Why the great Shakib Al Hasan has never won Bangladesh an Asia Cup?

[vvvslaxman]

25 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Two finals. Don't forget WT20 2022. And he played clutch match winning knocks in both while chasing, both vs strong opponents.

BD choked in those finals. Shakib scored runs but impactless runs.

 

He was chasing a moderate total. He just had to play without losing his head.  Given their team make up i don't think Stokes is going to do zilch surrounded by bunch of no name players against sides like India. 

[Zero_Unit]

Cricket is a team game? It's rare that 1 person out of the 11 alone can win you the game single-handed every single time. Silly thread ...

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Zero_Unit said:

Cricket is a team game? It's rare that 1 person out of the 11 alone can win you the game single-handed every single time. Silly thread ...

14 hours ago, Majestic said:

Then why we say, "X player never won anything, Y player has won so many things". Why do most of us act like hypocrite and make baseless arguments?

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He took 2 for 38 in 10 overs and scored 68.   At that time Bangaldesh was a crap team.  Nobody supported him down the order.  One guy scored 16 in 52 balls. One guy  scored 28 in 63 balls. So you are expecting Shakib to protect his wicket and also maintain high strike rate? Back then Afridi, Ajmal, Gul were one of the finest bowling force. THe same year those trio won the world T20. Stokes has reached a grand total of one multination final. By the way there was one final Shakib did not even take part. 

The real question - how the eff do you remember all of this in such detail?  Bangladesh team performances from the days of Saeed Ajmal? Remarkable!

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

The real question - how the eff do you remember all of this in such detail?  Bangladesh team performances from the days of Saeed Ajmal? Remarkable!

  I don't lol I connect dots

[Majestic]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He was chasing a moderate total. He just had to play without losing his head.  Given their team make up i don't think Stokes is going to do zilch surrounded by bunch of no name players against sides like India. 

In 2019 WC Final and Headingley, he did the kind of things which only the truly best can do. If you want one guy to win from unrealistic situation on a big occasion, that's Stokes.

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

  I don't lol I connect dots

Am not sure what dots you have and how you connect them, but it is impressive.

[vvvslaxman]

31 minutes ago, Majestic said:

In 2019 WC Final and Headingley, he did the kind of things which only the truly best can do. If you want one guy to win from unrealistic situation on a big occasion, that's Stokes.

 

I see Sachin failing twice in final. Will that make him  poor. Atleast Shakib contributed in the final both with ball and bat. Just that he was not having a confident batting line up surrounding him

Edited September 15, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[Mariyam]

@Majestic

 

"Then why we say, "X player never won anything, Y player has won so many things". Why do most of us act like hypocrite and make baseless arguments?"

 

Coz most of us are hypocrites

[Strangering]

For same reason that Sachin didn't win a World Cup until 2011 despite being a top run getter multiple times in prior world cups. Its a team sport. 

[Zero_Unit]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

Then why we say, "X player never won anything, Y player has won so many things". Why do most of us act like hypocrite and make baseless arguments?

I think you're not understanding how a team sport works. Let's take Ben Stokes for an example. I think everyone here agrees that he is one of the best cricketer of this generation. When he retires, he will achieve alot. The way he plays can take the opposition out. However, let's say 10 players in the teams have skill level of Nepal players and he himself plays like an elite cricketer. How often do you think he will win games for England in such a case with both ball/bat? In his last match, he scored 180 odd and the team score was 360+. The reason that was possible is because team contributed as well and then you have premier bowlers also chipping in. So his contribution looks great when the team is great. Now take Shakib (or even someone like Rashid Khan) who plays for a relatively weak team where you always have the main 2-4 guys that needs to perform in order to win a game. Rest are there to fill the numbers ... it's rare to get a well enough contribution from the rest. That's why most of the time whenever you say a team like BD/Afg win, it's usually titles like Shakib/Rashid/etc takes BD/Afg to victory. You can be a great player for a shitty team, but that great player can't win trophies by themselves. 

Basically am trying to tell you is that this isn't tennis where you can play solo, lol. 

