India's richest 1% holds 40% of wealth; inequality rising since 2000s:

[bharathh]

17 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Vietnam...  Crazy transformation.  Tiger of Asia

 

 

Hopefully all the Bangladeshis run there now! 

 

That said - let's see if Vietnam is able to take the step beyond middle income into developed economy once the labour arbitrage evens out. It will be interesting to see how far they get to once big brother China starts taking an interest in the country, given that they are a neighbour and starts harassing them.

[gattaca]

2 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

Hopefully all the Bangladeshis run there now! 

 

That said - let's see if Vietnam is able to take the step beyond middle income into developed economy once the labour arbitrage evens out. It will be interesting to see how far they get to once big brother China starts taking an interest in the country, given that they are a neighbour and starts harassing them.

Chinese are setting their companies in Vietnam. It will be vassal state. 

[ravishingravi]

3 hours ago, gattaca said:

Chinese are setting their companies in Vietnam. It will be vassal state. 

 

Not necessarily. Vietnam plays both sides like India. 

[Lone Wolf]

5 hours ago, gattaca said:

Chinese are setting their companies in Vietnam. It will be vassal state. 

Lol no...  Vietnam gas strong ties with US and Japs... 

Most of Vietnamese workforce is employed in Japan. 

Third biggest trading partner too. 

 

Vietnam actually knows to play both sides without compromising its sovereignty like SoKo and Japan Australia 

[Lone Wolf]

8 hours ago, bharathh said:

 

Hopefully all the Bangladeshis run there now! 

 

That said - let's see if Vietnam is able to take the step beyond middle income into developed economy once the labour arbitrage evens out. It will be interesting to see how far they get to once big brother China starts taking an interest in the country, given that they are a neighbour and starts harassing them.

China atm doesn't want to make a enemy outta them...  It would be foolish to anger a country like Vietnam which is growing into a credible regional power in SEA.  

They are busy with Filipinos and Japs these days though. 

[BlueBlood]

On 3/24/2024 at 8:16 AM, gattaca said:

Force top corporations lol ? What are we ? Communists ? Companies choose their own and that’s how new companies are born. No one should force existing companies on their choice of investments. New money comes that way without forcing. If you don’t know about make in India go read about it. Government has formed few start up companies and given roadmap of 5 years to be profitable. The goal of these companies is to train and advise companies on new technologies. Manufacturing needs roads, ports and airports. If you don’t have these there will be delays in good delivery. U.S. investors will never establish innovation in other countries they only want Asia for cheap labor. The investors are ok throwing money within U.S.

 

Manufacturing needs not just infrastructure but actual vision from government.

 

The current vision is to enrich cronies close to government in highly regulated industries like telecom, petroleum, Healthcare, pharmaceutical, education, ports and airports.

 

This would be okay if the population was the size of Denmark or Norway.

 

With the size of the population there needs to be a plan like Vietnam, China and Mexico. These countries have invested heavily since 2010 on value add manufacturing jobs focused on exports.

 

Not a single industrialist in India are in any of the future facing industries like semiconductors or smartphones or robotics or even something as basic as AI technologies.

 

All this will come back to bite in 20 years when other countries will far surpass in exports and devalue the Indian currency even more due to lack of high value add exports.

[Muloghonto]

49 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Manufacturing needs not just infrastructure but actual vision from government.

 

The current vision is to enrich cronies close to government in highly regulated industries like telecom, petroleum, Healthcare, pharmaceutical, education, ports and airports.

 

This would be okay if the population was the size of Denmark or Norway.

 

With the size of the population there needs to be a plan like Vietnam, China and Mexico. These countries have invested heavily since 2010 on value add manufacturing jobs focused on exports.

 

Not a single industrialist in India are in any of the future facing industries like semiconductors or smartphones or robotics or even something as basic as AI technologies.

 

All this will come back to bite in 20 years when other countries will far surpass in exports and devalue the Indian currency even more due to lack of high value add exports.

 

what is the amount of semiconductor fabrication investment committed to india over the last 3 years again ? 

None of those countries you mentioned went anywhere before getting their infrastructure going fyi- something that this governmetn has done better than the sum total of all governments prior

 

[mishra]

38 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

what is the amount of semiconductor fabrication investment committed to india over the last 3 years again ? 

None of those countries you mentioned went anywhere before getting their infrastructure going fyi- something that this governmetn has done better than the sum total of all governments prior

 

In 2013, we were clubbed into fragile five. Now we are top five economies of world.

In 2013, GDP size was 1.7 trillion, Now its over 4 trillion.

