bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 Just now, bharathh said: Behind a paywall. Can't read it. So who are the rational voices of Palestine outside of Palestine calling for the self-betterment of people? Check the times of Israel link I've posted below this.
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, bsriharsha said: Check the times of Israel link I've posted below this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, bharathh said: Behind a paywall. Can't read it. So who are the rational voices of Palestine outside of Palestine calling for the self-betterment of people? Think of it as this way , to kill the two state theory , Bibi and his govt allowed Hamas to build power in Gaza and the same dog has now turned on them. Do you see any parallels to this and what Pakistan does in encouraging Terrorists in their land ? Still think Israel's policies aren't to be blamed ? I mean the govt, not the people. BacktoCricaddict 1
bharathh Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 17 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: Think of it as this way , to kill the two state theory , Bibi and his govt allowed Hamas to build power in Gaza and the same dog has now turned on them. Do you see any parallels to this and what Pakistan does in encouraging Terrorists in their land ? Still think Israel's policies aren't to be blamed ? I mean the govt, not the people. Enemy's enemy is my friend? Yes never heard of that before. So what were the 5M+ average Palestinians doing in the meantime?
bharathh Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 27 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: Think of it as this way , to kill the two state theory , Bibi and his govt allowed Hamas to build power in Gaza and the same dog has now turned on them. Do you see any parallels to this and what Pakistan does in encouraging Terrorists in their land ? Still think Israel's policies aren't to be blamed ? I mean the govt, not the people. According to the article you posted, they helped by giving the ppl of Gaza more jobs and allowing more aid money into Gaza... and this shows that they have transformed Gaza into an open-air prison. What kind of circuitous logic is that? They helped the people live better lives and they deserve to be attacked by Islamic savages. Very compelling argument.
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, bharathh said: Enemy's enemy is my friend? Yes never heard of that before. So what were the 5M+ average Palestinians doing in the meantime? They are too busy scurrying for cover while the Israelis and Hamas exchange missiles at each other. Seriously, the average Palestinian isn't in a democracy where they have rights. They don't have any rights. The will to revolt has been totally stamped down on by both the Israeli actions as well as the actions of their leaders. Even if they did revolt , Hamas would kill them at the earliest claiming they are Israeli spies.
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, bharathh said: According to the article you posted, they helped by giving the ppl of Gaza more jobs and allowing more aid money into Gaza... and this shows that they have transformed Gaza into an open-air prison. What kind of circuitous logic is that? They helped the people live better lives and they deserve to be attacked by Islamic savages. Very compelling argument. The reason they've given Hamas the aid is because they wanted to kill the 2 nation theory idea. Allowing Hamas to be in control of Gaza , Allowing money to be sent to Gaza from Qatar. This allowed Hamas to build their arsenal. Israel allowed them to do that. And then the dog bit them back. They were even willing to overlook the odd missiles being launched at them because their Iron Dome would protect them. And they didn't grant work permits for the Gaza citizens to do high paying jobs , the permits were granted because Israel required cheap labour.
bharathh Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: They are too busy scurrying for cover while the Israelis and Hamas exchange missiles at each other. Seriously, the average Palestinian isn't in a democracy where they have rights. They don't have any rights. The will to revolt has been totally stamped down on by both the Israeli actions as well as the actions of their leaders. Even if they did revolt , Hamas would kill them at the earliest claiming they are Israeli spies. Maybe best that the evil Hamas are put away then right? Surely the Israelis are doing them good by removing the Hamas from positions of power so the hapless lambs can live a better future?
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, bharathh said: Maybe best that the evil Hamas are put away then right? Surely the Israelis are doing them good by removing the Hamas from positions of power so the hapless lambs can live a better future? Hamas , which Israel has cultivated/tolerated etc , needs to be put down. But would Israel solve this by bombing Gaza to the ground , causing loads of civilian casualties? That would only lead to a newer version of Hamas coming in to replace the old as the hatred of Israel would only increase among the populace increasing the radicalization. This is not a fight Israel can realistically win by violence. As the cycle will inevitably repeat itself. Israel should defend themselves but bombing the lives of 2m Palestinians to kill Hamas terrorists is overkill. 100k Palestinians might well die in this process and would that be acceptable ?
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 Think of the US actions in Afghanistan US succeeded in driving Taliban out of power , did they wipe Taliban out completely? The minute they left, Taliban were back in power. And this is what Biden (senile fool that he maybe is) refers to when he says to Israel to not make the same mistakes the US have done.
bsriharsha Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/world/israel-hamas-war-india-sends-medical-supplies-disaster-relief-aid-to-war-torn-gaza-via-egypt-8995292/lite/ And look up India's policy w.r.t Palestine and the 2 nation theory. Despite increasing closeness with Israel , India's still sticking to the old foreign policy. It's not about which party's in power, it's not about votebank politics or communal tension etc. It's because it's the right thing to do. BacktoCricaddict 1
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: That would only lead to a newer version of Hamas coming in to replace the old as the hatred of Israel would only increase among the populace increasing the radicalization. All of these conflicts remind me of the legend of Raktabeeja in Indian mythology.
