If the shoe was on the other foot.....*also Steve Smith BGT 2023 dismissals analysis*

[jalebi_bhai]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

He is up against one of the ATG bowling spin pair in their den. Lohli has been a bunny against debutant in this series until this innings. There is a huge difference.

 

Yes there is. 152 runs difference.

 

This thread is proving to be a quintessential example of classic Indian crab mentality.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Yes there is. 152 runs difference.

 

This thread is proving to be a quintessential example of classic Indian crab mentality.

One innings shouldn't hide other failures. Analaysis of Kohli's performance extends far beyond this series. If this series failure is an aberration even Kohli would have escaped criticism.  Even in this series his runs are 12, 44, 20, 22, 13 befor this 186 which hardly qualifies as a great series. When you juxtapose with series of other failures it is a legitimate criticism. 

[jalebi_bhai]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

One innings shouldn't hide other failures. Analaysis of Kohli's performance extends far beyond this series. If this series failure is an aberration even Kohli would have escaped criticism.  Even in this series his runs are 12, 44, 20, 22, 13 befor this 186 which hardly qualifies as a great series. When you juxtapose with series of other failures it is a legitimate criticism. 

Now can you kindly go into such detail about Smith's performance (or lack of) in this series?

[Bigg Brother]

Most people could not care less about Smith as he isn't hampering our chances, it is Australia's thing to worry about him not us. Most people don't follow Australian cricket as diligently and avidly as India's here. Good for our bowlers to keep him calm, anyway he has landsliding performance here last time when they toured so Smith's credentials are proven here anyway. Kohli on the other hand is Indian cricketer, the team about whom we care more and mostly follow every single series. As VVS said, his performances transcends over the last three years..Anyway nice try to back him comparing him with Smith. Smith isn't our priority, if there is anyone knocking door in Australian team and Smith is blocking him, he is no better than Kohli. Kohli on the other hand has been abysmal poor since last 3 years . Good for him that he extended his stay till WTC final with this knock+ PR+ SOME kohlitards. He isn't going to  last long...

Edited March 13 by Bigg Brother

[singhvivek141]

Due to below reasons

1. Smith is not an Indian batter, Kohli is. I don't care what Kane Williamson or Joe Root are doing in their respective series because that doesn't impact us..Kohli's performance/non-performance does

2. Kohli's returns are mediocre from last 22 tests, one can pass one or two series failure as being out of form. But 22 Tests with an average of 31 (including the 186) is a big question mark.

3. Kohli's issue with spin was evident, even on the pitches with bounce he was overly commiting himself on the front foot by trying to negate the swing (another weakness of his) and hence was getting out due to bounce. He needed a bit of luck which he got when he went to bat, and credit to him that he made full use of that.

 

Big scores/crucial contributions might tone down the voices a bit, but if he fails again continously with mediocre returns then concerns will be raised again.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Now can you kindly go into such detail about Smith's performance (or lack of) in this series?

Why should we? If he had failed in every series we would be making fun of him. He is still averaging 60. If Kohli had done well in the last few series and failed here he would have escaped criticism as well.

[vvvslaxman]

Another thing we only analyzed Indians

 Very rarely foreigners whose failures only help us. Warner was criticized by all Australians when he had a poor run. They didn't give him a free pass because he got a 200 in his  100th test.

[AKane]

5 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Smith's non-performance has ultimately proven to be the difference between an Oz win and loss.

 

Why have ICFers turned a blind eye to this?

Smith has declined as a player - In Aus forums they openly say that his eye hand coordination has declined and is continuing to decline.

 

Everyone ages including Smith (and Kohli).

[jalebi_bhai]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Due to below reasons

1. Smith is not an Indian batter, Kohli is. I don't care what Kane Williamson or Joe Root are doing in their respective series because that doesn't impact us..Kohli's performance/non-performance does

2. Kohli's returns are mediocre from last 22 tests, one can pass one or two series failure as being out of form. But 22 Tests with an average of 31 (including the 186) is a big question mark.

3. Kohli's issue with spin was evident, even on the pitches with bounce he was overly commiting himself on the front foot by trying to negate the swing (another weakness of his) and hence was getting out due to bounce. He needed a bit of luck which he got when he went to bat, and credit to him that he made full use of that.

 

Big scores/crucial contributions might tone down the voices a bit, but if he fails again continously with mediocre returns then concerns will be raised again.

Because Kane's 4th innings master class today had no bearing on us qualifying for the WTC final? 

 

Both Kane and Mitchell's innings helped India seal the final spot by the end of our first session. Lanka had a legit shot at an upset when NZ were 90/3.

[jalebi_bhai]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

Smith has declined as a player - In Aus forums they openly say that his eye hand coordination has declined and is continuing to decline.

 

Everyone ages including Smith (and Kohli).

I understand all that. 

