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Jasprit Bumrah - Best average in last 100 years (min 150 wkts)


Serpico

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24 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

If the forum can keep a retard like you entertained for so long, I see no harm in it keeping others busy here. :phehe:

Jesis?? What u been smoking dude..?

 

As expected, an undereducated response (as if people who post here are like those living in his mohla) :rofl:

 

Trying to take unnecessary panga with posters! :hmmm:

 

Edited by zen
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36 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Naah, I have seen numbers, and hence I say he has been a 150+ bowler. I will share some data with you.

and naah, Bumrah wouldn't have burnt out. It's just your assumption. Now, if you start analysing players the way you are based on training available during that time, I think even a No 11 batsman in the late 70's and early 80's era was a better batsman than Virat Kohli and Tendulkar. because they never got the training these players do. And in that respect, Kapil Dev was a better bowler than Cummins.

 

Its not about beign burnt out. its about recovering from his injury- which wouldn't have happened in the 80s WI team, nor would he have displaced the new greats from the team. 

I never said anything about training. I said about coaching. Which is to do with planning and benefits bowlers a lot more than batsmen.

 

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35 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Longevity is something you can debate on. However, your argument would be premature because we have to wait to see what happens in the next 5 yrs. However, the trajectory in the last 9 yrs shows that Bumrah will keep on progressing. There's no data available to prove otherwise. 

And for him to reach 300 wickets, the teams need to have as many test matches as well. 

 

There is no debate in longetivity or durability. Bumrah has less than 50 tests and 200 wickets. That too, in nearly 8-9 years since debut. That doesnt speak well of his durability and he does not have the longetivity factor- yet. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

For quality? I mean thats a bit funny @Muloghonto Ambrose by no means was better in quality. He didn't have the variations that Bumrah has. Plain and simple. Didnt even have the same record that Bumrah has, despite playing in an era where the bowlers had more advantages plus the pitches were more bowler friendly. You are stretching it. Let's be realistic.

And I do not think Marshall was better quality wise either. They can be at par. 

Ambrose had better control than bumrah does. Plain and simple. He has over twice the # of wickets as Bumrah, so lets see whether Bumrah can even come close to ambrose in statistics. Bumrah is by no means the best fast bowler ever. He may not even be the best fast bowler of his generation when all is said and done ( Cummins and Rabada are his contenders).

 

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5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Ambrose had better control than bumrah does. Plain and simple. He has over twice the # of wickets as Bumrah, so lets see whether Bumrah can even come close to ambrose in statistics. Bumrah is by no means the best fast bowler ever. He may not even be the best fast bowler of his generation when all is said and done ( Cummins and Rabada are his contenders).

 

There is no debate about marshal being the best. 

Ambrose is up there but only peg him down a tad cause he dint tour india iirc. 

 

Bumrah need to hel0 india win a series in England and atleast draw in nz and win a wtc then we shall see where we can rank him. 

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5 hours ago, putrevus said:

So now we have people saying Bumrah is better than Ambrose.I want to smoke what they are smoking.

Ambrose 1/7

No one can do that. 

 

Although Ambrose also is a choker in loi. 

 

Bumrah needs to win the wtc and a couple more series in eng and or atleast draw in nz then we can compare him to ambrose

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I think people often look back at past bowlers with rose-tinted glasses. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that legends like Marshall and Ambrose would struggle in today's white-ball cricket. Marshall's ODI bowling average was 27, and that was during a time when batsmen were still figuring out how to play ODI cricket. And after the bouncer rule came in 1992, Ambrose averaged 28 after that, and that was on pitches that weren't as flat as they are now and before bat technology improved with bigger sizes and lower weight.

 

Not saying Bumrah is better, but this is a classic example of why you cant really judge players from different eras.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Ambrose had better control than bumrah does. Plain and simple. He has over twice the # of wickets as Bumrah, so lets see whether Bumrah can even come close to ambrose in statistics. Bumrah is by no means the best fast bowler ever. He may not even be the best fast bowler of his generation when all is said and done ( Cummins and Rabada are his contenders).

 

Across formats both are behind Bumrah.

