Is the Indian team of 2023 World Cup their best bowling attack ever?

[Majestic]

Going into World Cup 2023, India does seem to have one of the top bowling attacks and arguably the best as well taking all factors into consideration.

 

The below 4 names are at their peak :-

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Kuldeep

Pandya

 

Then you have Jadeja who is bowling in favourable conditions where he is certainly more lethal than he actually is rated overall. The only question can be no.8 but you have multiple options to pick between Axar, Shardul, Sundar and Ashwin and they all have their share of plus and minuses and can be used based on conditions.

[Nikhil_cric]

31 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Going into World Cup 2023, India does seem to have one of the top bowling attacks and arguably the best as well taking all factors into consideration.

 

The below 4 names are at their peak :-

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Kuldeep

Pandya

 

Then you have Jadeja who is bowling in favourable conditions where he is certainly more lethal than he actually is rated overall. The only question can be no.8 but you have multiple options to pick between Axar, Shardul, Sundar and Ashwin and they all have their share of plus and minuses and can be used based on conditions.

We played Bumrah, Shami, Pandya, Kuldeep, Chahal in the previous World Cup.  Chahal, especially back then, had more upside than Jadeja in bowling.

[sensible-indian]

Its not about the names.

 

Its about the form.

 

In the past, teams used to play a lot of ODIs so it was easier for bowlers to maintain their form and rhythm.

 

Modern cricket has changed everything.

 

Constantly shuffling across formats, dealing with injuries has taken its toll.

 

I can totally see Bumrah, Siraj and Kuldeep destroying teams...and I can totally see them conceding too many runs in a crucial game too.

 

Siraj and Kuldeep have high ceiling but when they go wrong, they can really go wrong.

 

Variety and depth wise, I do think Indian bowling is the best.

 

We do need a good defensive bowler and whoever among Jaddu, Washi and Ash is bowling well needs to be picked.

 

Axar if he is fit and bowls tight leapfrogs ahead of them.

 

The key is form.

 

Names are irrelevant.

[Sooda]

The three main bowlers are good but Pandya is not a front line bowler.

 

The attack in 2003 for that era and conditions was very good- Zak, Nehra, Srinath, Bhajji

[Norman]

Still think it's the 2019 one..

 

 

Bumrah was at his peak , no fitness issues, Bhuvi was a good foil to him too alongside Shami and Pandya wh used to give crucial breakthroughs in the middle overs. It just seemed like no team will cross anything over 280 until the game against England...

[Nikhil_cric]

25 minutes ago, Norman said:

Still think it's the 2019 one..

 

 

Bumrah was at his peak , no fitness issues, Bhuvi was a good foil to him too alongside Shami and Pandya wh used to give crucial breakthroughs in the middle overs. It just seemed like no team will cross anything over 280 until the game against England...

They wouldn't have had we played the extra pacer. Or had reviewed Roy's caught behind off Pandya.  England feasted on the 2 wrist spinners.

[singhvivek141]

I really liked 2003 & 2015 one.

2011 one was good and it had variety..but all were medium pacers (except Nehra & Sreesanth).

2015 me Shami, Umesh were consistently hitting 145+ while Mohit was touching 140's. 

2003 all 3 of Srinath, Zak & Nehra were 140+

In both iterations, we were unstoppable till we met Australia 

[Nikhil_cric]

https://www.cricket.com/news/asia-cup-2023-team-india-takeaways-9172023-1694959008263

 

Look at Pandya's consistent good/hard lengths in this Asia Cup and tight lines.   Very little is pitched up or pitched too short.  Like I said in the SL match thread - he's our most accurate and best defensive bowler.  

 

3 spinners are NOT gonna win you anything anywhere - whether it's Asia or even a lunar crater. Indian TM's and fans' obsession with specialist spin has to stop.  It DOES NOT work in ODI cricket.

 

It's just a scam pulled off by our batsmen who refuse to bowl even a few overs of part-time spin. 1 spinner and 1 spin-allrounder is the max you need in ANY squad in ANY conditions. The rest have to be batters who bowl spin. 

