Elections 23-24 NDA vs I.N.D.I.A (updated) -Poll Added

[mishra]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

They are holding 2 meetings dispute resolution and CoA (court of arbitration)....

This is actually pathetic as they are already opposing our 2 dam projects.

Weak willed government acting on USA's whims... 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-pak-may-hold-indus-talks-this-month/articleshow/110854226.cms

 

https://www.onmanorama.com/news/india/2023/09/22/indus-waters-treaty.amp.html

 

A treaty means nothing unilateral. Our dam project is being held by Pakistani on basis of that treaty which was signed by Congress.Its neither USA nor someone else. Its Congress bad piss poor understanding of geoplotics which is root cause of everything.

[Lone Wolf]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

A treaty means nothing unilateral. Our dam project is being held by Pakistani on basis of that treaty which was signed by Congress.Its neither USA nor someone else. Its Congress bad piss poor understanding of geoplotics which is root cause of everything.

Congress has accurate understanding.... Those projects are of geostrategic importance to us.

If govt. Keeps getting forced by CIA or Deep state to act against our interests like the ceasefire then they are of no use .

Vishwaguru might be another Zelensky in making .

[mishra]

51 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Congress has accurate understanding.... Those projects are of geostrategic importance to us.

If govt. Keeps getting forced by CIA or Deep state to act against our interests like the ceasefire then they are of no use .

Vishwaguru might be another Zelensky in making .

Clarify the issue here.As far as last year, I was aware that India was asking Pakistan to let us continue building dam, And they were saying no but Modi govmnt went ahead and started the work.

 

https://thediplomat.com/2023/07/india-rejects-hague-court-order-on-indus-water-treaty/

Quote

India’s rejection of The Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA)’s July 6 ruling declaring itself “competent” to consider and determine disputes raised by Pakistan against two hydroelectric projects in India’s Jammu and Kashmir did not come as a surprise to those following the case closely.

India had already decided to boycott proceedings at the PCA and gave enough indications in January that it wanted to escalate the water conflict with Pakistan over sharing of Indus Basin water resources, which is governed by the 63-year-old Indus Water Treaty (IWT).

India’s reiteration of its demand for modifying the treaty bilaterally, without involving any third party has at the same time also created a deadlock. Pakistan looks unlikely to accept India’s demand at this point.

The World Bank, which negotiated the shaping and signing of the IWT of 1960, has initiated two separate processes – a court of arbitration at Pakistan’s request and appointing a neutral expert at India’s request – as the two countries did not agree on the mode of negotiations. India said two simultaneous processes are not permissible. Pakistan, however, is participating in both proceedings.

The PCA’s “unanimous decision” rejecting “each of the objections raised by India” also initiated the next phase of the proceedings, which will include addressing questions concerning the overall interpretation and application of the Treaty’s provisions on hydroelectric project design and operation. It will also consider the legal effect of past decisions taken by dispute resolution bodies.

India promptly responded by saying that it “cannot be compelled to recognize or participate in illegal and parallel proceedings not envisaged by the Treaty.”

The IWT allows India unrestricted use of the waters in the “eastern rivers” — Sutlej, Beas, Ravi, and their tributaries. The “western rivers” — the Indus, Jhelum, Chenab, and their tributaries — are allocated to Pakistan, can be used by India with certain restrictions.

At the core of the conflict is the design of India’s hydroelectric projects on the western rivers. Pakistan feels the designs allow India greater control over these water resources and can deprive Pakistan of its legitimate share. On the other hand, India thinks they should be allowed to build projects as per present scientific expertise and should not be restricted by six-decades-old technologies.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, an official at India’s Ministry of Jal Shakti (or water resources) (MoJS) said the government not only believes the 1960 Treaty gave “unnecessary concessions to Pakistan” but also thinks that climatic changes made the construction of hydel projects more complex, which is why the provisions of the IWT needs revisions “out of sheer practicality.”

According to Srinivas Chokkakula, MoJS research chair and lead, TREADS (Transboundary Rivers, Ecologies and Development Studies) at the New Delhi-based independent think-tank Centre for Policy Research, the kind of issues Pakistan has projected around Kishenganga are similar to the Baglihar dispute, in which the World Bank-appointed neutral expert’s 2007 decision was “reasonably well-argued” and favored India’s proceedings with the project.

