The 4 basic qualities needed to be a top pacer .... and tracking Indian pacers who have them now

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think everyone is scared about our batting.

Something which we used to excel in the past..now its so unreliable that we have to depend on a no 8 to bail us out.

 

That would lead to Shardul ahead of Shami / Siraj for the 3rd pacer's slot. 

 

The 2nd pacer's slot is a different issue. Siraj should be the logical choice based on super performances in the last year in ODIs ... but Shami may get in as the bigger name. 

[putrevus]

50 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think everyone is scared about our batting.

Something which we used to excel in the past..now its so unreliable that we have to depend on a no 8 to bail us out.

So true, once Kohli lost his mojo in whiteball cricket, batting has been very unreliable.There is nobody to hold one end up like we saw in Australian series. 

 

They are unable to chase even 270s.

[AKane]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

That would lead to Shardul ahead of Shami / Siraj for the 3rd pacer's slot. 

 

I mean if we are scared about the batting - Shardul is not the cure. The cure is to get the right batsmen.

 

Shardul is hardly a 99 Klusener who can mask batting deficiencies. He is at best - at best a Madan Lal type batsman who can sometimes have an Abid Ali type of game while batting. However the notable Shardul innings while batting have all been in tests. I have never seen him do that kind of batting in ODIs and ever since Dravid became coach his batting has regressed.

Edited August 22 by AKane

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

I mean if we are scared about the batting - Shardul is not the cure. The cure is to get the right batsmen.

 

Shardul is hardly a 99 Klusener who can mask batting deficiencies. He is at best - at best a Madan Lal type batsman who can sometimes have an Abid Ali type of game while batting. However the notable Shardul innings while batting have all been in tests. I have never seen him do that kind of batting in ODIs and ever since Dravid became coach his batting has regressed.

 

I agree.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

I mean if we are scared about the batting - Shardul is not the cure. The cure is to get the right batsmen.

 

Shardul is hardly a 99 Klusener who can mask batting deficiencies. He is at best - at best a Madan Lal type batsman who can sometimes have an Abid Ali type of game while batting. However the notable Shardul innings while batting have all been in tests. I have never seen him do that kind of batting in ODIs and ever since Dravid became coach his batting has regressed.

The root cause of all issues since 2019.

[Strangering]

Haris Rauf ... 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

That would lead to Shardul ahead of Shami / Siraj for the 3rd pacer's slot. 

 

The 2nd pacer's slot is a different issue. Siraj should be the logical choice based on super performances in the last year in ODIs ... but Shami may get in as the bigger name. 

It will be unfortunate, Shami is not at his best from last couple of years while Siraj is at its peak. If we miss this opportunity then by 2027 none of Bumrah or Siraj would be the force which they're now.

Siraj and Bumrah should be our main pacers, Shami will pitch in between based on pitches and opponents.

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think everyone is scared about our batting.

Something which we used to excel in the past..now its so unreliable that we have to depend on a no 8 to bail us out.

 

Pathetic lower order has a cascading pyschological effect. Your plan gets impacted when you have someone who is guaranteed to fail 90% of the times. You shut the shop much too early after a collapse even in T20. It was painful to watch batsmen denying singles in 19th over even in T20.  It is not like your no.6 and no.7 are match winners with bat.  They themselves are support casts at best. That leaves us with 5 "so called" specialist batsmen. That is an ultra light weight unit. You will need near perfect games in every match in all departments. They also suck in fielding. Yuvraj, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Raina, Gambhi were also safe fielders in comparison.

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

It will be unfortunate, Shami is not at his best from last couple of years while Siraj is at its peak. If we miss this opportunity then by 2027 none of Bumrah or Siraj would be the force which they're now.

Siraj and Bumrah should be our main pacers, Shami will pitch in between based on pitches and opponents.

Highly unlikely that Shami will be dropped. Most probably, it will be Bumrah, Shami and Siraj all three playing as Siraj has warranted his spot through consistent performances in ODIs.

 

Spinners will be Kuldeep and Jadeja. I don't see Shardul making it to the XI. For batting, the top 7 have to take care. Shami and Bumrah can slog at 8 and 9 if required. Kuldeep can block too if more overs left.

 

 

[tapandrun]

In white-ball these days if a team wants to be competitive they need proper batters till no.8.

 

Ind has been scoring par/sub par scores for a v.long time. Ind batting style is from an era 10 years back. No one plays modern cricketing shots.