 

Only minnows - BD/SL types select so many spin all-rounders.    

 

Tilak Varma's part-time bowling was no worse than Axar's bowling. 

 

On the other hand, even on SL pitches, pacers have comprehensively outbowled spinners.

 

Against BD, PAK, and SL,

 

Kuldeep is the only bowler who could match seamers in wicket-taking ability.

 

Axar and Jadeja together averaged 47 with the ball with a strike rate of 58. That is pathetic!

 

And these are SL pitches, not flat Indian wickets!

 

We need another fast bowler to hit those Pandya type lengths in the middle overs and dropping one of these spin "all-rounders"  allows us to do that. Also, they have to be rotated to maintain speeds and fitness!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Number]

In 2019 Shami+Bumrah+Bhuvi played only 1 game together. 

Shami played 4 matches when Bhuvi wasn't there and took 2 4fers and 1 5fer IIRC.

Then they benched him back when Bhuvi was fit for his mythical batting abilities.

Siraj is 10x the bowler Koomar could ever think of being.

I rate this attack better than 2019. But 2019 was better than any attack we had previously, it just wasn't utilised properly.

[Gollum]

2019 had Boobi bhaiyya and Chahal, both went on to play the SF ahead of Shami/Kuldeep no way is that the best. 

[Number]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

I really liked 2003 & 2015 one.

2011 one was good and it had variety..but all were medium pacers (except Nehra & Sreesanth).

2015 me Shami, Umesh were consistently hitting 145+ while Mohit was touching 140's. 

2003 all 3 of Srinath, Zak & Nehra were 140+

In both iterations, we were unstoppable till we met Australia 

2015 we played UAE, Ireland, Zimbabwe, West Indies, Bangladesh and a very weak Pakistan.

They only bowled well against SA.

Tough to rate that attack.

On those wickets, Ashwin and Jadeja were never going to buy wickets against semi decent teams.

[deathmonger]

2019 was good but this is a bit better I think.

 

Bumrah is the same.

Siraj is better than Bhuvi.

Kuldeep is better.

Pandya is better.

Jadeja is worse than Chahal but better batsman.

Sundar/Axar/Shardul is better than Kedar Jadhav.

[mani sha]

2 hours ago, Sooda said:

The three main bowlers are good but Pandya is not a front line bowler.

 

The attack in 2003 for that era and conditions was very good- Zak, Nehra, Srinath, Bhajji

Kumble and agarkar too 

 

Zak nehra srinath agarkar Bhajji kumble part time of yuvi , sachin and sehwag . in 2003 

 

zak , ashish  , bhaji , yuvi , munaf , Sreesanth , praveen kumar  , y pathan , Piyush chawla , Raina - sachin parttime . 
 

both 2003 and 2011 squads had v good variety and suited for conditions . We lost 2003 cos zaheer lost his brains in first 5 overs . 

[Gollum]

Jadeja is far better than any version of Chahal, we saw who was who in the 2019 SF. 

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, Sooda said:

The three main bowlers are good but Pandya is not a front line bowler.

 

The attack in 2003 for that era and conditions was very good- Zak, Nehra, Srinath, Bhajji

 

5 minutes ago, mani sha said:

Kumble and agarkar too 

 

Zak nehra srinath agarkar Bhajji kumble part time of yuvi , sachin and sehwag . in 2003 

 

zak , ashish  , bhaji , yuvi , munaf , Sreesanth , praveen kumar  , y pathan , Piyush chawla , Raina - sachin parttime . 
 

both 2003 and 2011 squads had v good variety and suited for conditions . We lost 2003 cos zaheer lost his brains in first 5 overs . 

Zak back then wasn't that good, he improved his skills by 2006-07 and post that he became a proper strike bowler.

 

Srinath in 2003 was pretty much done. Ashish was good in patches but used to leak a lot of runs.

[Mariyam]

2 weeks ago I thought we didn’t have for enough bowlers to bowl 50 overs.

 

Now I feel our bowling is our USP.

 

basically I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. 
 

Shall opine after due consideration, hence forth.