Bumrah is the only one who is able to maintain under 25 average in all 3 formats. Cummins is excellent in Tests, good in T20's & decent in ODI's. Rabada is poor in T20's though & decent in ODI's.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

There is no debate in longetivity or durability. Bumrah has less than 50 tests and 200 wickets. That too, in nearly 8-9 years since debut. That doesnt speak well of his durability and he does not have the longetivity factor- yet. 

 

6.5 to be precise. Bumrah debuted in Tests in 2018 only. 

He is playing white ball from 2016. Wasn't considered as a Test bowler for an year and half. 

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Anyone arguing about Bumrah already being a GOAT contender should be slapped left and right until he faints.

 

He is not even the best asian Bowler yet, I rate Wasim, Imran higher than him as of now.

 

Ambrose has taken 400 wkts at a lesser average, what are people smoking here, average will go down as his career progresses.

 

As of now he is an ATG contender and just a contender, need to take around 250test wkts to be called an ATG

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15 hours ago, putrevus said:

So now we have people saying Bumrah is better than Ambrose.I want to smoke what they are smoking.

I generally smoke Iceburst these days. rs340 a pack, rs18 a pop. 

but not sure if my iceburst has any effect on me judging Bumrah's bowling.

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On 6/16/2024 at 11:43 AM, putrevus said:

Bumrah is not better test bowler than Marshall yet. Marshall took 370 plus wickets at 20.99. Marshall had to contend for wickets with 3 other great fast bowlers. Let Bumrah reach 250 wickets before putting him as an ATG great fast bowler.

 

He had two series on his hand but both test series, he came up very short one as a captain and anohter as bowler. So let us pump the brakes about putting him into ATG category.

 

Ambrose and Walsh have more test wickets than Marshall but they themselves have told many times Marshall is best fast bowler from WI.Ambrose was not far behind Marshall as test bowler but Marshall was more skilled.Ambrose was far better odi bowler than Marshall.

 

Whiteball cricket just like Steyn, Marshall is not ATG.

 

Shami has outbowled Bumrah in 50 over world cups both in 2019 and 2023.So where does that put Bumrah in whiteball cricket?

 

 

No conversation of Bumrah is complete without a mention of how injuries have affected his career so far. I would like to see him play consistently injury-free for 3-4 more years before placing him on any ATG/GOAT list.

 

And in any case, ATG/GOAT list opinions are just opinions. What matters is that he sustains his current form in tests and T20s (I'd sit him in ODIs) and helps India keep winning.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Ambrose had better control than bumrah does. Plain and simple. He has over twice the # of wickets as Bumrah, so lets see whether Bumrah can even come close to ambrose in statistics. Bumrah is by no means the best fast bowler ever. He may not even be the best fast bowler of his generation when all is said and done ( Cummins and Rabada are his contenders).

 

I really like you @Muloghonto but sometimes you make me laugh. Ambrose's avg in Pakistan is 25+. In SA is 23+ ( which is still phenomenal). However, lucky he never played in India, or his avg in India would have been 27+!

He played 20 tests in England with an avg of 20 odd, and England used to be a spineless team in that era. They were Zimbabwe level team.

Ambrose played 52 matches in WI, ie majority of his cricket on his home ground with an avg of 21 odd. Now, we have had spinners and batsmen from India who have marauded oppositions in India, but we dont call them world beaters. We despise them. Ambrose's career took a spike by performing in familiar environment, friendly atmosphere and known pitches. I am sorry, I do not call that the world's best. Just like how I dont call Ashwin the best spinner. 

 

Nah, I do not buy your logic of Ambrose having more control than Bumrah. If he had, he would have had better stats in Pakistan. You can live in this make believe logic, but I do not. 

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1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

No conversation of Bumrah is complete without a mention of how injuries have affected his career so far. I would like to see him play consistently injury-free for 3-4 more years before placing him on any ATG/GOAT list.

 

And in any case, ATG/GOAT list opinions are just opinions. What matters is that he sustains his current form in tests and T20s (I'd sit him in ODIs) and helps India keep winning.

 

 

 

You cannot go into a conversion of ATG with such a small body of work like Bumrah.

 

He is not even best from Asia yet. I certainly hope he helps India go over the line in this world t20.

 

I hope I am wrong but I don't think he can play injury free for two reasons, he plays all formats which means he gets no rest plus his action .

Edited by putrevus
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