“The neutral expert in the Baglihar case had rightly taken into account the technological advances, which were absent at the time of drafting the IWT. He went by the spirit of the Treaty. In my reading, Pakistan feared their current objections may meet a similar fate with the neutral expert and it has gone to the PCA expecting it to go by the letter of the Treaty. The wording of the Treaty does not accommodate for advances in technology,” he told The Diplomat.

Chokkakula, however, finds the World Bank’s decision to initiate two simultaneous processes “puzzling.”

“The PCA’s arguments may be legally justified but will it lead to any effectiveness? Arbitration between sovereign nations itself is about the initially agreed resolution process. If one party says it is not a party to it, how would the decision be given effect?” he asks.

Chokkakula feels that India has “a solid, legitimate demand” that when the technology has advanced and there are emerging risks like climate change, it is in the interest of both parties that these issues be accommodated, and contribute to the enduring relevance of the Treaty. “By denying these possibilities, Pakistan may be doing a disservice not only to the Treaty and its resilience but also its own interests,” he said.

Mian Ahmed Naeem Salik, a research fellow at the Islamabad-based think-tank Institute of Strategic Studies (ISSI), said that Pakistan believes in the full implementation of the IWT and its dispute resolution mechanism and that it will continue to uphold the IWT.

“Pakistan will continue to raise its voice in the international forum and try to find a resolution as both countries are unable to resolve the water issue bilaterally,” Salik told The Diplomat, adding that he believes India, too, should try to allay Pakistan’s concerns regarding dam designs. “Both countries are water scarce and the IWT provides a sound mechanism for both countries to address their water sharing issues,” he said.

Salik added that the Indus Water Commissioners from both sides should be empowered to work together and make rational decisions uninfluenced by the political situations. “Regular meetings between both sides and sharing of designs and data can help to prevent future problems from arising and need to be looked at. This is a very important issue for both countries and should be resolved amicably following the guidelines of IWT,” said Salik.

Indus water commissioners working without considering the domestic political situation is, perhaps, the most difficult among the challenges. As environmental historian Daniel Haines pointed out in a February 2023 article, political narratives in Pakistan “have cast the struggle for Indus waters as a matter of national survival.” Pakistan’s hardline stance on the treaty “has always been a product of fear,” he said.

“If India abrogates the treaty unilaterally, Pakistani leaders could view it as a deliberate attempt to destroy the country,” wrote Haines, who authored the book “Rivers Divided: Indus Basin Waters in the Making of India and Pakistan.” He added that the domestic costs of being seen to make concessions to India through renegotiation “would be too high to bear for any Pakistani leadership.”

On the other hand, he noted, even if discarding the treaty could harm India’s international reputation, “the BJP has consistently prioritized domestic politics over international opinion.”

According to Neeraj Singh Manhas, director of research in the Indo-Pacific Consortium at the New Delhi-based policy research think-tank Raisina House, India will wait for the neutral expert’s report. “If the report is not satisfactory to India, then it may consider taking the matter to the International Court of Justice,” he said. The next meeting of the neutral expert process is scheduled to be held in September 2023.

Manhas told The Diplomat that the recent developments around the PCA are a reminder of the importance of dialogue and cooperation between India and Pakistan. “The two countries need to find a way to resolve their differences peacefully, in a way that is fair to both sides,” he said, adding that “the best possible solution for both India and Pakistan would be to reach an agreement on the Kishenganga and Ratle projects outside of the court system.”

Meanwhile, India is busy expediting several other projects on the Indus River system, including its western rivers. On May 26, Deputy National Security Advisor Vikram Misri chaired the second meeting of the Indus Task Force and stressed the need for all Indus Basin projects to be completed in a time-bound manner “to enable better utilization of India’s rights under the Indus Waters Treaty.”

So you tell us what you want Modi to do.

 

AFAIK Pakistani delegation coming is in Indian interest as our investment is stuck and they can always ask Internationational bodies not to let us build the Dam and do a inquiry and then sit on that inquiry and apply for reinquiry and so on.

 

 

So when Congress gvmnyt signed the treaty in 1960 it was clueless and gave away far too much water then they should have.

Edited June 24, 2024 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

5 minutes ago, mishra said:

Clarify the issue here.As far as last year, I was aware that India was asking Pakistan to let us continue building dam, And they were saying no but Modi govmnt went ahead and started the work.

 

https://thediplomat.com/2023/07/india-rejects-hague-court-order-on-indus-water-treaty/

So you tell us what you want Modi to do. You are not being honest

You are changing goalposts know .. earlier you said Congress committed a blunder by green lighting those critical projects.