[vvvslaxman]

Stop it !! Lol. Let us not jinx it :)

[sensible-indian]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

https://www.cricket.com/news/asia-cup-2023-team-india-takeaways-9172023-1694959008263

 

Look at Pandya's consistent good/hard lengths in this Asia Cup and tight lines.   Very little is pitched up or pitched too short.  Like I said in the SL match thread - he's our most accurate and best defensive bowler.  

 

3 spinners are NOT gonna win you anything anywhere - whether it's Asia or even a lunar crater. Indian TM's and fans' obsession with specialist spin has to stop.  It DOES NOT work in ODI cricket.

 

It's just a scam pulled off by our batsmen who refuse to bowl even a few overs of part-time spin. 1 spinner and 1 spin-allrounder is the max you need in ANY squad in ANY conditions. The rest have to be batters who bowl spin. 

 

Only minnows - BD/SL types select so many spin all-rounders.    

 

Tilak Varma's part-time bowling was no worse than Axar's bowling. 

 

On the other hand, even on SL pitches, pacers have comprehensively outbowled spinners.

 

Against BD, PAK, and SL,

 

Kuldeep is the only bowler who could match seamers in wicket-taking ability.

 

Axar and Jadeja together averaged 47 with the ball with a strike rate of 58. That is pathetic!

 

And these are SL pitches, not flat Indian wickets!

 

We need another fast bowler to hit those Pandya type lengths in the middle overs and dropping one of these spin "all-rounders"  allows us to do that. Also, they have to be rotated to maintain speeds and fitness!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting take.

 

I dont think anyone is suggesting 3 spinners.

 

If pitches favour spinners a bit, you want to have 2 solid options in the middle overs to contain the Aus and English batsmen.

 

Really depends on the pitch and how well the spinners are bowling.

 

Not sure if 4+1 is a good strategy.

 

Even WC 2011 Yuvi played a big role with the ball as the 5th bowler.

[mani sha]

22 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Very interesting take.

 

I dont think anyone is suggesting 3 spinners.

 

If pitches favour spinners a bit, you want to have 2 solid options in the middle overs to contain the Aus and English batsmen.

 

Really depends on the pitch and how well the spinners are bowling.

 

Not sure if 4+1 is a good strategy.

 

Even WC 2011 Yuvi played a big role with the ball as the 5th bowler.

A spinner brings different variety into play 

 

- pitch 

- flight 

- temptation to hit out if ground 

 

In modern odi cricket , fast wrist spinners get max success due to loop and bounce . 
mystery spinners like therksana give you a decent option if they are accurate . Can hold runs 

part time spinners needed if pitches turn . Windies , Certain indian pitches like chennai , mumbai - u can get some help 

 

finally , hit deck part bowlers like pandya are far and few . And do they bat - not many . In top 6 - stokes , pandya , aussie bowlers 

 

you are right about quality fast bowlers being better than part timers . But wrist spinners who can bat are like good , mystery spinners who can bat are like silver and finger spinners who can bat are serviceable . 
 

the captain needs all these options . Then based on pitch , opposition can pick sides . 
 

rohit has some good ideas . Let’s see how tactically he prepares each side this world cup 

[Nikhil_cric]

32 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Very interesting take.

 

I dont think anyone is suggesting 3 spinners.

 

If pitches favour spinners a bit, you want to have 2 solid options in the middle overs to contain the Aus and English batsmen.

 

Really depends on the pitch and how well the spinners are bowling.

 

Not sure if 4+1 is a good strategy.

 

Even WC 2011 Yuvi played a big role with the ball as the 5th bowler.

There are 3 spinners in the squad. No other Top 6 side has 3 spinners who are primarily spinners. 

 

They have 1 wrist spinner and then 1 spin allrounder who can hit.

 

The remaining spin they get from part time spinners who are primarily batsmen. 

 

It's no accident that England have brought 6 seam options. 

 

Despite the fact that the World Cup is in India, none of these teams have picked the 3rd spinner in the squad. 

 

And India have played the Axar, Jadeja, Kuldeep combo both in Australia series and in Asia Cup.