Team India extend world record to 17 consecutive test series wins on home soil

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

 

People compare China and India blindly. They are not at the same level.

 

China is almost first world. Will be in 15-20 years. Their pc income is 5-6 times that of India's.

Eastern Europe is even further ahead.

 

It will take us 25-30 years to get to $10k-12k.

 

Africa is really bad at the Olympics. Most African countries don't even medal. Black people from USA and Europe do well.

 

Commitment, culture etc are rubbish excuses. The main issue is poverty. Korea was a single medal country until the 70s.

 

India is way stronger now than it was 10 years ago and 10 years later will be even stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

it's not just per capita income (PCI). there are quite a number of countries that medal more than us with lower PCI

[deathmonger]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:30 AM, Kron said:

Thanks to Indians for allowing Brits to divide and conquer. No one to blame but our own people. Getting involved in bribery, treachery, switching and just being slimy ruined our once strong nation. It's getting there but it will take another 20 years now

yes 20-30 years

[deathmonger]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:36 AM, Vijy said:

it's not just per capita income (PCI). there are quite a number of countries that medal more than us with lower PCI

which ones?

 

name some?

 

The only countries which are poorer than India are the rest of the subcontinent and middle/black Africa (northern Arabs are richer as is South Africa/Botswana etc).

 

Kenya is the only country poorer than us who did better last Olympics and they have an almost similar pci plus proficiency in long distance racing.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2024 by deathmonger

[Kron]

34 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

which ones?

 

name some?

 

The only countries which are poorer than India are the rest of the subcontinent and middle/black Africa (northern Arabs are richer as is South Africa/Botswana etc).

 

Kenya is the only country poorer than us who did better last Olympics and they have an almost similar pci plus proficiency in long distance racing.

 

 

People don't realize unless government subsidies fees and costs like Russia and many top ranked countries or offer scholarships which india really don't for individual sports, it is incredibly expensive to affordable to pay for coaches. Ice hockey players pay nearly 20 k for ice time if you aren't near ice rinks. Training camps another 10 k. Per year in usd

 

Individual. Coaches for swimming, diving and artistic ballet go through the roof. Almost 20 k to 30 k a year depending on the institute. Dollars.

 

Even boxing coaches are not cheap and can cost upwards of 10 k per year if you do it full time but it can be compensated if you offer to fight for your club. 

 

 

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, Kron said:

People don't realize unless government subsidies fees and costs like Russia and many top ranked countries or offer scholarships which india really don't for individual sports, it is incredibly expensive to affordable to pay for coaches. Ice hockey players pay nearly 20 k for ice time if you aren't near ice rinks. Training camps another 10 k. Per year in usd

 

Individual. Coaches for swimming, diving and artistic ballet go through the roof. Almost 20 k to 30 k a year depending on the institute. Dollars.

 

Even boxing coaches are not cheap and can cost upwards of 10 k per year if you do it full time but it can be compensated if you offer to fight for your club. 

 

 

People don't understand how poor India is and compare with China, Latin American countries, East European countries etc.

 

Those countries are "poor" compared to the west and the developed east. They are still way way ahead of India with 8k-16k usd pc. We are at around 2.6k usd.

 

American media might show Latin America/Mexico as some drug filled rebel filled hellhole (with a yellow filter) and Eastern Europe as some post communist hellhole (with a gray filter) but they are extremely normal, decently prosperous countries.

 

Even the non oil ME countries (Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Iran) and SE countries (Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam) are richer than India.

[Gollum]

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

Edited March 17, 2024 by Gollum

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

Thing is sportspeople come from blue collar classes and our blue collar is extremely poor and can't even afford non-vegetarian even if they eat it.

 

The rich Indians and desis abroad tend to be more white collar and do not pursue sports and tend to be from vegetarian backgrounds/castes as well.

 

India has to become rich enough that even the poor people can afford good nutrition etc.

 

African Americans and Black/Muslim Europeans are poorer than their white counterparts but by virtue of being in a first world country have access to good diet and infrastructure and thus are able to dominate in sports.

 

Indira's years from 1960-1985 were a complete waste. India's pc income stagnated at that time.

