BigFish11 Posted October 19, 2023 Posted October 19, 2023 44 minutes ago, mishra said: I am not sure you are indian or not but i can tell you my experience. I distinctly recall old tv news when my dad used to watch and curse Israel as tv showed Palestinian protestors clasing Israeli forces using tear gas and batons. I think one day he was very happy to hear some news on Arafaat. May be it was him getting released from Israeli prison. So that was view of Indians till late 80ss early 90s about Israel Palestine. But then we had first hand experience of Pakistani sponsored terrorism in Kashmir and it made people empathetic and then sympathetic to Israel and Jews. We now know what terrorist are capable of and have no sympathy with terrorists or their cause. I get where you're coming from, and frankly, the events that took place on October 7 did evoke painful memories of the Mumbai attacks. But I think we need to critically think and differentiate between Pakistan and the Israel-Palestine situation. Unlike Pakistanis, Palestinians have been actually oppressed for the past 20 years, living in an open jail. Considering that we've always had a neutral stance (slightly pro=palestine) on this conflict, this newfound sympathy does strike me as odd. Openly supporting the killing of children and putting up fake anti-Palestine tweets is a bit disgusting tbh. BacktoCricaddict 1
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 14 hours ago, BigFish11 said: I get where you're coming from, and frankly, the events that took place on October 7 did evoke painful memories of the Mumbai attacks. But I think we need to critically think and differentiate between Pakistan and the Israel-Palestine situation. Unlike Pakistanis, Palestinians have been actually oppressed for the past 20 years, living in an open jail. Considering that we've always had a neutral stance (slightly pro=palestine) on this conflict, this newfound sympathy does strike me as odd. Openly supporting the killing of children and putting up fake anti-Palestine tweets is a bit disgusting tbh. There is room for further nuance, as well. One can fully sympathize with and support the Palestinian cause while simultaneously condemning the means that Hamas used to supposedly fight for that cause. Similarly, one can fully sympathize with the victims of the dastardly Hamas attack while simultaneously condemning Israeli occupation, settlements and subjugation of Palestinian civilians over the decades. Unfortunately, it doesn't make for good soundbytes. mishra and Vijy 2
gattaca Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) There is a reason why successful Islamist countries don’t take refugees from Syria, Pakistan, Palestine etc. below is a video where few Islamist national leader explain why. Europe doesn’t understand that except Poland. https://youtu.be/EnE6yGgiE1A?si=WCqN1D85pqA2pCy1 Edited October 20, 2023 by gattaca
coffee_rules Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 Even in this saga, Egypt and Jordon has the closed the borders for Gazans and WB Palestinians. BacktoCricaddict 1
mishra Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, gattaca said: There is a reason why successful Islamist countries don’t take refugees from Syria, Pakistan, Palestine etc. below is a video where few Islamist national leader explain why. Europe doesn’t understand that except Poland. https://youtu.be/EnE6yGgiE1A?si=WCqN1D85pqA2pCy1 Long back, Jordan took Palestinian refugees. Same Palestenian refugees tried to overthrow Kind of Jordan. Pakistans Army was hired by King of Jordan and Pakistani army General Zia Ul Haq was instrumental in Repelling the Palestaenian refugees. Quote Role of Zia-ul-Haq and Iranian leftist guerillas The head of a Pakistani training mission to Jordan, Brigadier Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq (later Chief of Army Staff and President of Pakistan), was involved on the Jordanian side.[71] Zia had been stationed in Amman for three years prior to Black September. During the events, according to CIA official Jack O'Connell, Zia was dispatched by Hussein north to assess Syria's military capabilities. The Pakistani commander reported back to Hussein, recommending the deployment of a RJAF squadron to the region.[i] O'Connell also said that Zia personally led Jordanian troops during the battles.[73] Two Iranian leftist guerilla organizations, the Organization of Iranian People's Fedai Guerrillas (OIPFG) and the People's Mujahedin of Iran (PMOI), were involved in the conflict against Jordan.[74] Their "collaboration with the PLO was particularly close, and members of both movements even fought side by side in Jordan during the events of Black September and trained together in Fatah camps in Lebanon".[74] On 3 August 1972, PMOI operatives bombed the Jordanian embassy in Tehran during King Hussein's state visit as an act of "revenge" for the events of Black September gattaca and coffee_rules 1 1
gattaca Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, mishra said: Long back, Jordan took Palestinian refugees. Same Palestenian refugees tried to overthrow Kind of Jordan. Pakistans Army was hired by King of Jordan and Pakistani army General Zia Ul Haq was instrumental in Repelling the Palestaenian refugees. Yes I was aware of this. They also started gangs in Jordan and started blockades in Jordan. Edited October 20, 2023 by gattaca
bharathh Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Even in this saga, Egypt and Jordon has the closed the borders for Gazans and WB Palestinians. They don't want the Palestinians t take over the Sinai. They already have separatist issues there.