None of Ind bowler in white ball be trusted with quick 10-15 runs.Ind ran like this for a v.long time and now it has come to bite them.

 

Now a days there  can be only 1 or max 2 bowlers who can not bat, but Ind has 3/4 in white ball.

 

Ind could field a v.good test bowling line-up and should have inducted bowler like Sen in test by now, Shami should have been pahsed-out. 

Imo Bhumrha should also be phased out of test.

 

Ind will have to play Thakur in white-ball just because he gives a bit of hope that he can bat.

Baring the last match agianst Pak Rana looked good in IPL and the other matched he played in emgng cup. He can bat has well.

 

Ind team should have played all fast bowler attack in WI and Ire series(list below). With below bowler as Ind TM has already made-up their mids on spinners - Jadeja, Axar, Yadav.

 

Bhumrah

Krishna

Rana

Umran

Sen

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Bhumrha should also be phased out of test.

 

 

 

No !

 

In tests the Indian bowling attack with Bumrah is far far better than without Bumrah. 

Edited August 24 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:00 AM, singhvivek141 said:

The root cause of all issues since 2019.

 The ODI batting has gone to ****.  No matter what personnel we play, a batting lineup with Pandya starting at 6 and Jadeja at 7 will not win anything.  And then, people will blame the bowling attack. We have seen this too many times.

 

I partly blame Virat Kohli for this. At his peak, he used to bat for long periods of time and used to build his innings taking a lot of time without taking risks initially. 

 

This gave everyone the illusion that we didn't need too many batsmen.  

 

I'm increasingly beginning to appreciate what Sehwag (2008-2011) brought as an ODI batsman.  Fast, aggressive starts with plenty of overs for the middle and lower middle order to bat and to set up above par scores for that era.

 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

11 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

Ind could field a v.good test bowling line-up and should have inducted bowler like Sen in test by now, Shami should have been pahsed-out. 

Imo Bhumrha should also be phased out of test.

Shami can be phased out by 2024. But Bumrah shouldn't till 2027, because Siraj still isn't that good in Tests.

 

Sen & Prasidh should be part of Test setup along with Bumrah and Siraj they should be rotated as the 2 pacers while Harshit or Hangargekar can play as your bowling allrounder at no 8.

Bumrah is a must for Tests..he can pick and choose while ball formats but I will definitely play him in Tests (specially in SENA).

 

[express bowling]

Our team needs a reasonably accurate express pacer who can crank it up beyond 145 kph at will. 

 

Someone who can shake things up with pace and bounce. Something which Bumrah did from 2017 to 2021. But he maybe more 140-145 after his injury. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Our team needs a reasonably accurate express pacer who can crank it up beyond 145 kph at will. 

 

Someone who can shake things up with pace and bounce. Something which Bumrah did from 2017 to 2021. But he maybe more 140-145 after his injury. 

Umran Malik is only one. Kartik very close.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Our team needs a reasonably accurate express pacer who can crank it up beyond 145 kph at will. 

 

Someone who can shake things up with pace and bounce. Something which Bumrah did from 2017 to 2021. But he maybe more 140-145 after his injury. 

 

Bumrah had cricketing smarts as well. Not brainless like Umesh. yadav.

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Umran Malik is only one. Kartik very close.

 

I will watch Mayank Yadav very closely in the upcoming IPL. He looked a yard quicker than Harshit in the Zonal matches, and Harshit himself bowls 137 to 147. 

 

Mayank is much more bouncy than Umran and is smarter too. 

Edited August 24 by express bowling

[AKane]

5 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Shami can be phased out by 2024. But Bumrah shouldn't till 2027, because Siraj still isn't that good in Tests.

Just as a side note Bumrah and Siraj are almost the same age. Siraj younger by 3 or 4 months.

 

So if Bumrah reaches sell by date in 2027, Siraj does too.

[Lord]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:01 PM, express bowling said:

Our team needs a reasonably accurate express pacer who can crank it up beyond 145 kph at will. 

 

Someone who can shake things up with pace and bounce. Something which Bumrah did from 2017 to 2021. But he maybe more 140-145 after his injury. 

 

Prasidh and Tyagi seem most promising options. Umran is quick but short and seems to lack control and game awareness.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Prasidh and Tyagi seem most promising options. Umran is quick but short and seems to lack control and game awareness.

 

Prasidh is Fast but not express pace. 

 

Tyagi can be express.