Lone Wolf Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Interesting question. Got me thinking. Sunny is obviously the bigger commercial success. But has he ever essayed a role where he doesn't have to, you know, scream at the top of his lungs? He has his niche which he has exploited well. Ruptured a few ear drums in the process. Dharam Paaji is a far better actor. He's done it all. Romance. Comedy. Action. Drama. The only thing is that its very difficult to remember a hit film of Dharam Paaji where he didn't have another co-star. Those were the days of the multi starrers. AB overshadowed him in Sholay. Vinod K overshadowed him in 'mera gaon mera des' Sunny on the other hand, has hits delivered solely on the prowess of his acting chops/ funny dance moves and crossing the permissible decibel levels. Dharam Paaji started his Bollywood career nearly a decade before AB. So there was a time when he was the leading man in the industry. Watched Mera Gaon Mera Des.. A while ago. Vinod Khanna really carried that whole movie & stole the show in a negative role. Man had looks + range. There are many conspiracy theories about Mahesh Bhatt convincing to go to Osho as he was dealing with Personal crisis + Drugs... Shashi Kapoor in his autobiography said Amitabh didn't like to share spotlight with anyone in a co starrrer movie. There was certain competition between these guys. ravishingravi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) AB has been "overshadowed" by varying margins by his co-stars in many films mainly due to the fact that he played the angry young man role monotonously. Below are a few films (from the top of the mind recall): Early films Anand - Rajesh Khanna Namak Harram - Rajesh Khanna Roti Kapda Aur Makaan - Manoj Kumar (obviously) Sholay (was not a superstar when he was signed to do the film) - Amjad Khan & on par with Sanjeev and Dharmendra Chupke Chupke - Dharmendra Top-billed films Hera Pheri - Vinod Khanna (marginal but worth a mention) Parvarish - Vinod Khanna Ram Balram - Dharmendra Naseeb - Shatrughan (shines in emotional scenes) Kaala Patthar - Shatrughan (a relatively limited role but made it memorable) Dostana - Shatrughan (a slight edge to Shatru w/ AB more or less repeating his Zanjeer role) Shakti - Dilip Kumar Multi-starer films where AB more or less shone brighter than others: Deewar Amar Akbar Anthony Trishul Muqaddar Ka Sikandar Suhaag Namak Halaal Edited September 4, 2023 by zen ravishingravi and Lone Wolf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, zen said: AB has been "overshadowed" by varying margins by his co-stars in many films mainly due to the fact that he played the angry young man role monotonously. Below are a few films (from the top of the mind recall): Early films Anand - Rajesh Khanna Namak Haram - Rajesh Khanna Roti Kapda Aur Makaan - Manoj Kumar (obviously) Sholay (was not a superstar when he was signed to do the film) - Amjad Khan & on par with Sanjeev and Dharmendra Chupke Chupke - Dharmendra Top-billed films Hera Pheri - Vinod Khanna (slight edge) Parvarish - Vinod Khanna Ram Balram - Dharmendra Naseeb - Shatrughan Kala Pathar - Shatrughan Dostana - Shatrughan Shakti - Dilip Kumar Multi-starer films where AB more or less shone brighter than others: Deewar Amar Akbar Anthony Trishul Muqaddar Ka Sikandar You are just listing all his multi-starrers and your opinion on who overshadowed whom. I have a different list and opinion. It is all fan talk. It all depends on who producers thought was a bigger sell. After AAA, there was no other star who the producers were lining up to get AB in their movies. He was a one man industry till Mard! Only actor who came close was Vinod Khanna until his Osho indulgence Lone Wolf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 1 minute ago, coffee_rules said: You are just listing all his multi-starrers and your opinion on who overshadowed whom. I have a different list and opinion. It is all fan talk. It all depends on who producers thought was a bigger sell. After AAA, there was no other star who the producers were lining up to get AB in their movies. He was a one man industry till Mard! Only actor who came close was Vinod Khanna until his Osho indulgence I am not talking about the star power but performances in multi starrer films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 9 minutes ago, zen said: I am not talking about the star power but performances in multi starrer films. And all overshadowed talk is subjective. He got the meatier roles after AAA. He was upcoming during Namak Haram. A lot of advisors to RajeshK advised him not to take the role. But AB got better of RK