There have been millions who have been uplifted from extreme poverty since Modi but how many billionaires India  reated under Modi? Just Adani and few unicorn owners.
 

So if anything , India needs more billionaires. People calling them cronies need to get there head checked as hundreds of milions of peiple are surviving and have a life because of these cronies.

Edited March 27 by mishra

[BlueBlood]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

In 2013, we were clubbed into fragile five. Now we are top five economies of world.

In 2013, GDP size was 1.7 trillion, Now its over 4 trillion.

There have been millions who have been uplifted from extreme poverty since Modi but how many billionaires India  reated under Modi? Just Adani and few unicorn owners.
 

So if anything , India needs more billionaires. People calling them cronies need to get there head checked as hundreds of milions of peiple are surviving and have a life because of these cronies.

 

This is what you forget..

 

2013 Average $1 US Dollar = 58 rupees.

 

Now $83.

 

That alone is devaluation of currency by 30%

 

So the GDP of 4 trillion is in reality due to currency devaluation is actually 2.8 trillion.

 

Now let's talk about inflation...

 

Over the past decade until 2022, consumer price inflation in India averaged 5.5%, which was above the Asia-Pacific's regional average of 2.1%.

 

So on a compounded annual basis from 2013 to now... No matter who the government was, the Indian economy would have been similarly positioned.

 

With China being a closed economy, it was bound to happen that FDI would enter India.

 

The problem here is PURPOSELY eliminating Walmart, Amazon and similar players in order to protect cronies across so many industries so monopolies can thrive which hurts consumer choice. And ZERO value add sectors encouraged to allow for exports because it would hurt cronies.

 

Again, perfectly fine if your population is the size of a Norway. There is only so much growth with Oyo (AirBNB clone), Swiggy (doordash clone), Ola (uber clone) etc.

 

Need the next Samsung, Nvidia, Apple or at least something like an OpenAI that is home grown. If a French company like Mistral can do great things, nothing is stopping India but there never will because of brain drain of talent in these areas as people know there's no hope of succeeding when cronyism is entrenched.

 

Until the next Mark Zuckerberg type entrepreneur becomes richest man/woman in India, no innovator will want stay here especially when they see rampant cronyism and nepotism. It's a fact and the emigration numbers don't lie.

[gattaca]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Manufacturing needs not just infrastructure but actual vision from government.

 

The current vision is to enrich cronies close to government in highly regulated industries like telecom, petroleum, Healthcare, pharmaceutical, education, ports and airports.

 

This would be okay if the population was the size of Denmark or Norway.

 

With the size of the population there needs to be a plan like Vietnam, China and Mexico. These countries have invested heavily since 2010 on value add manufacturing jobs focused on exports.

 

Not a single industrialist in India are in any of the future facing industries like semiconductors or smartphones or robotics or even something as basic as AI technologies.

 

All this will come back to bite in 20 years when other countries will far surpass in exports and devalue the Indian currency even more due to lack of high value add exports.

Indian govt invested 15 billion dollars for semiconductor multiple companies are already building plants. We have Indian companies, Japanese , Thai and American companies building plants. Indian govt plan is self sufficiency and then exports.

 

 

https://spectrum.ieee.org/indian-semiconductor-manufacturing 

[Lone Wolf]

4 hours ago, gattaca said:

Indian govt invested 15 billion dollars for semiconductor multiple companies are already building plants. We have Indian companies, Japanese , Thai and American companies building plants. Indian govt plan is self sufficiency and then exports.

 

 

https://spectrum.ieee.org/indian-semiconductor-manufacturing 

India probably faces far more challenges now than in the past.  Intel has agreed to set up a 3D chip plant in Malaysia. 

The last 3 decades are coming back to bite us.  Not many chip manufacturing companies seem interested...  Except Tower recently. 

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/deep-dive/story/indias-semiconductor-manufacturing-has-a-strong-foundation-been-laid-416123-2024-02-04

 

 

[kepler37b]

On 3/21/2024 at 3:23 AM, Singh bling said:

https://www.deccanherald.com/india/indias-richest-1-holds-40-of-wealth-inequality-rising-since-2000s-study-2944893

 

It said India's top 1 per cent population's income share appears to be among the highest in the world "behind only perhaps Peru, Yemen and a couple of other small countries".

 

Once AI comes along full fledged, top 0.1% might end up owning 99% of the wealth.

 

And remaining 99.9% living on Doles.

 

 

 

[Mariyam]

46 minutes ago, kepler37b said:

Once AI comes along full fledged, top 0.1% might end up owning 99% of the wealth.

