Should we bring back Ashwin?

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Tilak is untested as a part timer. He didn't even bowl in IPL.  We have no evidence he can  do what Yuvi or even Raina did. He has played 26 matched bowled 40 overs. That is just over 1 over per innings. How can you trust him with5 overs. Atleast Parag is a genuine off spinner.

Noone is asking him to do any such thing. 

 

Parag is not even in contention why are you bringing him into picture. That question needs to be asked to selectors. 

 

Tilak Verma has been selected to play against Australia that is why there is a discussion about it.

 

Why do you come up with names just to give out names.

 

That is why I said Verma has two matches to prove himself.Everyone was untested in 2007 world t20 also , having one untested player won't harm the team.

Edited September 19 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

The last time Ashwin was a competent ODI spinner was 2015 World Cup. Utter rubbish that this is even being considered. We lost our only hitter spin all-rounder for a guy who was relevant 8 years ago in this format? 

 

 

[vivek04]

Ashwin is not a wicket taker in odis. His fielding is average at best. His only weapon is decent run rate and somewhat calibre in batting which is not good enough as per present style of batting. Inducting him in the team is a 2 step back decision.

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, vivek04 said:

Ashwin is not a wicket taker in odis. His fielding is average at best. His only weapon is decent run rate and somewhat calibre in batting which is not good enough as per present style of batting. Inducting him in the team is a 2 step back decision.

 

This seems to be experimental. If he does okay in Australian series he will have a shot. I think in the absence of Axar, Sundar is their no.1 option.

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

To me 17(16) trumphs over 28(27) as Ashwin's bowling might be lot better on spinning wicket.

 

Going by form other than jadeja, everyone who are going to play in playing eleven have scored runs or taken wickets.

 

So who are we talking about not scoring runs or taken wicket by recent form? other than SKY.

 

The reason I liked Tilak over all these players is he might get you 50(30) from batting at number 7 and Jadeja can bat at number 8 then.

 

He might give you 5 overs for 25 to 30 runs.

You need to see if Tilak fits at no 7 or not.

He is not like Rinku or Jitesh who is comfortable batting at 6/7, Tilak is more suited for 4/5.

 

On his bowling, I believe he is not a 5 over bowler at the moment. Ofcourse, he can roll his arm if TM wants to, but you would expect some consistency from him as a bowler then he should be bowling a lot more than what he is now. Yuvi in 2011 was told months before the WC that he will have to contribute with ball, and he practised a lot maintaining his rhythm, I really doubt Tilak would have told to do that.

 

Tilak is a talented player and I hope he become a 4-7 over bowler for us in ODI, but he seems undercooked as a bowler now and I don't want him to get crucified just because TM wasn't proactive and threw him in the water.

 

For Ash vs Sundar, the recent stats show a different picture, Sundar & Ash are almost as good as bowlers but Sundar is a better bat (in white ball).

I guess we are mixing Ashwin's red ball supremacy in limited overs format.

Edited September 20 by singhvivek141

[saneindian]

2011 WC: Ashwin

2023 WC: Sundar

 

The difference is Sundar has much more international experience than Ashwin, who was a relative rookie for that 2011 WC, having played less than 15 international games and being part of the Indian squad for less than 12 months preceding the WC.

 

I hope they back Sundar and allow him to bat at 6/7 in the Aus series.

[Nikhil_cric]

8 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

You need to see if Tilak fits at no 7 or not.

He is not like Rinku or Jitesh who is comfortable batting at 6/7, Tilak is more suited for 4/5.

 

On his bowling, I believe he is not a 5 over bowler at the moment. Ofcourse, he can roll his arm if TM wants to, but you would expect some consistency from him as a bowler then he should be bowling a lot more than what he is now. Yuvi in 2011 was told months before the WC that he will have to contribute with ball, and he practised a lot maintaining his rhythm, I really doubt Tilak would have told to do that.

