ravishingravi Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, mishra said: Search Participatory P Notes. No Gvmnt in India has so far shown to have balls to ban it. All the Indian companies including Ambani Adani, Tata, Birala, HDFC, ICICI you name it do it. BTW, I was watching movie on Harshad Mehata. I thought a smarter person would have legalised or found middle ground to what Harshad did. After all, Its legal now what essentially he did. So there in lies clue You cannot ban P notes. This is not that big a market as some like to believe. Imagine a 20K crore FPO is under stress. I mean the market has no depth when things get a little rough. We need FII money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: Well its not a violation if its not proven. I have seen many such funding and tax structuring. Yeah its not great intent. But it is within the framework. It is as much a scam as big tech not paying taxes in US. Its not right, but it is how companies work. Finding loopholes and safe space wherever they can. Not every corporate is Tata. yeah, I'm not an expert in finance, accounting or securities regulation - but thus far its clear that this story is a lot more complex than some sort of naive "corrupt bad business corporation exposed by investigation". Things are a lot more murky than that. I'm reluctant to fall into the conspiracy speculation of the connect the dots type, so linking this to the BBC report etc is more than a bit.....extrapolated. However, Hindenburg is no white knight here, they have an agenda, and when I read through their "report", even as a layman its very obvious that a lot of it is narrative building using sensational adjectives instead of hard factual evidence. There is indeed some evidence of financial engineering that is potentially illegal, and at a mimimum worth investigating, but they are seriously hyping it up quite a bit in order to make short selling profits, that is unmistakable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 14 minutes ago, sandeep said: There is indeed some evidence of financial engineering that is potentially illegal, and at a mimimum worth investigating, but they are seriously hyping it up quite a bit in order to make short selling profits, that is unmistakable. No doubt on the intentions of a short selling firm... whats suspicious is the timing of the release of this report before budget (last one probably before the general elections next year) and dismissing Adanis response as jingoistic nationalism instead of rebutting atleast some of the points raised in it. No accounting firm worth their salt will just dismiss with that tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, diga said: No doubt on the intentions of a short selling firm... whats suspicious is the timing of the release of this report before budget (last one probably before the general elections next year) and dismissing Adanis response as jingoistic nationalism instead of rebutting atleast some of the points raised in it. No accounting firm worth their salt will just dismiss with that tweet yeah its a "PR" war at this point, and critics of current govt pretending that Hindenburg is some sort of white knight angel activist instead of a profiteering business with its own agenda is........self-serving and dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 32 minutes ago, diga said: No doubt on the intentions of a short selling firm... whats suspicious is the timing of the release of this report before budget (last one probably before the general elections next year) and dismissing Adanis response as jingoistic nationalism instead of rebutting atleast some of the points raised in it. No accounting firm worth their salt will just dismiss with that tweet For me, this was a smoking gun. I would imagine Hidenburg replying something like "Our report is not intended towards India, Indian regulators or even Indian people. This is isolated analysis of Adani group which we believe has resorted to unfair trade practices". But the language they used was what liberal left wing uses on social media. Which makes me wonder if there is famous hand ( which moved currency markets ) backing this report. Edited January 31 by ravishingravi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 27 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: Which makes me wonder if there is famous hand ( which moved currency markets ) backing this report. You mean George Soros ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, Khota said: You miss the point. There is no point to be missed. He can now service his debts easily. If they go on to sell their stake in Ambuja cement and further lower their debt then it will kill any issues permanently. Its not just Advani btw. SBI has risen by 5% due to the narrative of Hindenburg that Indian banking would somehow collapse. Retail investors will invest in the sensex or index funds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, mishra said: Search Participatory P Notes. No Gvmnt in India has so far shown to have balls to ban it. All the Indian companies including Ambani Adani, Tata, Birala, HDFC, ICICI you name it do it. But Adanis have been picked BTW, I was watching movie on Harshad Mehata. I thought a smarter person (Finance Minister) would have legalised or found middle ground to what Harshad did. After all, Its legal now what essentially he did. So there in lies clue It is the one who does the most gets the attention. But the question is whether they did something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, sandeep said: and the point is what again? Was there a wrongdoing or not. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: There is no point to be missed. He can now service his debts easily. If they go on to sell their stake in Ambuja cement and further lower their debt then it will kill any issues permanently. Its not just Advani btw. SBI has risen by 5% due to the narrative of Hindenburg that Indian banking would somehow collapse. Retail investors will invest in the sensex or index funds Did he artificially inflate the value of his stock. or not. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: There is no point to be missed. He can now service his debts easily. If they go on to sell their stake in Ambuja cement and further lower their debt then it will kill any issues permanently. Its not just Advani btw. SBI has risen by 5% due to the narrative of Hindenburg that Indian banking would somehow collapse. Retail investors will invest in the sensex or index funds Most important point is the last person Hindenburg accused is doing jail time. Hindenburg is not doing this to gain attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, diga said: You mean George Soros ? There is only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 4 hours ago, Khota said: It is the one who does the most gets the attention. But the question is whether they did something wrong. What does that even mean? How do u quantify “does most”? i gave u hint as to what wrong he or others top Indian tickers doing in US terms. That wrong is NOT illegal in Indian terms. Hence Hindenburg was asking them to file lawsuit in US. Edited January 31 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, mishra said: What does that even mean? How do u quantify “does most”? i gave u hint as to what wrong he or others top Indian tickers doing in US terms. That wrong is NOT illegal in Indian terms. Hence Hindenburg was asking them to file lawsuit in US. Do you think courts in US don't understand that they don't have any jurisdiction over Indian law? Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Adani has lost close to 50 billion USD in last 2 weeks. Adani group shares tanked again today. https://www.telegraphindia.com/business/adani-group-stocks-fall-in-morning-trade-for-fifth-consecutive-day/cid/1913524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Adani is not like bitcoin that will completely tank. They are a strong company with tangible assets. Correction will happen for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Khota and Under_Score 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM2907 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 This should be simple. is there a fraud or not. These are publicly listed companies. All information is public. How can then there be yes and no on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 This is strange 1.fpo @3100 looked improbable with this report .... 2. But Fpo was successful and price rose to 3000-3100 3. Today, price tanked 30% to 2100/- 4. Adani comes out n says he will return the 20k cr collected in fpo at 3100 per share as the price has dropped the next day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Lord said: A must read. If you inflate stock value is this punishable? Lord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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