 

And remaining 99.9% living on Doles.

 

 

 

Don't think it will be the case in India.

 

AI will have no effect whatsoever on farming. Or any kind of natural produce. Oil extraction. Coal extraction etc. Or will it?

[mishra]

7 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

This is what you forget..

 

2013 Average $1 US Dollar = 58 rupees.

 

Now $83.

 

That alone is devaluation of currency by 30%

 

So the GDP of 4 trillion is in reality due to currency devaluation is actually 2.8 trillion.

 

Now let's talk about inflation...

 

Over the past decade until 2022, consumer price inflation in India averaged 5.5%, which was above the Asia-Pacific's regional average of 2.1%.

 

So on a compounded annual basis from 2013 to now... No matter who the government was, the Indian economy would have been similarly positioned.

 

With China being a closed economy, it was bound to happen that FDI would enter India.

 

The problem here is PURPOSELY eliminating Walmart, Amazon and similar players in order to protect cronies across so many industries so monopolies can thrive which hurts consumer choice. And ZERO value add sectors encouraged to allow for exports because it would hurt cronies.

 

Again, perfectly fine if your population is the size of a Norway. There is only so much growth with Oyo (AirBNB clone), Swiggy (doordash clone), Ola (uber clone) etc.

 

Need the next Samsung, Nvidia, Apple or at least something like an OpenAI that is home grown. If a French company like Mistral can do great things, nothing is stopping India but there never will because of brain drain of talent in these areas as people know there's no hope of succeeding when cronyism is entrenched.

 

Until the next Mark Zuckerberg type entrepreneur becomes richest man/woman in India, no innovator will want stay here especially when they see rampant cronyism and nepotism. It's a fact and the emigration numbers don't lie.

4+ trillion is in USD Not in INR. Read some basics. Developed econoies, all of them has 2.1 percentage inflationary “TARGET”. None meet that.

u complain about Indian  rich getting richer, do u think if its not rich then who else can compete with other rich in rest of world who are getting richer by investing in various sphere. Neither average Joe nor gvmnts can compete. Thats why even Chinese have created a capitalist class.

Edited March 28 by mishra

[gattaca]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

India probably faces far more challenges now than in the past.  Intel has agreed to set up a 3D chip plant in Malaysia. 

The last 3 decades are coming back to bite us.  Not many chip manufacturing companies seem interested...  Except Tower recently. 

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/deep-dive/story/indias-semiconductor-manufacturing-has-a-strong-foundation-been-laid-416123-2024-02-04

 

 

India has better talent pool than other countries. Ya that is strange why someone would restrict no of chips manufactured from a facility. Japanese companies are still a good start. 

Edited March 28 by gattaca

[Lone Wolf]

Very disturbing numbers...  There needs to be some radical changes policy wise.  Most of the graduates coming through lack basic skills.  That demographic has sky rocketed these numbers. 

 

No wonder Telugu Gujju Haryanvi and Punjabis youth have resorted to illegal immigration to the West. 

 

Edited March 28 by Lone Wolf

[BlueBlood]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

4+ trillion is in USD Not in INR. Read some basics. Developed econoies, all of them has 2.1 percentage inflationary “TARGET”. None meet that.

u complain about Indian  rich getting richer, do u think if its not rich then who else can compete with other rich in rest of world who are getting richer by investing in various sphere. Neither average Joe nor gvmnts can compete. Thats why even Chinese have created a capitalist class.

 

The point still stands, currency devaluation of 30% in the same time period + inflation of 5.5% per year.

 

That is a devaluation of almost 8.5% per year compounded over the last 10 years of purchasing power of the average person. Unless their salaries are increasing at a higher amount, the average person is losing big.

 

If they are unemployed like the youth unemployment now, it's even worse.

 

The point isn't even about concentration of wealth - which is a serious issue.

 

It's generational wealth. In China, majority of the richest people are the "new money" young entrepreneurs. This gives the next generation motivation and drive to emulate them and become like this.

 

In India the greatest such example was Byjus and we saw what happened. Other than that, no young entrepreneur or innovator is looking at Adani, Ambani. Bajaj etc. and thinking "I can do this too with hard work and dedication". Most of these are leaving to other countries.

[BlueBlood]

5 hours ago, kepler37b said:

Once AI comes along full fledged, top 0.1% might end up owning 99% of the wealth.

 

And remaining 99.9% living on Doles.

 

 

 

This is exactly why stage is set in India where the younger generation has been brainwashed that if you are unemployed it's not the government's fault or the corporates fault... It's the fault of colonialists, other religions and everyone else but the root cause of the issue.

 

You will see it in this board too. People going out of their way to worship and support crony capitalists benefiting directly from state bank loans and government support.

 

This was never the case. It just started happening around 7 years ago or so just when all the news networks were fully bought out by corporations.

 

It's not a co-incidence. Just look at the fake patriotism that's thrown when any sort of criticism is laid against the government or corporations.

It's no longer about facts or ground realities anymore. This is the stage that's being set so that when wealth concentration becomes 0.1% after AI takes over many of the jobs... These corporations will jump ship to other countries and headquarter there while the masses are told to just shut up and be patriotic while crumbs are thrown at them.

 

The amount of generational wealth in India right now is causing a lot of people to just not work anymore - especially in highly developed areas as they are making good money from their assets.

 

With zero immigration and totally relying on population growth internally, there will be a crisis eventually where unless productivity goes up and high growth sectors are developed, the tax base will shrink making government keep raising consumption GST taxes and eventually just crumble.

 

No one will talk about this as they have been kicking this can down the road for the past 30 years. China already has a population growth crisis but is saved by the fact that their productivity is insanely high and middle class is comparable to US middle class in terms of purchasing power and wealth. They can sell to themselves and still do decently well.

Edited March 28 by BlueBlood

[mishra]

3 hours ago, gattaca said:

India has better talent pool than other countries. Ya that is strange why someone would restrict no of chips manufactured from a facility. Japanese companies are still a good start. 

The college I belonged, was selective, everyone was talented. Nowadays, I feel how ahaed of times these students were based on friends daroo party discussions on simple issues like  how a single database of All of India is needed and digitisation and bank account for evry house only way India can ensure Wealth creation and monitor health (Every aspect finacial , education, physical health, economic)  of every citizen. Not till Modi, we came with Adhar and bank accounts which ended up direct benefits of what we used to discuss before year 2000 in college.

 

How many are working for GoI from my batch of 200+? Just 4.

How many are abroad, Atleast 100+. Rest all are working for MNCs in India. Why? Talent pool is of no use, if economy hasnt got money or leadership to utilise the talent.  India needs more FDI which will basically mean Talent pool of India becomes Global talent pool to make Rich across the world even richer at the same time Indian poverty gets eradicated

Edited March 28 by mishra

[BlueBlood]

19 minutes ago, mishra said:

The college I belonged, was selective, everyone was talented. Nowadays, I feel how ahaed of times these students were based on friends daroo party discussions on simple issues like  how a single database of All of India is needed and digitisation and bank account for evry house only way India can ensure Wealth creation and monitor health (Every aspect finacial , education, physical health, economic)  of every citizen. Not till Modi, we came with Adhar and bank accounts which ended up direct benefits of what we used to discuss before year 2000 in college.

 

How many are working for GoI from my batch of 200+? Just 4.

How many are abroad, Atleast 100+. Rest all are working for MNCs in India. Why? Talent pool is of no use, if economy hasnt got money or leadership to utilise the talent.  India needs more FDI which will basically mean Talent pool of India becomes Global talent pool to make Rich across the world even richer at the same time Indian poverty gets eradicated

 

FDI is reluctant to come when Walmart, Amazon and others are quashed to protect cronies so their businesses are safe.

 

This is why China is down now. They tried for decades to protect their home grown companies to prevent the likes of Google, Apple and others to dominate there.

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/story/mukesh-ambani-vs-amazon-how-reliance-is-winning-game-of-thrones-in-future-retail-dispute-1924108-2022-03-11

 

Stuff like this is exactly the root cause of the issue.

 

Under fair capitalist and democratic legal system, something like this should never happen.

 

What this means is FDI slows down when they hear stories like this as capital which wants return on their investment doesn't want any risks.

 

Byjus was another serious issue. Investors lost a ton of money on that company.

 

They too will be reluctant to invest in a lot of startups in ed-tech sector.

 

Talent pool is a BS term when emigration is what the core root cause of the problem is. Even now, due to fake patriotism many youth wants to work for government sector with the IAS, IPS hype with limited seats rather than want to be entrepreneurs or innovators to create more jobs.

All these come back to bite in a long enough horizon. The government can even announce a $1 Trillion plan for next generation innovative projects but it means nothing when the talented people who could start such businesses are either in government or overseas.

 

All the oligarchs in India are happy to make their money from petroleum, telecom, ports, railway platforms, toll roads, real estate rents etc. They have no desire to take risks or innovate as there's zero incentive to do so.