 

Tilak is a talented player and I hope he become a 4-7 over bowler for us in ODI, but he seems undercooked as a bowler now and I don't want him to get crucified just because TM wasn't proactive and threw him in the water.

 

For Ash vs Sundar, the recent stats show a different picture, Sundar & Ash are almost as good as bowlers but Sundar is a better bat (in white ball).

I guess we are mixing Ashwin's red ball supremacy in limited overs format.

I think we can get 5 overs out of Tilak. He actually puts over spin on the ball and doesn't dart it in round arm although even that is ok.

 

He wont be worse than Travis Head and Glenn Philips 

 

But I'm not sure he's a finisher either .  Probably bat at 5 or 6 and push Hardik to 7.

 

Because 4 is also a tough place to bat for a newcomer in ODI's.

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

You need to see if Tilak fits at no 7 or not.

He is not like Rinku or Jitesh who is comfortable batting at 6/7, Tilak is more suited for 4/5.

 

On his bowling, I believe he is not a 5 over bowler at the moment. Ofcourse, he can roll his arm if TM wants to, but you would expect some consistency from him as a bowler then he should be bowling a lot more than what he is now. Yuvi in 2011 was told months before the WC that he will have to contribute with ball, and he practised a lot maintaining his rhythm, I really doubt Tilak would have told to do that.

 

Tilak is a talented player and I hope he become a 4-7 over bowler for us in ODI, but he seems undercooked as a bowler now and I don't want him to get crucified just because TM wasn't proactive and threw him in the water.

 

For Ash vs Sundar, the recent stats show a different picture, Sundar & Ash are almost as good as bowlers but Sundar is a better bat (in white ball).

I guess we are mixing Ashwin's red ball supremacy in limited overs format.

Let us take Tilak's case first.He has played enough t20s so IMO he should be fine at any slot from 4-7.

 

As far his bowling is concerned, I agree asking 5 overs might be lottery. But I feel like you can squeeze 5 overs from a non regular bowler if captain picks and chooses their overs carefully. As these matches are being played in India chances are increased in getting five overs..

 

Can it back fire, yes it can backfire.But getting 20 overs out Jadeja/Pandya/Tilak is possible. As he is the best option with the bat.

 

Between Sundar and Ashwin, I will take Ashwin anyday in any format.

Edited September 20 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Let us take Tilak's case first.He has played enough t20s so IMO he should be fine at any slot from 4-7.

 

As far his bowling is concerned, I agree asking 5 overs might be lottery. But I feel like you can squeeze 5 overs from a non regular bowler if captain picks and chooses their overs carefully. As these matches are being played in India chances are increased in getting five overs..

 

Can it back fire, yes it can backfire.But getting 20 overs out Jadeja/Pandya/Tilak is possible. As he is the best option with the bat.

 

Between Sundar and Ashwin, I will take Ashwin anyday in any format.

So you are saying Jadeja will continue to play and Tilak will be used as 7th bowler?

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

So you are saying Jadeja will continue to play and Tilak will be used as 7th bowler?

Jadeja will be ok but he and Ashwin should be played according to situation.

 

If Tilak is picked Ashwin is not there.

 

How will Tilak be 7th bowler???

Edited September 20 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Jadeja will be ok but he and Ashwin should be played according to situation.If Ashwin is picked.

 

If Tilak is picked Ashwin is not there.

 

How will Tilak be 7th bowler???

So, what will be your 6-11 in the first match?

[putrevus]

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

So, what will be your 6-11 in the first match?

Same as finals of Asia cup but it will be Tilak instead of Sundar.

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Same as finals of Asia cup but it will be Tilak instead of Sundar.

Ok, got it.

[Lone Wolf]

Fraudeja is Vice Captain lol for Aus series.  He is a lock & likely to screw us spectacularly in a big game in WC...  Or will play a cameo inns that will make him a martyr &,  he will sneak into 2024 T20 WC as well. 

People will call him bezzt all rounder over Stokes... Fighter,  best fielder (who can't hit a direct throw) 

Tilak ain't replacing him.  Let the kid play Asian Games & win gold medal against Poyzz. 

