Canada expels Indian diplomat; Indian government agents behind killing of Sikh leader - Trudeau

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, zen said:

I know where the temple is. I know the area as well.
 

As I said, these are unsophisticated brazen people who ideally should be deported back to India.
 

Let the police handle the issue. 

 

Why should unsophisticated Canadians be deported to India?

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

What are you talking about? There is hardly any Khalistani sentiment left in Punjab. It is primarily left only in few Sikh communities in Western countries, cheifly in Canada. 

 

If you claim to be a Hindu and still don't have the guts to call a spade a spade, then you along with those with similar mentalities are also part of the problem. 

It is impossible to ascertain on the internet, some canadian indian named say ejaz patel can claim he is a Hindu gujarati.

[Mariyam]

23 minutes ago, zen said:

again, I want GOI to introduce a formal process for the “people of Punjab” to speak what is on their mind!

 

Not you, not me! 

With all due respect to you,

The people of Punjab speak their mind every time there are state and national elections. No one has stopped the people of Punjab from speaking their mind.

The verdict from the various elections are a fair indication of what is on the mind of the common Punjabi folk.

 

Can't get a more formal process than that. 

[zen]

29 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

With all due respect to you,

The people of Punjab speak their mind every time there are state and national elections. No one has stopped the people of Punjab from speaking their mind.

The verdict from the various elections are a fair indication of what is on the mind of the common Punjabi folk.

 

Can't get a more formal process than that. 

Participating in elections (I understand it is one of those flawed Indian concept seen on Arnab’s show as well) is not the same as going through a formal process with in depth discussions.

Let the “people of Punjab” through a process speak their mind (the world is constantly moving forward. We are no longer in the 20th century). Whatever it maybe. A majority may not want a Khalistan  

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Why should unsophisticated Canadians be deported to India?

 

First, We don’t know their (rioters and protesters) nationality. Because they live in Canada, they are Canadians is among the flawed theories being advanced here. 

 

It is not easy to get Canadian citizenship where you have to live for a number of years. 
 

Also even a first gen Canadian can have its citizenship revoked and deported back to India. Usually, your citizenship is only safe in the country of your birth.

[diga]

54 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

It is impossible to ascertain on the internet, some canadian indian named say ejaz patel can claim he is a Hindu gujarati.

Very telling... will watch out

[Mariyam]

2 hours ago, zen said:

 

First, We don’t know their (rioters and protesters) nationality. Because they live in Canada, they are Canadians is among the flawed theories being advanced here. 

 

It is not easy to get Canadian citizenship where you have to live for a number of years. 
 

Also even a first gen Canadian can have its citizenship revoked and deported back to India. Usually, your citizenship is only safe in the country of your birth.

I like this playbook.

 

As long as people are abusing India/ Indian beliefs/ Politicians/the tricolor/ threatening Indian diplomats , they are benign Canadian citizens practicing their freedom of expression.

The moment they attack a place of worship, they become unsophisticated Indians and must be deported to India.

 

 

Gotcha

Edited November 4, 2024 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

2 hours ago, zen said:

Participating in elections (I understand it is one of those flawed Indian concept seen on Arnab’s show as well) is not the same as going through a formal process with in depth discussions.

Let the “people of Punjab” through a process speak their mind (the world is constantly moving forward. We are no longer in the 20th century). Whatever it maybe. A majority may not want a Khalistan  

 

This is a great idea.

 

I am sure that the beacon of the liberal world, interpreter of all third world maladies aka Canada can show the way to India by first organizing a process to 'speak their mind' on weather or not it is necessary to jeopardize relations with an 'ally' accusing their high commissioner without providing a shred of evidence. Let the people of Canada speak up. Whatever it maybe. The majority may agree with Trudeau

 

Also, whether or not India conducts such a 'talk', this is a serious law and order breach in Canada. As a Canadian, you should be far more worried about the deteriorating law and order situation in Canada. The solution to it lies locally, and not in what Bhupinder from Bhatinda thinks!

Edited November 4, 2024 by Mariyam

[zen]

35 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I like this playbook.

 

As long as people are abusing India/ Indian beliefs/ Politicians/the tricolor/ threatening Indian diplomats , they are benign Canadian citizens practicing their freedom of expression.

The moment they attack a place of worship, they become unsophisticated Indians and must be deported to India.

 

 

Gotcha

 

They are not necessarily Canadians. 

 

Unlike people in India, I am used to interacting with not only people from various states but also countries. In Canada, it is not like if whoever I meet is a Canadian even though the person could have residence in Canada. Many are even dual citizens. 

 

During Diwali, if there is too much traffic at a Hindu temple, I drive to a Gurudwara to burst some low intensity crackers. I am in contact with most types of people.  

 

 

[zen]

50 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

This is a great idea.

 

I am sure that the beacon of the liberal world, interpreter of all third world maladies aka Canada can show the way to India by first organizing a process to 'speak their mind' on weather or not it is necessary to jeopardize relations with an 'ally' accusing their high commissioner without providing a shred of evidence. Let the people of Canada speak up. Whatever it maybe. The majority may agree with Trudeau

 

Also, whether or not India conducts such a 'talk', this is a serious law and order breach in Canada. As a Canadian, you should be far more worried about the deteriorating law and order situation in Canada. The solution to it lies locally, and not in what Bhupinder from Bhatinda thinks!

 

I agree that Canada has not handled the “high commissioner” issue as well as it could have esp. since the video/audio recordings of the consulate may not be permissible in the court of law.