in that secondary hero role. He even got a FF award as well, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: And all overshadowed talk is subjective. He got the meatier roles after AAA. He was upcoming during Namak Haram. A lot of advisors to RajeshK advised him not to take the role. But AB got better of RK in that secondary hero role. He even got a FF award as well, I think In many films, he has been "overshadowed" despite a relatively meaty role (at times due to playing a similar character) as listed in my previous post. I have also listed films where he has shone brighter than others. This is from a neutral perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 3 hours ago, zen said: In many films, he has been "overshadowed" despite a relatively meaty role (at times due to playing a similar character) as listed in my previous post. I have also listed films where he has shone brighter than others. This is from a neutral perspective. It’s a stretch to say RK was better than him Namak Haram. https://youtu.be/80MdXN4hTpM?si=TeMXZT9J37fJVBO6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: It’s a stretch to say RK was better than him Namak Haram. https://youtu.be/80MdXN4hTpM?si=TeMXZT9J37fJVBO6 He was including in songs such as “main shayar badnam” and “Nadya se dariya”. AB was good in the support act and more or less on one plane. RK gave the superstar vibes (and he was the superstar in that period). He interacts with characters played by Rekha, Asrani, Raza Murad, etc. to add more emotional depth to his character. Edited September 5, 2023 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 51 minutes ago, zen said: He was including in songs such as “main shayar badnam” and “Nadya se dariya”. AB was good in the support act and more or less on one plane. RK gave the superstar vibes (and he was the superstar in that period). He interacts with characters played by Rekha, Asrani, Raza Murad, etc. to add more emotional depth to his character. You are stating the obvious. Overshadowed means in the he scenes together in the same frame , AB overshadowed with freshness of acting, diction, body language , screen presence etc. same with Dilip Kumar ran away in scenes of Shakti.,it is called a scene stealer. RK was in a downhill path then as a superstar. Of course, AB was a support cast, he got the FF award in the micas the best actor in a supporting role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: You are stating the obvious. Overshadowed means in the he scenes together in the same frame , AB overshadowed with freshness of acting, diction, body language , screen presence etc. same with Dilip Kumar ran away in scenes of Shakti.,it is called a scene stealer. RK was in a downhill path then as a superstar. Of course, AB was a support cast, he got the FF award in the micas the best actor in a supporting role. For a 1973 film in 2023, it is about how it has aged (not "freshness"). RK's performance is relatively with more dimensions, while AB's is relatively monotonous and it could be from any film where he plays the angry young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevada Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 17 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Kya baat kar raha. I am saying this a heterosexual straight man, Dharmendra in 50-70s was the most handsome looking of all heroes. Also, a versatile actor who had a range of roles from Haqeeqat, Satyakaam, to even comedy roles in Chuke Chupke. His action hero movies in 70s (mera gaon mera desh) was a pre-cursor to Sholay type movies Sunny Deol as an actor is typecasted to Ghayal, Damini, Ghatak and Gadar type of action hero., He has not overshadowed his dad one bit Sunny had big, bombastic hits while Dharam had a steady career with longevity. But as an actor, Deol Sr is far superior. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Dharam ji in 'Pal Pal Dil ke Paas' looks so handsome and romantic. ravishingravi and coffee_rules 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) Btw, Dharmendra has had many super hit to blockbuster films (would be interesting to see their numbers when adjusted for inflation) such as: Ayee Milan Ki Bela Phool Aur Patthar Aankhen Mere Goan Mera Desh Seeta Aur Geeta Jugnu Yaadon Ki Baaraat Sholay Dharam Veer Additionally, he had many average, semi-hit, and hit films as well which would have done decent business ... PS His notable flops (though still a good watch) include Shalimar and Krodhi. Edited September 6, 2023 by zen coffee_rules and ravishingravi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 On 9/4/2023 at 10:26 PM, zen said: For a 1973 