We know you are a fanboy of BJP but don't defend everything.

We could have easily refused the meet up in view of Reasi attack but hey as the Ceasefire is still in place more Aman ki Asha BTS is what Vishwaguru is after backed by Muricans 

[mishra]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

You are changing goalposts know .. earlier you said Congress committed a blunder by green lighting those critical projects.

We know you are a fanboy of BJP but don't defend everything.

We could have easily refused the meet up in view of Reasi attack but hey as the Ceasefire is still in place more Aman ki Asha BTS is what Vishwaguru is after backed by Muricans 

Now you are educated to understand that this trip was indian demand and in Indian interest. There was nothing For Pakistan to gain from trip but they can potentially and have been harming Indian project because of documents Congress signed by postponing the trip.

 

you are now advocating we should stop doing things which is solely for development of India and keep

giving more water to Pakistan because of Reasi terror attack.

Edited June 24, 2024 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

11 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Congress has accurate understanding.... Those projects are of geostrategic importance to us.

If govt. Keeps getting forced by CIA or Deep state to act against our interests like the ceasefire then they are of no use .

Vishwaguru might be another Zelensky in making .

Congress did you say? They want to talk to Pakistan and send dossiers on terrorists , talk to Hurriyat, give Padma award to  Yasin Malik. Good one 

[Lone Wolf]

Divine intervention indeed ..

 

[Lone Wolf]

7 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Congress did you say? They want to talk to Pakistan and send dossiers on terrorists , talk to Hurriyat, give Padma award to  Yasin Malik. Good one 

This government is basically doing the same or even worse... A ceasefire in place when our people are dying is phattu and stupid policy.

And yes ruling government has to make tough choices to keep peace in a place like Kashmir... At least it was safe enough to visit once upon a time for outsiders and do work.

Now most of the labour class and non Muslims employees have fled to Jammu for Shelter... And Vishwaguru is selling us His PR safety chooran.

[mishra]

45 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

This government is basically doing the same or even worse... A ceasefire in place when our people are dying is phattu and stupid policy.

And yes ruling government has to make tough choices to keep peace in a place like Kashmir... At least it was safe enough to visit once upon a time for outsiders and do work.

Now most of the labour class and non Muslims employees have fled to Jammu for Shelter... And Vishwaguru is selling us His PR safety chooran.

No, Its not. It is eliminating Terror heads, infact a Pakistani retired Brigadier too,  across the border has been eliminated.During previous regimes, Forget outsiders, even local Hindus were driven out of Kashmir.  Mumbai Delhi Banglore wasnt safe. So please do not compare Congress regime with current one. Congress regime was even shamelessly opposing removal of article 370 which was root cause of inaction or gurateed failure of any action by our Security Forces

Edited June 25, 2024 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

No Jai Hind but Jai Filisteen! And he expects that Indians should trust his patriotism.  Hypocrite. I am sure all wokes whose eyes are on Rafah will sing praises this for ages.

 

 

 
 

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

No, Its not. It is eliminating Terror heads, infact a Pakistani retired Brigadier too,  across the border has been eliminated.During previous regimes, Forget outsiders, even local Hindus were driven out of Kashmir.  Mumbai Delhi Banglore wasnt safe. So please do not compare Congress regime with current one. Congress regime was even shamelessly opposing removal of article 370 which was root cause of inaction or gurateed failure of any action by our Security Forces

That's crap and paid PR .... There are no more outside labourers in Kashmir after Targeted killings of Hindus and outsiders including Hindu employees from Jammu and KP's working there. I guess you were sleeping last year so many people were worried & there were hue and cry of KP KH and labour class from outside India...and LG was cutting salaries of employees.

All this to show there is peace in JK..

 

Regarding rest of India there have been public announcements by terror heads like Hafiz Saeed that they cannot do terror attacks outside JK or on civilians anymore after 26/11...due to international pressure.

 

Still there have been Pathankot airbase terror attack on one of our most secured bases... Post 26/11.

[Lone Wolf]

19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

No Jai Hind but Jai Filisteen! And he expects that Indians should trust his patriotism.  Hypocrite. I am sure all wokes whose eyes are on Rafah will sing praises this for ages.

 

 

 
 

BJP's B team toeing BJP's official line.

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

BJP's B team toeing BJP's official line.