 

I also think that India carried out a pointless operation in Canada, risking its image. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

28 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

What? People of Punjab to speak? To do that is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

 

There is simply no process of secession in the Indian constitution.

 

At the end of the day, nations are for people and not the other way around (as has been preached by those who want people to serve those in power). 

 

Based on people’s will, we have seen USSR fail with its Russification, where now former states have begun to reconnect with their own culture, initiating derussification or desovietization or whatever it is called. 

 

Based on people’s will, we have seen the Berlin Wall fall as well and Germany becoming reunited.  

 

During the USSR period, a Comrade was a property of the state (now people would probably laugh at that). We know about the Nazi National Socialism which was embraced blindly by many for Germany. 

 

The world map changes every 70-80 years. I see the current India as a country in transition. British India (like 200 years) -> Current India (maybe 150-200 years) -> New India (probably like what it could have been if there were no British) -> ?

 

Nothing is permanent. 

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

38 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

Khalistan is an 2nd or 3rd generation Punjabi problem in US, UK, Canada, Australia. They have an identity crisis living in an white majority country which is normal for all POC at some point of time and are fully into the Khalistani cause.

 

Let’s see a validation of that through a formal process (which should be allowed imo). 

 

On one hand, we cannot be like “What? People of Punjab to speak?”. And on the other hand, provide our unilateral interpretation of the problem. 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

It doesn't work like that.

 

When Indian government even entertains secession like you say, it means that they have already lost the geopolitical game and their intelligence bureau has lost the plot.

 

This will be considered failure from the eyes of all foreign nations as well.

 

All this freedom talk is good for the books. It doesn't work like that. 

 

It is not about India, it is about its people. 

 

It is not about what a government thinks now, but what the power of people can eventually bring. 

 

GOI is not there to replace the British. 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

Nope. You can have khalistan referendum in Canada, US, UK, Australia because it is held in their country by their citizens.

 

Not in India. If indian govt conducts referendum, it means they have failed to uphold the constitution.

 

That is again not understanding the Khalistani problem which is tied to Punjab, the cultural identity. 
 

By suggesting that GOI cannot do that it only raises questions on what the people of Punjab really want (I do think that a majority at this point would want to remain in India but if such policies continue, who knows about tomorrow).

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

Let's say, my parents migrated from Tamilnadu to Canada in 1980s.

 

I am 2nd gen Canadian of Indian origin. I have no ties to India apart from my parents.

 

My opinions matter zilch on Indian state secession. That's why I am a Canadian citizen in the first place.

 

But we are talking about the people of Punjab. 

[zen]

40 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

Replace "Tamilnadu" with "Punjab" or any state and the point still stands.

 

You are only related to Punjab or India based on your parents or grandparents.

When it comes to a formal process advanced by GOI, we are talking about the people of Punjab in the state of Punjab and NRIs. Obviously, GOI is not going to design a formal process for foreign citizens.

 

 

PS at times, even the foreign citizen moniker can be tricky. As say someone feels forced out of his region, goes elsewhere, and adopts that nation not by choice. We have seen that with people of AFG moving away from Taliban, people from the Soviet Bloc, Iranians, etc. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

Speaking of referendum, the two that I recall did not go for independence.

 

Quebec: Approx. 51% voted to stay in Canada. Though this was not a legal referendum as it was done unilaterally. 
 

Scotland: Approx. 55% voted to stay in the UK. Main reason to stay was Pound Sterling. 
 

 

For countries that want to use referendum (the future gens would likely be more open to such concepts), below could be a template to begin: 

 

* Allow for internal in-depth discussions so decisions are taken based on looking at various factors.
* Present a plan (economic, defence, geopolitical, etc) to see how the state works with the rest of the country. In what phases it gets what type of autonomy. And provision to revert back. 

* Ask the separatist group to first seek a 2/3rd majority. To change a major status, one cannot do that based on a slim majority. The large % people should be able to support that, ensuring that the people feel that there is a genuine case. 
* Begin negotiations and approval process.
 

This also helps to turn the issue into a separatists v non-separatists one versus a state v country one. 
 

I might give it some more thought 

 

PS this is an intellectual, sophisticated and consensus building (for either case) way to solve the issue versus protests, riots, guns, terrorism, assassinations, geo-politics, diplomatic scandals, outrage, etc. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by zen

[Chaos]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Speaking of referendum, the two that I recall did not go for independence.

 

Quebec: Approx. 51% voted to stay in Canada. Though this was not a legal referendum as it was done unilaterally. 
 

Scotland: Approx. 55% voted to stay in the UK. Main reason to stay was Pound Sterling. 
 

 

For countries that want to use referendum (the future gens would likely be more open to such concepts), below could be a template to begin: 

 

* Allow for internal in-depth discussions so decisions are taken based on looking at various factors.
* Present a plan (economic, defence, geopolitical, etc) to see how the state works with the rest of the country. In what phases it gets what type of autonomy. And provision to revert back. 

* Ask the separatist group to first seek a 2/3rd majority. To change a major status, one cannot do that based on a slim majority. The large % people should be able to support that, ensuring that the people feel that there is a genuine case. 
* Begin negotiations and approval process.
 

This also helps to turn the issue into a separatists v non-separatists one versus a state v country one. 
 

I might give it some more thought 

 

So another book coming up? 

[ravishingravi]

Showing hindus their place. 

 

 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Showing hindus their place. 

 

 

Dang…feel bad for the kid, 3 cops basically abusing the boy. What did the boy do?