 

The point of the thread is to point out the hypocrisy of the forum. It is one thing to be critical of our own players, that's perfectly fine.

 

However, what we're witnessing in this thread is people making excuses to not even broach the subject of Smith's failures this series. Just generic comments like yours. No detailed, technical mumbo-jumbo. More interested in discussing what he did in other series. 

 

Some saying we don't discuss other team players when there is a thread on Mitchell Starc on the very first page.

 

Basically, we will analyze other team players only to bash our own players.

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Because Kane's 4th innings master class today had no bearing on us qualifying for the WTC final? 

 

Both Kane and Mitchell's innings helped India seal the final spot by the end of our first session. Lanka had a legit shot at an upset when NZ were 90/3.

Kane and Mitchell din't do that to help India qualify for WTC, they did it for their own country..India getting benefit is just a by product of their performance.

In simple words...Kohli, Pujara, Bumrah, Pant or any Indian player will face more criticism on ICF because they are "our" players....and their constant failures are criticised because it adversly impact Indian cricket. I'm sure Australian media, fans and ex-cricketers will criticize Smith, Labuschange and Warner as well for their non-performance. 

 

Edited March 13 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

It is legit criticism for Kohli. Your number 4 cannot go missing completely for three years.

 

 

Adding to those woes were useless Rahane, Rahul and Pujara. Rahane and Rahul should have never played that many test matches. That is a discussion for some other time.

 

Steve Smith has been Bradmanesque so him missing out in one series should not be a big deal.He has proved himself over and over again in all conditions.

[jalebi_bhai]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It is legit criticism for Kohli. Your number 4 cannot go missing completely for three years.

 

 

Adding to those woes were useless Rahane, Rahul and Pujara. Rahane and Rahul should have never played that many test matches. That is a discussion for some other time.

 

Steve Smith has been Bradmanesque so him missing out in one series should not be a big deal.He has proved himself over and over again in all conditions.

Please point out where I said don't criticize Kohli or any Indian player.

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I understand all that. 

 

The point of the thread is to point out the hypocrisy of the forum. It is one thing to be critical of our own players, that's perfectly fine.

 

However, what we're witnessing in this thread is people making excuses to not even broach the subject of Smith's failures this series. Just generic comments like yours. No detailed, technical mumbo-jumbo. More interested in discussing what he did in other series. 

 

Some saying we don't discuss other team players when there is a thread on Mitchell Starc on the very first page.

 

Basically, we will analyze other team players only to bash our own players.

We discuss other players. but we don't worry about their drop in performance. We only worry about Indian performance. What is next?   Hey Hasaranga sucked  why are we criticizing Chahal not Hasaranga?  

[jalebi_bhai]

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Kane and Mitchell din't do that to help India qualify for WTC, they did it for their own country..India getting benefit is just a by product of their performance.

In simple words...Kohli, Pujara, Bumrah, Pant or any Indian player will face more criticism on ICF because they are "our" players....and their constant failures are criticised because it adversly impact Indian cricket. I'm sure Australian media, fans and ex-cricketers will criticize Smith, Labuschange and Warner as well for their non-performance. 

 

You said it doesn't impact us. It clearly did. Had he failed and NZ lost the test, qualifying for WTC final would've gone out of our hands.

 

Had NZ lost, India would've had to find a way to get a win. So yes, his runs impacted our performance as it ensured that we didn't have to pull off a miracle win on a flat wicket. We could just coast 2nd session onwards.

[jalebi_bhai]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

We discuss other players. but we don't worry about their drop in performance. We only worry about Indian performance. What is next?   Hey Hasaranga sucked  why are we criticizing Chahal not Hasaranga?  

Who is telling you to worry about it? Just call it out with the same gusto as you would for an Indian player.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Please point out where I said don't criticize Kohli or any Indian player.

My bad , you never said don't criticize Kohli. 

 

You are spot on , shoe was on other foot in 2017 and Kohli was taken to cleaners then.He was in terrific form then coming into that series but he failed in that series.

 

But Kohli for some reason gets unusual hate on here ? Some geniuses talk about money he makes and what not as if he is taking money from their pockets.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Who is telling you to worry about it? Just call it out with the same gusto as you would for an Indian player.

 

We will never. Because it doesn't impact India's fortunes. May be we call out as part of generic discussion. We do call out during Ashes or other series. We did call out how Wagner set Smith up and everything. We also called out how Ashwin set him up in Australia. Intensity won't be the same because he is not hurting India's fortunes.

[vvvslaxman]

For the record Australia dropped Smith from world T20 squad as he consistently under-performed where as Kohli won't be dropped in Tests unless he goes out on his own.

Edited March 13 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

If you say you criticize Kohli not Rohit then we can discuss about it as they both represent India. For the record every Indian player has received wide range of criticism. Can you tell me if there is one player who has escaped criticism?