film in 2023, it is about how it has aged (not "freshness"). RK's performance is relatively with more dimensions, while AB's is relatively monotonous and it could be from any film where he plays the angry young man. I see old movies in a different context, not how it has aged. But rather how it was tuned to that era’s sensibilities. A lot of Manoj Kumar movies are so bad in picturization , but it was acceptable then. Test of time is a bad way to judge movies. RK’s characterization in Namak Haram was repeated earlier so much in other movies like Anand, Khamoshi etc , it was not as fresh. AB’s characterization of angry young man was fresh for 1974 and hence it clicked better with that audience. The fact that his persona was repeated after that since 1974 in many movies is immaterial to judge his performance in Namak Haram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 19 hours ago, nevada said: Sunny had big, bombastic hits while Dharam had a steady career with longevity. But as an actor, Deol Sr is far superior. Comparing different eras in bombastic hits, you will be surprised! If inflation adjusted, Dharmendra’s hits like Sholay, Mera gaon mera desh etc. will surpass Sunny Deol’s. nevada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 23 minutes ago, zen said: Btw, Dharmendra has had many super hit to blockbuster films (would be interesting to see their numbers when adjusted for inflation) such as: Ayee Milan Ki Bela Phool Aur Patthar Aankhen Mere Goan Mera Desh Seeta Aur Geeta Jugnu Sholay Dharam Veer Additionally, he had many average, semi-hit, and hit films as well which would have done decent business ... PS His major flops (though still a good watch) include Shalimar and Krodhi. IMDb lists https://m.imdb.com/list/ls069056295/ zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: I see old movies in a different context, not how it has aged. But rather how it was tuned to that era’s sensibilities. A lot of Manoj Kumar movies are so bad in picturization , but it was acceptable then. Test of time is a bad way to judge movies. RK’s characterization in Namak Haram was repeated earlier so much in other movies like Anand, Khamoshi etc , it was not as fresh. AB’s characterization of angry young man was fresh for 1974 and hence it clicked better with that audience. The fact that his persona was repeated after that since 1974 in many movies is immaterial to judge his performance in Namak Haram. Ok, but "freshness" does not necessarily equate to better performance. AB was closer to a villain and had many similar scenes where he is required to "shout" angrily ... RK's in Namak Haram was played as per the role. Even in the clip that you posted earlier, that is how RK should have played it, attempting to make AB understand in a humble fashion after his experiences with the employees. Earlier, he was a little arrogant too. That was part of the transformation of his character, while AB was still stuck in his world (only changing at the end). Edited September 6, 2023 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 7 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Comparing different eras in bombastic hits, you will be surprised! If inflation adjusted, Dharmendra’s hits like Sholay, Mera gaon mera desh etc. will surpass Sunny Deol’s. True, but Dharam paaji was not the main protagonist in either. AB and Vinod had the more memorable roles. Or at least half a decade later it is those that are spoken about. Would Sholay have become the block buster it is, if someone else did Dharam paaji's role? Probably would Would it have been the block buster it is, if AB was replaced by someone else? Not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: True, but Dharam paaji was not the main protagonist in either. AB and Vinod had the more memorable roles. Or at least half a decade later it is those that are spoken about. Would Sholay have become the block buster it is, if someone else did Dharam paaji's role? Probably would Would it have been the block buster it is, if AB was replaced by someone else? Not a chance. Maybe I was overstating Dharmendra’s box office draw in multi-starrers. He has given many solo hits too like Phool Aur Patthar, Anupama, Aankhen, but they were not monstrous. I liked Dharmendra’s role in Sholay more than AB’s , he had some good humorous lines and had good timing. He had more star power as well when Sholay was made. Edited September 6, 2023 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Dharamendra's variety is something one never hears of. Just an amazing range from Satyakam to Chupke Chupke. zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts