Jasprit Bumrah - Best average in last 100 years (min 150 wkts)

[Ultimate_Game]

24 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I'd go even further to say - in the final of an ICC tournament. It is here that India has fallen short many times, most agonizingly in the recent ODIWC.

 

Kohli has performed in a QF/SF, but unless the pinnacle is reached, it will not be remembered. Fair or not, it comes with the territory of being a superstar and they must embrace it.

 

And TBH he's had more chances than likes of Gambhir did. Kohli has had chances in 2 WTC finals - that's 4 innings, across ODI WCs, and WT20s. He simply hasn't showed up when we needed someone to be the difference. Reaching knockouts is no big deal as we can do so with other folks too - there're barely 3-4 decent teams going around and you simply have to beat up weaker teams to get to knockouts. The real tourney starts at knockout stage, and our stars (Kohli, Rohit, KL, Jadeja etc.) simply haven't made any difference.

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Marshall was not 150 by any means

uhh yes he was. except garner, the rest of the fearsome foursome were all in the 150+ zone at their peak.

 

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I don't believe any of them consistently hit 145+. Maybe Patrick Patterson, but he was a bit of a flash in the pan.

 

The others were more menacing because it was an era of less protection for batsmen plus more bowler-friendly pitches.

you dont beat players for pace by being more menacing and due to the pitch. you do it with sheer pace. Holding & Marshall were definitely 150+ zone, Holding is the most consistently fast bowler to've ever played the game. Roberts is the only one where there is genuine question as to whether he was 150+ or not at his peak ( Garner wasn't).

 

[Kron]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

you dont beat players for pace by being more menacing and due to the pitch. you do it with sheer pace. Holding & Marshall were definitely 150+ zone, Holding is the most consistently fast bowler to've ever played the game. Roberts is the only one where there is genuine question as to whether he was 150+ or not at his peak ( Garner wasn't).

 

I felt like holding and Roberts were genuinely 145 to 155 range. 

 

Marshall a touch under. 140 to 150. 

 

And to think these guys played so much first class cricket as well. So durable, tough, strong, skilful, accurate. Complete package. 

 

West Indian quartet will always be the best ever

 Nobody will come close. 

 

Australian attack with mcg and Warne is nothing cause Lee was a nothing bowler. Gillespie was good but not great. 

 

Sane issues with India and south african attacks in modern times or their 90s with donal etc. There is like 2 high quality bowlers in these teams but not high quality support cast. 

 

 

[Kron]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Yes one knockout match winning performance will be good for a start

Yea just win one. Ek to jeet lo lol

 

Kohli and rohit failed in 7. 7 God damn it. That's too many. Should have been dropped ages back. 

 

 

[JaFanatic]

10 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

uhh yes he was. except garner, the rest of the fearsome foursome were all in the 150+ zone at their peak.

 

[Rightarmfast]

12 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

you dont beat players for pace by being more menacing and due to the pitch. you do it with sheer pace. Holding & Marshall were definitely 150+ zone, Holding is the most consistently fast bowler to've ever played the game. Roberts is the only one where there is genuine question as to whether he was 150+ or not at his peak ( Garner wasn't).

 

For once, I would prefer disagreeing with you. I am going to place Jasprit Bumrah right above or at par with Marshall. In any event, I wont have Bumrah in the 2nd tier. And here's my logic why:

1- Havent checked Marshall's stats for first 8-9 yrs. I think Bumrah has been playing for the last 8-9 yrs and he has been ridiculously consistent. I do not know how consistent Marshall was. He may well have been. But what shifts winds towards Bumrah is that Bumrah has been playing enormous amount of cricket, and no matter which format, which team or at which level Bumrah has been playing, he has always come up ace! Bumrah has always been top performer. So the sheer magnanimity of the no of formats and games, there's no way Marshall could match that. 

 

2- Despite playing so much, Bumrah has still been pretty quick. In the initial 4-5 yrs, he was clicking in excess of 150k's or close, and even now, he has been clicking in excess of 92mph and hovering around 93mph. That's insane. 

 

3- West Indies always had a history of fast bowlers. The support, whether in training or bowling in tandem was always there. Bumrah had none of that. When he came into the scene, the fast bowling culture was still being built. And now that he has been there for a while, the fast bowling culture is being broken. All thanks to our selectors and management. Despite that, he emerged as best. Well, it's always easier to excel when you have a great support system with you. That would make it a tad easier for Marshall than for Bumrah. 

 

Haven't written all this just for the sake of argument. But I truly believe so.

[Rightarmfast]

@Muloghonto One interesting stat I just checked is that Marshall did not fare too well in NZ. Neither has Bumrah, though. Also, Marshall started performing from the 4th yr of his career. His record in ODi is not great. Although, Bumrah is an all format player. Also, Marshall may not have been a 150+ bowler. More 145ish or thereabouts. Which he reduced speed at a later part.

I think Imran Khan at his quickest would have been around 145-147ish. Mostly would have been like 140-142ish.

[Kron]

3 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

@Muloghonto One interesting stat I just checked is that Marshall did not fare too well in NZ. Neither has Bumrah, though. Also, Marshall started performing from the 4th yr of his career. His record in ODi is not great. Although, Bumrah is an all format player. Also, Marshall may not have been a 150+ bowler. More 145ish or thereabouts. Which he reduced speed at a later part.

I think Imran Khan at his quickest would have been around 145-147ish. Mostly would have been like 140-142ish.

Imran peak 135 to 147

After 7 years In he definitely went down to 133 to 142. 

[Kron]

3 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

For once, I would prefer disagreeing with you. I am going to place Jasprit Bumrah right above or at par with Marshall. In any event, I wont have Bumrah in the 2nd tier. And here's my logic why:

1- Havent checked Marshall's stats for first 8-9 yrs. I think Bumrah has been playing for the last 8-9 yrs and he has been ridiculously consistent. I do not know how consistent Marshall was. He may well have been. But what shifts winds towards Bumrah is that Bumrah has been playing enormous amount of cricket, and no matter which format, which team or at which level Bumrah has been playing, he has always come up ace! Bumrah has always been top performer. So the sheer magnanimity of the no of formats and games, there's no way Marshall could match that. 

 

2- Despite playing so much, Bumrah has still been pretty quick. In the initial 4-5 yrs, he was clicking in excess of 150k's or close, and even now, he has been clicking in excess of 92mph and hovering around 93mph. That's insane. 

 

3- West Indies always had a history of fast bowlers. The support, whether in training or bowling in tandem was always there. Bumrah had none of that. When he came into the scene, the fast bowling culture was still being built. And now that he has been there for a while, the fast bowling culture is being broken. All thanks to our selectors and management. Despite that, he emerged as best. Well, it's always easier to excel when you have a great support system with you. That would make it a tad easier for Marshall than for Bumrah. 

 

Haven't written all this just for the sake of argument. But I truly believe so.

Too many casual morons writing him off for his action. Have no clue about what his biomechanics of his action. First they said 4 over player. Then he won't last odi for long. Then his career will end in 4 years in test cricket. 8 years now. Still going strong. All formats. 

 

He just needs a odi or wtc title now. 

Just get his hands on one trophy and then a few more will follow. Just needs. Breakthrough 

 

Remember steyn dint win **** too. He is still regarded as one of the best ever. 

 

Bumrah came to finals 3 times. Sadly lost. 

Semi finals twice. 

 

Don't forget india play with quota based selections. Self inflicted. 

[Majestic]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:17 AM, Kron said:

In India where he averaged 16 for thr series on dead tracks. Unreal bowler. 

He only needs to improve performances in one off wtc finals. He only played one though and played injured.

Let Bumrah avg 16 in India with 150 test wickets? Then we will see.

Edited June 15, 2024 by Majestic

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

Too many casual morons writing him off for his action. Have no clue about what his biomechanics of his action. First they said 4 over player. Then he won't last odi for long. Then his career will end in 4 years in test cricket. 8 years now. Still going strong. All formats. 

 

He just needs a odi or wtc title now. 

Just get his hands on one trophy and then a few more will follow. Just needs. Breakthrough 

 

Remember steyn dint win **** too. He is still regarded as one of the best ever. 

 

Bumrah came to finals 3 times. Sadly lost. 

Semi finals twice. 

 

Don't forget india play with quota based selections. Self inflicted. 

Those quota based selections you are referring were top performers for India in the World Cup 2023. It is more like it's self assumed by fans rather than self inflicted on players.