[Nikhil_cric]

13 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Fraudeja is Vice Captain lol for Aus series.  He is a lock & likely to screw us spectacularly in a big game in WC...  Or will play a cameo inns that will make him a martyr &,  he will sneak into 2024 T20 WC as well. 

People will call him bezzt all rounder over Stokes... Fighter,  best fielder (who can't hit a direct throw) 

Tilak ain't replacing him.  Let the kid play Asian Games & win gold medal against Poyzz. 

We ain't winning with the combinations and players we have chosen. This team has too many weaknesses to exploit but we are focussed on big names and gut feel  rather than data and strategy. 

 

Only chance is if we can somehow get this squad

 

Batters.                    Reserves

 

Ishan(wk)                     SKY(off spin)

Rohit                            Samson

Kohli                             Umran Malik

Shubman

KL

Shreyas(off spin)

Varma (off spin)

 

All-rounders

 

Pandya

Thakur

Axar (if unfit, Washi)

 

 

Bowlers

 

Siraj

Bumrah

Prasidh

Shami

Kuldeep

 

 

This should cover a lot of areas and they have to get part time spin from guys mentioned.  SKY as reserve for one of Varma/Iyer and Samson as reserve for the keepers.  Umran for pacers .

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

Jadeja was the best player in 2019 semis.If he had any help from over the hill Dhoni he would have won that match.

 

Bumrah keeps laying egg after egg in the most important matches but Jadeja is the problem.

 

He does not have to play every match but once Axar is gone he is must in the squad.

 

Edited September 20 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Jadeja was the best player in 2019 semis.If he had any help from over the hill Dhoni he would have won that match.

 

Bumrah keeps laying egg after egg in the most important matches but Jadeja is the problem.

 

He does not have to play every match but once Axar is gone he is must in the squad.

 

Bumrah took Guptill's wicket early in 2019 semifinal and had Taylor when he was on 22  and any decent keeper would have caught that but Dhoni could not get down in time. 

 

Bumrah has superbly all match. 

 

Taylor then went on to score 74 .

 

Chahal then proceeded to get smashed by Taylor at the death. 

 

NZ played 3 pacers + Neesham whereas we played the extra spinner who got whacked out of the park. 

 

Then we had a middle order with Pant in only his 8th innings , perpetually useless DK and a Dhoni who was completely exposed both as a keeper and batter.

 

After all that, you blame Bumrah for the loss? 

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Bumrah took Guptill's wicket early in 2019 semifinal and had Taylor when he was on 22  and any decent keeper would have caught that but Dhoni could not get down in time. 

 

Bumrah has superbly all match. 

 

Taylor then went on to score 74 .

 

Chahal then proceeded to get smashed by Taylor at the death. 

 

NZ played 3 pacers + Neesham whereas we played the extra spinner who got whacked out of the park. 

 

Then we had a middle order with Pant in only his 8th innings , perpetually useless DK and a Dhoni who was completely exposed both as a keeper and batter.

 

After all that, you blame Bumrah for the loss? 

 

 

Did anyone stop Bumrah from claiming more than one wicket and one dropped catch in great bowling conditions. Dropped catches are part of the game.

 

So just because a catch was dropped , poor Bumrah was not able to even sniff another wicket.So that makes everything alright with Bumrah.

 

That was not his lone stinker in knock out matches. Tell me which knockout match has he showed up in any format.He has been a utter failure in every knockout match he has played so far.

 

Yet you keep on hammering with your nonsense about Jadeja. As if he is the reason behind India's lack of success. 

 

Chahal was hammered becuase guys like Bumrah , Bhuvi and Pandya were so ineffective in excellent bowling conditions. 

 

Jadeja played a  lone hand that day.Jadeja will have again role to play in this world cup too.It is not his fault India is unable to produce allrounders.

 

 Bumrah might not be sole reason for India stinking in knock out matches but his ineffectiveness in pressure matches is a major reason for India not doing anything in knock out matches since 2016. 