[Lord]

Shakib is terribly overrated. When was the last time he performed in must win games? Forget team wins, I don't think even personally he did well.

[Lord]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:44 PM, Majestic said:

In 2019 WC Final and Headingley, he did the kind of things which only the truly best can do. If you want one guy to win from unrealistic situation on a big occasion, that's Stokes.

 

Both games he had lot of luck. That changes narratives big time. Could have and should have lost both games.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

Shakib is terribly overrated. When was the last time he performed in must win games? Forget team wins, I don't think even personally he did well.

 

For them every game is must win game as they hardly win anything. Atleast in Tests he is their biggest match winner with a batting average of 46 and bowling average of 22.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Both games he had lot of luck. That changes narratives big time. Could have and should have lost both games.

 

Even in the test match he was lbw. But Australia did not have enough reviews. Otherwise he could not have pulled off that test win as well. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

For them every game is must win game as they hardly win anything. Atleast in Tests he is their biggest match winner with a batting average of 46 and bowling average of 22.

 

Eh? He averages 39 with bat and 31 with ball in Tests.

 

Every game is not a must win. Some games just can't afford to lose, like SL-BD game this Asia Cup. Chasing moderate target of 257, BD made 236. Shakib made 3.

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Eh? He averages 39 with bat and 31 with ball in Tests.

 

Every game is not a must win. Some games just can't afford to lose, like SL-BD game this Asia Cup. Chasing moderate target of 257, BD made 236. Shakib made 3.

 

I am talking about match winning stats in Tests.  That is the problem. Expecting him to win every match. Without Shakib BD would not have won even many Tests.  He really played well in the world cup 2019 scoring 600 plus runs.  They rely on him for 16 years. 

 

This was from 2008. He was only 21.  Did well with bat and ball after BD batting imploded.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/bangladesh-tour-of-pakistan-2007-08-343065/pakistan-vs-bangladesh-4th-odi-343762/full-scorecard

 

This was the pattern most of his career. He is 36. Even at this age he delivers both as a pure batsman and pure bowler. That is why he has been no.1 all rounder for a very very long time over 14 years with very rare slumps. He is not going to win matches on his own. Moment we dropped 3 or 4 guys we ended up losing to Bangladesh.

[vvvslaxman]

I would gladly swap even the old Shakib for our two so called "fake all rounders". I am sure most would do. 

[Lord]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

I am talking about match winning stats in Tests.  That is the problem. Expecting him to win every match. Without Shakib BD would not have won even many Tests.  He really played well in the world cup 2019 scoring 600 plus runs.  They rely on him for 16 years. 

 

This was from 2008. He was only 21.  Did well with bat and ball after BD batting imploded.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/bangladesh-tour-of-pakistan-2007-08-343065/pakistan-vs-bangladesh-4th-odi-343762/full-scorecard

 

This was the pattern most of his career. He is 36. Even at this age he delivers both as a pure batsman and pure bowler. That is why he has been no.1 all rounder for a very very long time over 14 years with very rare slumps. He is not going to win matches on his own. Moment we dropped 3 or 4 guys we ended up losing to Bangladesh.

 

That is some random bilateral. I'm talking about must win games in multi nation tourneys. What has he delivered in them?

 

I'm not even talking about winning matches, just his own performance. 

 

WC 2015 QF : 10(34)

2017 CT SF : 15(18)

Asia Cup T20 failed in final in 2016

WT20 too I don't remember any.

 

Perhaps only good knock is in Asia Cup Final back in 2012.

 

He looks good but others in his team are worse. But he hasn't stood up in important games. If he does and they still lose, thats a different thing.

[Number]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:44 PM, Majestic said:

In 2019 WC Final and Headingley, he did the kind of things which only the truly best can do. If you want one guy to win from unrealistic situation on a big occasion, that's Stokes.

Played the most important role in 2022 T20 WC final chase against Pakistan.

Was getting beaten all ends up from Naseem Shah's banana swings. But didn't lose his composure even once. Waited for his chance and then killed the game in one spinner's over. Underrated knock imho. Had he not stood there, Pakistan could have taken the game away.