Edited March 17, 2024 by deathmonger

[Real McCoy]

Thanks to @Gollum for preparing this to highlight India's dominance at home. For me, 2012 loss to England seem to have happened just a while ago. But its been more than a decade. We usually find faults of the Indian team right here in ICF. We have to be equally be full of praise when things like this happens. Hats off to the Indian team and congratulations to the other ICFers

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

nutrition is vital, as is having appropriate talent-spotting and nurturing programmes, something that many countries do better than us (also tied to what you wrote: infrastructure, HRD, etc)

[Kron]

Actually due to colonialism, many Indians suffered from malnutrition. When world war 2 happened, lots of wheat, grain, pulses were shipped off to feed English soldiers whilst the Indian ones starved. Yet they were tough enough to withstand the rigours of War and pulled through. Indians are survivors. Fighters. The thing is all we needed was unity

 Unfortunately we lacked that and that's why we paid for it. Cant believe how selfish and self centred our predecessors were that they would allow these foreign dogs to divide and conquer. We had too many traitors. 

 

Also this practice of fasting etc doesn't help. Many indian families don't eat meat on certain days either. 

 

Btw, people say blacks dominate sport. Yea American blacks and well off european countries that offer scholarships and subsidies to their black athletes. We can't afford any of that. You got some odd exceptions from Ethiopia here and there for a couple of events that's it. 

 

Also due to slavery, just remember only the strongest and toughest survived amongst black people. Hence the genes inherited happened to be of the best possible gene pool. Not that they are naturally superior. Rubbish. Everything is trained for. 

 

And most rich Indians abroad do not play sport. They just don't. Parents don't encourage it. So stop expecting athletes when the rich ones have zero interest. Blue collar ones are the tough people that can play sport but the blue collar people in India are poor unfortunately. So can't devote time for hobbies. Period. Lots need to change. When our government is less corrupt we will see more changes.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Kron

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Actually due to colonialism, many Indians suffered from malnutrition. When world war 2 happened, lots of wheat, grain, pulses were shipped off to feed English soldiers whilst the Indian ones starved. Yet they were tough enough to withstand the rigours of War and pulled through. Indians are survivors. Fighters. The thing is all we needed was unity

 Unfortunately we lacked that and that's why we paid for it. Cant believe how selfish and self centred our predecessors were that they would allow these foreign dogs to divide and conquer. We had too many traitors. 

 

Also this practice of fasting etc doesn't help. Many indian families don't eat meat on certain days either. 

 

Btw, people say blacks dominate sport. Yea American blacks and well off european countries that offer scholarships and subsidies to their black athletes. We can't afford any of that. You got some odd exceptions from Ethiopia here and there for a couple of events that's it. 

 

Also due to slavery, just remember only the strongest and toughest survived amongst black people. Hence the genes inherited happened to be of the best possible gene pool. Not that they are naturally superior. Rubbish. Everything is trained for. 

 

And most rich Indians abroad do not play sport. They just don't. Parents don't encourage it. So stop expecting athletes when the rich ones have zero interest. Blue collar ones are the tough people that can play sport but the blue collar people in India are poor unfortunately. So can't devote time for hobbies. Period. Lots need to change. When our government is less corrupt we will see more changes.

Yup, exactly.

 

Black people in US and Europe are the blue collar class but due to those being first world countries, they have access to good nutrition and facilities, allowing them to maximize their potential. Most European and American blacks live way better life than the vast majority of Indians.

 

As India becomes richer and the blue collar class become richer, you will see an uptick.

 

Even the Indian cricket team has benefited a lot from more blue collar rural guys coming into the fray compared to the more urban English speaking types pre 2000s. When you confine yourself to the upper classes, the pool is very small.

[Kron]

40 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Dude this excuse doesn't hold up after 30 years. China is a perfect example, before 2000 it was even more poorer than India in every aspect. Before that under Mao, even worse shape than African countries.

 

They invested heavily in infrastructure, talent, high speed rail etc. that allowed blue collar worker upliftment.

 

This idea of "colonial masters" having screwed us is getting old now and does not hold relevance. It would have until 1992 or so when all major countries were in equal footing.

 

Look at prosperity of Vietnam, Mexico, Brazil, Chile or even nations like Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea etc.

 

North Korea never had colonialism - even they though had their own starvation and proxy wars. But it's the poorest country compared to South Korea even though both countries share the same cultural footing.

 

Let's face the reality and call it the way it is. The fact that we even have cricket dominance is because of the British and we are dominating the sport because many countries of regressed. Look at Sri Lanka, Pakistan, West Indies and even a country like South Africa. These are playing like minnows now.

 

Only Australia and depending on the conditions England/New Zealand can be considered as real competition. Which means India is guaranteed semi final spot even if they select rank juniors in the team with Bumrah, Kuldeep as the "experienced" bowlers and everyone else being youngsters.

 

This whole patting on the back for a sport where #3 is guaranteed is laughably getting old. Sachin, Ganguly etc. played at a time when all the teams above gave a tough competition. At least 8 world class teams...