 

 

Edited September 20 by putrevus

[IndianRenegade]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

We ain't winning with the combinations and players we have chosen. This team has too many weaknesses to exploit but we are focussed on big names and gut feel  rather than data and strategy. 

 

Only chance is if we can somehow get this squad

 

Batters.                    Reserves

 

Ishan(wk)                     SKY(off spin)

Rohit                            Samson

Kohli                             Umran Malik

Shubman

KL

Shreyas(off spin)

Varma (off spin)

 

All-rounders

 

Pandya

Thakur

Axar (if unfit, Washi)

 

 

Bowlers

 

Siraj

Bumrah

Prasidh

Shami

Kuldeep

 

 

This should cover a lot of areas and they have to get part time spin from guys mentioned.  SKY as reserve for one of Varma/Iyer and Samson as reserve for the keepers.  Umran for pacers .

 

 

 

 

off-spin doing a lot of lifting here considering none of them proven in matches that they are able bowl and full fill this role.

[Nikhil_cric]

55 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Did anyone stop Bumrah from claiming more than one wicket and one dropped catch in great bowling conditions. Dropped catches are part of the game.

 

So just because a catch was dropped , poor Bumrah was not able to even sniff another wicket.So that makes everything alright with Bumrah.

 

That was not his lone stinker in knock out matches. Tell me which knockout match has he showed up in any format.He has been a utter failure in every knockout match he has played so far.

 

Yet you keep on hammering with your nonsense about Jadeja. As if he is the reason behind India's lack of success. 

 

Chahal was hammered becuase guys like Bumrah , Bhuvi and Pandya were so ineffective in excellent bowling conditions. No 

 

Jadeja played a  lone hand that day.Jadeja will have again role to play in this world cup too.It is not his fault India is unable to produce allrounders.

 

 Bumrah might not be sole reason for Indian stinking in knock out matches but his ineffectiveness in pressure matches is a major reason for India not doing anything in knock out matches 2016. 

 

 

Dude, please stop with this ridiculous nonsense. 

 

Dropped catches are part of the game?  What stupidity is this? 

 

Jadeja was the worst player in the entire 2015 World Cup squad. Forget about just knockouts. 

 

He was the worst bowler , averaging 40 with the ball when everyone else was averaging 25 or less. 

 

Also, he came to bat at 7 and scored like 50 runs in 5 batting innings.

 

CT 2017

 

Jadeja was the 2nd worst bowler after Ashwin for India in the tournament , averaging 62 with the ball despite playing as a bowler at #8.

 

 

He only played 3 matches in the 2019  World Cup. That was a good knock but hardly indicative of anything permanent. 

 

 

Asia Cup 2023(against SL, BD, PAK)

 

Jadeja with bat at at #7

 

25 runs in 3 innings. Average of 8. Below Bumrah and slightly above Thakur and Shami at 7 and 6.

 

Jadeja with ball against same teams

 

Average of 37 with the ball when

 

Pandya, Thakur, Siraj, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Shami all averaged below 20 on spin friendly pitches !

 

 

Asia Cup 2014 (against BD, PAK, SL)

 

Was terrible with the ball, averaging 42 with the ball on spinning BD wickets where Ashwin, Mishra and Shami were running riot

 

Scored a good half century so was not the worst member of the squad.

 

Asia Cup 2018(against BD and Pakistan)

 

Scored 23 runs at 68 odd strike rate coming in at #7.  But couldn't finish the chase. Bhuvi scored 21 runs at same strike rate after that at #8 , exposing this guy. 

 

Ended with bowling figures worse than Kuldeep, Bumrah, Bhuvi and Kedar Jadhav  for the tournament . Only Chahal was worse.

 

 

 

This is the guy you think is alright because Bumrah apparently chokes in knockouts and because catches are part of the game.

 

One fluke 77 in a knockout does not erase a decade of mediocrity , being part of the ODI squad. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20 by Nikhil_cric