35 overs, Suryakumar can come ahead of Kohli.

[singhvivek141]

34 minutes ago, Majestic said:

At 4, you need to be very good vs spin. I don't think Kohli is that great vs spin. He is best at no.3 position and hence it is better to stick with him only at that position. In T20s, if the first wicket falls after 10 overs, Suryakumar can come in at 3.

 

In ODIs, after 35 overs, Suryakumar can come ahead of Kohli.

This, spinners will eat him alive at no 4 on a track with even a bit of help. His game against spin has deteriorated and only chance he can score it at the top facing pace bowlers.

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

This, spinners will eat him alive at no 4 on a track with even a bit of help. His game against spin has deteriorated and only chance he can score it at the top facing pace bowlers.

Right so he can't score at the top against the moving ball & can't score against spin, so remind me why is he in the team again? You wanna bet who gets him out first - the swinging ball or spinners 

 

He should be fine vs spinners while chasing if there's the usual dew we see towards the end of the year! First 10-20 overs will always be his Achilles heel.

Edited January 24, 2023 by R!TTER

[singhvivek141]

34 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Right so he can't score at the top against the moving ball & can't score against spin, so remind me why is he in the team again? You wanna bet who gets him out first - the swinging ball or spinners 

 

He should be fine vs spinners while chasing if there's the usual dew we see towards the end of the year! First 10-20 overs will always be his Achilles heel.

That's why I mentioned little bit of help against spinners.
He can survive on flat pitches, but I think he can manage pace unless it's left arm inswing. Also, he can score quickly against pacers, while against spinner even if he survives he will eat up balls.

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Kohli is 100 times better Odi player than Sachin ever was in his career.

[Gollum]

52 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Seriously what do these Kohli tards think the rest of us are? Shat his pants in 3 WCs when he was in his prime/peak, WC KO average of 16 at strike rate of 50, over 5 games, 3 WCs played in 3 different continents. His ODI legacy is limited to scoring useless 100s against C grade attacks in bilateral dead rubbers played on 50m grounds where par score is 350. 

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Seriously what do these Kohli tards think the rest of us are? Shat his pants in 3 WCs when he was in his prime/peak, WC KO average of 16 at strike rate of 50, over 5 games, 3 WCs played in 3 different continents. His ODI legacy is limited to scoring useless 100s against C grade attacks in bilateral dead rubbers played on 50m grounds where par score is 350. 

They were down and dusted but that innings like a viagra has given them a new erection

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

That's why I mentioned little bit of help against spinners.
He can survive on flat pitches, but I think he can manage pace unless it's left arm inswing. Also, he can score quickly against pacers, while against spinner even if he survives he will eat up balls.

In ODI's the ball doesn't really get old, like tests, so unless the pitch is really dry/turning you shouldn't expect much assistance for them & if you can't overcome even the slightest bit of turn why the * is he playing internationals then?

 

You have it the other way around - against pace especially in the PP he can't rotate strike because the field is up, this is why he is more prone to fishing. Yes admittedly he can't maneuver the field much with spinners these days but there's still more gaps & more ways to rotate the strike! Kohli's game is built around singles/doubles & then when he gets set boundaries & of course the odd six. If you deny his singles especially early 9/10 times he'll get out relatively quickly.

Edited January 24, 2023 by R!TTER

[speedracer]

Place? Bench mate. Bench. Even better? At home with nooshka

[speedracer]

16 hours ago, Gollum said:

Seriously what do these Kohli tards think the rest of us are? Shat his pants in 3 WCs when he was in his prime/peak, WC KO average of 16 at strike rate of 50, over 5 games, 3 WCs played in 3 different continents. His ODI legacy is limited to scoring useless 100s against C grade attacks in bilateral dead rubbers played on 50m grounds where par score is 350. 

100%

Remove him and we can win vs any big team. Also bgt happened when he dint play

[speedracer]

18 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

This, spinners will eat him alive at no 4 on a track with even a bit of help. His game against spin has deteriorated and only chance he can score it at the top facing pace bowlers.

Mitchell Johnson made him his b in 2015

Boukt made him his b in 2019

Amir in 2017

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, speedracer said:

Mitchell Johnson made him his b in 2015

Boukt made him his b in 2019

Amir in 2017

 

Junaid in 2013 as well.
Kohli struggles against left arm pacers who can swing the ball in. He can manage pretty well against those who can't (he played Wahab pretty well).
Johnson was an exception, as he was too quick and bouncy for Kohli to bring in his pull shot.