 

With the way SL, Pak, BD etc. are playing I doubt there will even be interest in cricket 10 years from now at this rate. It's high time India starts diversifying to other sports and olympics. Otherwise, there will be no money in the game of cricket. Are we even emotionally invested in the games anymore like in the past? I doubt it.

 

Same thing is being discussed with Baseball in the US now. It's waning in popularity precisely for this reason, there's no emotion in the sport anymore.

Yes i agree but our government is corrupt and we all know it. Hence the lack of investment in sports, facilities and infrastructure. 

 

China on the other hand invests heavily in sports. 

[Sandz]

On 3/15/2024 at 10:28 AM, deathmonger said:

 

People compare China and India blindly. They are not at the same level.

 

China is almost first world. Will be in 15-20 years. Their pc income is 5-6 times that of India's.

Eastern Europe is even further ahead.

 

It will take us 25-30 years to get to $10k-12k.

 

Africa is really bad at the Olympics. Most African countries don't even medal. Black people from USA and Europe do well.

 

Commitment, culture etc are rubbish excuses. The main issue is poverty. Korea was a single medal country until the 70s.

 

India is way stronger now than it was 10 years ago and 10 years later will be even stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

China has left India in dust, they are so far ahead, it’s not funny. I was rewatching Grand Tour China episode and the amount of road development and bridges they have is staggering, and that was pre COVID.  They had zero motorways in 1990 and now have 84000 miles of it and they built it all themselves without any colonial help. 
 

When it comes to engineering and manufacturing we are not in the same continent, it’s a no contest, the referee needs to step in and stop the match. I don’t see us getting anywhere near even in the next 20-30 years.
 

 

[deathmonger]

On 3/18/2024 at 3:16 AM, BlueBlood said:

 

When India becomes "richer" and "blue collar class become richer" same thing has been said since 2000. Nothing has changed.

 

Reality is, the brain drain has accelerated. It's just the poor and pathetic management by politicians who look out for corporate interest first before making any major plans.

 

It has continued on for the last 50+ years. The solution is not chest thumping but actually laying the ground work with a proper plan.

 

China had this grand vision where they would host the olympics and win tons of medals. They planned it for 15 years and made it a reality.

 

India needs to put such deadlines and make drastic changes. Instead of sitting on a high horse and crying foul against injustice done 70+ years ago.

Naah, India is way better off than in 2000.

 

2000 we sucked. Just won one bronze and were nobodies in wrestling, badminton etc.

[deathmonger]

On 3/18/2024 at 4:06 AM, BlueBlood said:

 

We keep saying 20-30 years. I think the answer is "never"

 

The biggest hurdle is on one hand half of the country has become fanatics where they ban eggs, meat and even dairy from the diet.

 

The other half of the country is too busy making ends meet where they don't have time for bigger picture thinking.

 

That leaves 1% who are in it for themselves calling the shots. Every single decision from the higher ups is with the blessing of corporations. It's getting so ridiculous that even foreign companies have understood that if they team up with Adani, Ambani etc. anything can get through the bureaucracy.

 

Pure corruption. Look at Saudi Arabia, the crowned prince in 2014 said that they will host Winter olympics in the middle of the desert and they are already building infrastructure in the desert for 2029 winter olympics that they are hosting. 

 

That's courage. It's never done in India. This new nonsense is propping up now where we are to be satisfied with the lackluster progress because of excuses like colonialism, "we are better than Pak", we just lack the genetics etc.

 

It's simple, the government if it really wants to team up with Adani, Ambani and other corporates give them contracts with deadlines that is seems impossible but can be done. Instead, you have all the national infrastructure sold to corporations.

 

Now with the diet of the schooling system changing due to lack of protein and proper nutrition, it will have such a big impact on development of next generation, we will know the impacts in 20 years. As they say: it happens slowly and then suddenly.

 

In 20 years, people will come with other excuses saying "20-30 more years". I remember as a kid growing up they used to say "vision 2020" where India will be the next Singapore. Now it's morphing to "Vision 2050" same crap different branding of patriotism. It's the public's fault where they are so brainwashed they want zero accountability unless it becomes a crisis.

Vision 2020 was super delusional by out of touch boomers.

 

This conservative boomer generation that calls the shots should die.

 

2050 we should be pretty decent but we are never overtaking China.

[Vijy]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:08 AM, deathmonger said:

Vision 2020 was super delusional by out of touch boomers.

 

This conservative boomer generation that calls the shots should die.

 

2050 we should be pretty decent but we are never overtaking China.

too many variables. can go either way