As one loser actor puts it so nicely!

 

Kuch Bhi!!

 

[mishra]

30 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

That's crap and paid PR .... There are no more outside labourers in Kashmir after Targeted killings of Hindus and outsiders including Hindu employees from Jammu and KP's working there. I guess you were sleeping last year so many people were worried & there were hue and cry of KP KH and labour class from outside India...and LG was cutting salaries of employees.

All this to show there is peace in JK..

 

Regarding rest of India there have been public announcements by terror heads like Hafiz Saeed that they cannot do terror attacks outside JK or on civilians anymore after 26/11...due to international pressure.

 

Still there have been Pathankot airbase terror attack on one of our most secured bases... Post 26/11.

You have madeup your mind to make Congress regime better no matter what. It wasnt just 26/11. Paliament attack, Mumbai local Railways bombing, Bombing at various temples of India and many more happened without any response.

 

Now just for J& K. Look at chart.

 

https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/india-jammukashmir

Data View

Graph View

Chart View

Map view

•  
   

  Year	Incidents of Killing	Civilians	Security Forces	Terrorists/Insurgents/Extremists	Not Specified	Total
  2000*	1385	641	441	1708	9	2799
  2001	2084	1024	628	2345	14	4011
  2002	1642	837	447	1758	56	3098
  2003	1427	563	319	1504	121	2507
  2004	1061	437	318	962	72	1789
  2005	1004	454	220	987	56	1717
  2006	694	256	172	607	90	1125
  2007	427	127	119	498	0	744
  2008	261	71	85	382	0	538
  2009	208	53	73	247	0	373
  2010	189	34	69	258	0	361
  2011	119	33	31	117	0	181
  2012	70	19	18	84	0	121
  2013	84	19	53	100	0	172
  2014	91	28	47	114	0	189
  2015	86	19	41	115	0	175
  2016	112	14	88	165	0	267
  2017	163	54	83	220	0	357
  2018	206	86	95	271	0	452
  2019	135	42	78	163	0	283
  2020	140	33	56	232	0	321
  2021	153	36	45	193	0	274
  2022	151	30	30	193	0	253
  2023	72	12	33	87	2	134
  2024	22	17	2	18	0	37

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, mishra said:

You have madeup your mind to make Congress regime better no matter what. It wasnt just 26/11. Paliament attack, Mumbai local Railways bombing, Bombing at various temples of India and many more happened without any response.

 

Now just for J& K. Look at chart.

 

https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/india-jammukashmir

Data View

Graph View

Chart View

Map view

•  
   

  Year	Incidents of Killing	Civilians	Security Forces	Terrorists/Insurgents/Extremists	Not Specified	Total
  2000*	1385	641	441	1708	9	2799
  2001	2084	1024	628	2345	14	4011
  2002	1642	837	447	1758	56	3098
  2003	1427	563	319	1504	121	2507
  2004	1061	437	318	962	72	1789
  2005	1004	454	220	987	56	1717
  2006	694	256	172	607	90	1125
  2007	427	127	119	498	0	744
  2008	261	71	85	382	0	538
  2009	208	53	73	247	0	373
  2010	189	34	69	258	0	361
  2011	119	33	31	117	0	181
  2012	70	19	18	84	0	121
  2013	84	19	53	100	0	172
  2014	91	28	47	114	0	189
  2015	86	19	41	115	0	175
  2016	112	14	88	165	0	267
  2017	163	54	83	220	0	357
  2018	206	86	95	271	0	452
  2019	135	42	78	163	0	283
  2020	140	33	56	232	0	321
  2021	153	36	45	193	0	274
  2022	151	30	30	193	0	253
  2023	72	12	33	87	2	134
  2024	22	17	2	18	0	37

Are bhai Parliament attack happened under BJP kya hogaya.... And subsequent national humiliation when we pushed military to border only to find that Paxtan military was already mobilized and we backed off....

This was another Feb 29 2019 moment... Only on a larger scale 

Thank God I was too young to understand all that back then I wonder how patriots must have felt.

BJP has always been a disaster when it comes to national security & nothing proves otherwise.

They have pushed out military backwards in last 10 years too.

 

You are comparing numbers of Peak Pak terrorist infiltration days with a economically stronger Pakistan with its current beggar state.

A Congress government would not have given them a breather post Covid like BJP did..and gifted a ceasefire.