mishra Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, gattaca said: Yes I was aware of this. They also started gangs in Jordan and started blockades in Jordan. From wiki. Thats how they treat the hand that feeds them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September Quote Hussein's motorcade came under fire on 1 September for the second time in three months, triggering clashes between the army and the fedayeen
coffee_rules Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Wrong thread Edited October 20, 2023 by coffee_rules
wanted_desi Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 All the muslim nations should take them in. There are what 2 million Gaza folks who are living in prison. This is how you support them.
randomGuy Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Even in this saga, Egypt and Jordon has the closed the borders for Gazans and WB Palestinians. They know these people are trouble. Singapore is 730 sq km, 55 lac population. Gaza strip 360 sq km, 23 lac population. Gaza strip has arguably more important location than Singapore. Gaza people keep crying about so called injustice, open prison, support Hamas etc., they always have a Singapore or a hongkong to take inspiration from. Edited October 21, 2023 by randomGuy ravishingravi 1
ravishingravi Posted October 21, 2023 Author Posted October 21, 2023 Intellectual dissection of an issue. This is what it looks like.
ravishingravi Posted October 21, 2023 Author Posted October 21, 2023 At 1:29 Eric mentions that Indian Americans could be the next Jews. And I have to agree. A minority population that ethnically looks different but is disproportionately successful. Could become a target. coffee_rules 1
bones Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/20/2023 at 5:14 PM, wanted_desi said: All the muslim nations should take them in. There are what 2 million Gaza folks who are living in prison. This is how you support them. Seen this comment going around a lot and the level of stupidity in it is off the charts. So instead of finding a diplomatic solution between both sides with guarantors from the west and arab world they should be moved from their homes? As I said stupidity off the charts. All this mess started a long time ago but more recently with the balfour treaty. Until that is addressed this will never end.
mishra Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 4 hours ago, bones said: Seen this comment going around a lot and the level of stupidity in it is off the charts. So instead of finding a diplomatic solution between both sides with guarantors from the west and arab world they should be moved from their homes? As I said stupidity off the charts. All this mess started a long time ago but more recently with the balfour treaty. Until that is addressed this will never end. First be clear. Is Gaza a "Home" or a "Prison" ? wanted_desi 1
wanted_desi Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 4 hours ago, bones said: Seen this comment going around a lot and the level of stupidity in it is off the charts. So instead of finding a diplomatic solution between both sides with guarantors from the west and arab world they should be moved from their homes? As I said stupidity off the charts. All this mess started a long time ago but more recently with the balfour treaty. Until that is addressed this will never end. Diplomatic solutions can't be found in middle of war . I doubt that it will ever be found in this case. At his point of time, the focus should be to save as many lives possible to get out of the zone. All the neighbours countries should open the borders for their brothers and sisters.
bones Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, wanted_desi said: All the neighbours countries should open the borders for their brothers and sisters. Why would they do that? The last time these neighbours let Palestinians in, the Israelis didn't let them back in. But it's besides the point, collective punish is a war crime. Unless you're justifying a war crime?
wanted_desi Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, bones said: Why would they do that? The last time these neighbours let Palestinians in, the Israelis didn't let them back in. But it's besides the point, collective punish is a war crime. Unless you're justifying a war crime? Why not? Safety comes first before anything for normal people. People always move away from war zones through out the history. Syrians did, recently lots of Ukrainians moved to Europe. Again why people assume that if you are suggesting something means you are supporting one side over other. It is not that White and Black issue.
bones Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, wanted_desi said: Why not? Safety comes first before anything for normal people. People always move away from war zones through out the history. Syrians did, recently lots of Ukrainians moved to Europe. Again why people assume that if you are suggesting something means you are supporting one side over other. It is not that White and Black issue. The difference between the Ukranians and Syrians is there won't be stopped from going back to their homes. Israel has no intention of letting the Palestinians back. - they have history of this and the Egyptians know this all too well. I agree it's not black and white - but one thing is indisputable. The Israelis are occupying Palestinian territory illegally. bsriharsha 1
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