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

Too many casual morons writing him off for his action. Have no clue about what his biomechanics of his action. First they said 4 over player. Then he won't last odi for long. Then his career will end in 4 years in test cricket. 8 years now. Still going strong. All formats. 

 

He just needs a odi or wtc title now. 

Just get his hands on one trophy and then a few more will follow. Just needs. Breakthrough 

 

Remember steyn dint win **** too. He is still regarded as one of the best ever. 

 

Bumrah came to finals 3 times. Sadly lost. 

Semi finals twice. 

 

Don't forget india play with quota based selections. Self inflicted. 

8 years now?

 

Yeah, 8 years where he managed to pick 159 wickets. 

 

Waqar Younis, a not so legendary fast bowler, picked 159 wickets in 4 years and ended with almost 800 all format international wickets.

[Gollum]

Let him deliver a match winning performance in one ICC KO. This is his 9th year in international cricket, yet shits his pant in Asia Cup KO. 

 

Never seen a potential ATG fail 100% of the times in KOs. 

[bones]

Amazing bowler - very worried whenever we play against him - you're guaranteed troubles on all surfaces. Average of 20.7 over 36 games in tests and 23.6 in the 50 over version. I do want the 50 over format to be buried once and for all but in the format that counts his average is remarkable.

 

If he can can keep it below 22 and rack up another 40 tests I will put him in my top 5. Currently he's just outside my top 10 and that's purely because he's played far fewer tests. If he somehow manages to get to 100 tests and maintains the same average he goes to number 1.

 

Right now Steyn, McGrath, Mashall, Rabada, Garner, Ambrose, Hadlee, Philander, Cummins, Donald,  Trueman, Murali, Imran Khan, Pollock and the 2 Ws to name a few are above him because they did it for 20, 30 more tests at least. For some of these bowlers that's 5 years worth of cricket.

 

He has the potential and good luck to him with it.

 

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, bones said:

Amazing bowler - very worried whenever we play against him - you're guaranteed troubles on all surfaces. Average of 20.7 over 36 games in tests and 23.6 in the 50 over version. I do want the 50 over format to be buried once and for all but in the format that counts his average is remarkable.

 

If he can can keep it below 22 and rack up another 40 tests I will put him in my top 5. Currently he's just outside my top 10 and that's purely because he's played far fewer tests. If he somehow manages to get to 100 tests and maintains the same average he goes to number 1.

 

Right now Steyn, McGrath, Mashall, Rabada, Garner, Ambrose, Hadlee, Philander, Cummins, Donald,  Trueman, Murali, Imran Khan, Pollock and the 2 Ws to name a few are above him because they did it for 20, 30 more tests at least. For some of these bowlers that's 5 years worth of cricket.

 

He has the potential and good luck to him with it.

 

I agree, it is too early to put Bumrah in ATG category in any format.

 

Can he play 75 tests is the big question.

 

 

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Let Bumrah avg 16 in India with 150 test wickets? Then we will see.

Who averaged 16 in India? 

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Those quota based selections you are referring were top performers for India in the World Cup 2023. It is more like it's self assumed by fans rather than self inflicted on players.

They were perennial failures. They dropped top talents like jaiswal, dint drop siraj for a talented young Indian quick

And so on. 

We all know Indian picks based on seniority, star status etc. 

Wrong selection after wrong selection. What's the use of making finals if you can't win. Give the you gsters like 8 tourney to play and they would actually win us titles like they helped us win In Australia twice. For the test series I mean. 

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

8 years now?

 

Yeah, 8 years where he managed to pick 159 wickets. 

 

Waqar Younis, a not so legendary fast bowler, picked 159 wickets in 4 years and ended with almost 800 all format international wickets.

Yes ok. Waqar is better than bumrah. His record is unbeatable in Australia and India. What a bowler he was. 

 

Peak ability doesn't matter. Only wickets. If only wickets matter then broad can be greatet. Bored greater than waqar. 

 

Also not even going to mention tampered balls etc and playing against weak batsmen in the early 90s.

[Kron]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Let him deliver a match winning performance in one ICC KO. This is his 9th year in international cricket, yet shits his pant in Asia Cup KO. 

 

Never seen a potential ATG fail 100% of the times in KOs. 

Steyn Waqar (not a great for me but ok) all failed in ko stages plenty of times. 

 

Ambrose? 

 

If you play under a fodder like rohit then you are bound to fail. Meek timid captain.