ravishingravi Posted October 24, 2023 Author Posted October 24, 2023 Hmm https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1716874448694096095?t=CkVghCSR8dgNQKKBgPeMTQ&s=19
bones Posted October 24, 2023 Posted October 24, 2023 4 hours ago, mishra said: Most poster on icf have no sympathy with Terrorists , their sympathisers or terrorist ideology. Terrorism needs to be eradicated. You can reuse Your arguement that we agree to disagree But the vast majority of Palestinians like the vast majority of people around the world are normal civilians. Are the doctors and patients at hospitals in Gaza terrorists? There is a reason why the Geneva convention was held, but you and others here have shown your true colours, you are happy with children and civilians being killed and punished in mass for the crimes of others. This is a war crime and you have basically said you're OK with it. bsriharsha 1
bharathh Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 8 hours ago, bsriharsha said: Hamas , which Israel has cultivated/tolerated etc , needs to be put down. But would Israel solve this by bombing Gaza to the ground , causing loads of civilian casualties? That would only lead to a newer version of Hamas coming in to replace the old as the hatred of Israel would only increase among the populace increasing the radicalization. This is not a fight Israel can realistically win by violence. As the cycle will inevitably repeat itself. Israel should defend themselves but bombing the lives of 2m Palestinians to kill Hamas terrorists is overkill. 100k Palestinians might well die in this process and would that be acceptable ? So how should Hamas be dismantled according to you? Glad you agree that they should be
bharathh Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, ravishingravi said: Hmm https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1716874448694096095?t=CkVghCSR8dgNQKKBgPeMTQ&s=19 Palestinians are innocent ppl. Don't you know? They don't harbour irrational hatred towards anyone. Those normal Palestinian parents are so proud of their son killing people. They deserve to be treated with the same mercy their son showed ppl. Edited October 25, 2023 by bharathh
bsriharsha Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, bharathh said: So how should Hamas be dismantled according to you? Glad you agree that they should be Definitely not by https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2020-02-24/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000&ved=2ahUKEwiR28yWj5CCAxX8xTgGHZLOCwMQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3TDcj6Pg-AZJRmEDpPLsop
bharathh Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 50 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: Definitely not by https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2020-02-24/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000&ved=2ahUKEwiR28yWj5CCAxX8xTgGHZLOCwMQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3TDcj6Pg-AZJRmEDpPLsop Ok.. so what is the solution according to you and other bleeding hearts?
bsriharsha Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 2 hours ago, bharathh said: Ok.. so what is the solution according to you and other bleeding hearts? Something which doesn't constitute war crimes and isn't an attempt at genocide perhaps. Countries are expected to hold to standards w.r.t human rights etc than what terrorists and their actions do. Israel bombing 2m people in Gaza constitutes exactly that. What Israel should do ? 1. Stop the source of funding for Hamas in Qatar even if it's one that the Israeli govt actively encouraged in the recent past. 2. Undertake small precision strikes against Hamas without keeping the civilians at risk. You can't be killing children and then claim they are unfortunate casualties . 3. Work towards a solution (either a 2 state or a single state) for this because whatever Israel's tried in the past isn't solving the problem. Indian posters need not show their Islamophobic behaviour and celebrate the behaviour of Israelis towards Palestinians. That's reprehensible and deserves to get called out for what it exactly is. As I said , people can be supportive of Israel's right to exist / self defense and also criticise their policies towards Palestinians. The same way , people can criticize the actions of Hamas and other Palestinian leadership while still be supportive of the Palestinian right to exist and have their own country. Wouldn't expect a typical right wing Indian armchair troll to know perspective though.
bharathh Posted October 25, 2023 Posted October 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: Something which doesn't constitute war crimes and isn't an attempt at genocide perhaps. Countries are expected to hold to standards w.r.t human rights etc than what terrorists and their actions do. Israel bombing 2m people in Gaza constitutes exactly that. What Israel should do ? 1. Stop the source of funding for Hamas in Qatar even if it's one that the Israeli govt actively encouraged in the recent past. 2. Undertake small precision strikes against Hamas without keeping the civilians at risk. You can't be killing children and then claim they are unfortunate casualties . 3. Work towards a solution (either a 2 state or a single state) for this because whatever Israel's tried in the past isn't solving the problem. Indian posters need not show their Islamophobic behaviour and celebrate the behaviour of Israelis towards Palestinians. That's reprehensible and deserves to get called out for what it exactly is. As I said , people can be supportive of Israel's right to exist / self defense and also criticise their policies towards Palestinians. The same way , people can criticize the actions of Hamas and other Palestinian leadership while still be supportive of the Palestinian right to exist and have their own country. Wouldn't expect a typical right wing Indian armchair troll to know perspective though. Hamas is the active govt in Gaza. Any aid has to be released to them in order for them to do anything with the Gazans. You take this as supporting Hamas. Who should the aid be routed to according to you? Who will ensure that these developmental tasks get done? How does anyone prevent Hamas from riding roughshod over anyone who is trying to do something in Gaza without them taking some or most of it for their own agendas? What is the non-violent solution to remove Hamas? The Nazis were removed through force - not through kitty parties and appeals to their better side. The carpet bombing of Dresden by the RAF etc. were also war crimes - where thousands of innocent German children who were not Nazis died. This happened. Not sure if anyone remembers this well. What is your single state solution btw? ravishingravi 1
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