And ntm loss of land in Eastern Ladakh and Arunachal.

Can't change Dhando mentality overnight... 

 

Edited June 25, 2024 by Lone Wolf

[mishra]

37 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Are bhai Parliament attack happened under BJP kya hogaya.... And subsequent national humiliation when we pushed military to border only to find that Paxtan military was already mobilized and we backed off....

This was another Feb 29 2019 moment... Only on a larger scale 

Thank God I was too young to understand all that back then I wonder how patriots must have felt.

BJP has always been a disaster when it comes to national security & nothing proves otherwise.

They have pushed out military backwards in last 10 years too.

 

You are comparing numbers of Peak Pak terrorist infiltration days with a economically stronger Pakistan with its current beggar state.

A Congress government would not have given them a breather post Covid like BJP did..and gifted a ceasefire.

And ntm loss of land in Eastern Ladakh and Arunachal.

Can't change Dhando mentality overnight... 

 

All you needed was to do a google year by year. JUst giving you a example.

 

Quote

07/11/2006: A series of train bombings killed at least 188 civilians in Mumbai, India. The train bombing injured another 817 others injured in a string of seven blasts that spanned 56 kms, from Churchgate to Mira Road.

 

 

Since Mumbai Bomb blast we had a serius blast allmost every other month in some part of India which culminated with 26/11 and MMS made a deal with terrorists who were under American pressure for killing foreign nationals. That deal did not make terrorist any weak. They just used the time to regroup and re-organise while probably deal included that, Congress peddling Hindu terror narrative to do monkey balancing.

 

Now you understand what you are comparing to what. Victim of terror was being portrayed as terrorist because Congress made a deal with Terrorists

 

BJP came and  I can gurantee that we Kashmir will NOT have another HAfeez Saed, Kandhar,Kanishka, Bitta,Burhan wani. Those days are gone.

Edited June 25, 2024 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

As one loser actor puts it so nicely!

 

Kuch Bhi!!

 

Palestainans and Joos on Indians

 

[gattaca]

38 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Are bhai Parliament attack happened under BJP kya hogaya.... And subsequent national humiliation when we pushed military to border only to find that Paxtan military was already mobilized and we backed off....

This was another Feb 29 2019 moment... Only on a larger scale 

Thank God I was too young to understand all that back then I wonder how patriots must have felt.

BJP has always been a disaster when it comes to national security & nothing proves otherwise.

They have pushed out military backwards in last 10 years too.

 

You are comparing numbers of Peak Pak terrorist infiltration days with a economically stronger Pakistan with its current beggar state.

A Congress government would not have given them a breather post Covid like BJP did..and gifted a ceasefire.

And ntm loss of land in Eastern Ladakh and Arunachal.

Can't change Dhando mentality overnight... 

 

Congress govt in 2008 was terrible. We had 26/11, multiple in Mumbai trains, Hyderabad public garden and chat house. People were dying of some random blast and Pakistan was behind all of this. The home minister was on news channels and doing nothing. What BJP did was invoke the blacklisting of Pakistan on terror charges. This was one of the brilliant moves and Pakistan no longer attacks civilians in India except J and K  instead it is mostly military installations. Even Kashmirs seems to be turning around may be within a decade it might go away. LT Gen KJS Dillion mentioned the routing the last part is tough as it very disperse and sporadic and will take time. Congress had no plan except complaining about 26/11 the reason why they lost 2014 elections. 

Edited June 25, 2024 by gattaca

[Lone Wolf]

Just now, mishra said:

All you needed was to do a google year by year.

 

 

 

Since Mumbai Bomb blast we had a serius blast allmost every other month in some part of India which culminated with 26/11 and MMS made a deal with terrorists who were under American pressure for killing foreign nationals. That deal did not make terrorist any weak. They just used the time to regroup and re-organise.

 

Then came Modi and BJP. So people like us, They exactly remember the state India was In. Your complain that terrorist must be dealt is correct , but please dont compare with Congress era. They simply effed India with their inaction. Kashmir will NOT have another HAfeez Saed, Bitta,Burhan wani. Those days are gone.

PAFF is unofficial branch of Hafiz Saeed's LeT which is doing terror attacks in Poonch Rajouri.... They just change name to avoid International outrage..kya yaar

[gattaca]

1 minute ago, Lone Wolf said:

Palestainans and Joos on Indians

 

Someone remind these random idiots it was Indian soilders that liberated port HAIFA.