Takeaways from this IPL

[Vijy]

paragh, harshit, mayank (prematurely injured), abhishek, and even benky iyer were good this season.

Edited May 27 by Vijy

[RajBan]

Don't sleep on Abhishek Porel. He will be a clutch player like Saha. With Jurel already making his mark, wicketkeeping for red ball and white ball will have 3-4 set of good people to select from.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, RajBan said:

Don't sleep on Abhishek Porel. He will be a clutch player like Saha. With Jurel already making his mark, wicketkeeping for red ball and white ball will have 3-4 set of good people to select from.

yes, porel had a good season. he is quite young, just like jurel.

 

and aryan juyal is another capable long-format batsman-keeper

[The Realist]

The resurrection of Piyush Pramod Chawla  

 

 

Edited May 28 by The Realist

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, The Realist said:

The resurrection of Piyush Pramod Chawla  

 

 

also mohit, sandeep, harshal, boobi, avesh, undercutter, etc

[Ultimate_Game]

On 5/27/2024 at 3:46 PM, RajBan said:

Don't sleep on Abhishek Porel. He will be a clutch player like Saha. With Jurel already making his mark, wicketkeeping for red ball and white ball will have 3-4 set of good people to select from.

 

When has Saha been a clutch player? He lost us the Adelaide test way back in 2014 and was worse than a tailender again in Adelaide in 2020 (the 36 AO test). If someone's ceiling is Saha level then better look elsewhere.

[RajBan]

7 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

When has Saha been a clutch player? He lost us the Adelaide test way back in 2014 and was worse than a tailender again in Adelaide in 2020 (the 36 AO test). If someone's ceiling is Saha level then better look elsewhere.

He has been the best wicketkeeper hands down in Indian jersey since Kirmani.

 

SENA has never been his strength but it has not been for many of our mainstream batsmen either. If you are taking 36 AO as an example and putting that on Saha while everybody lais eggs then you need to relook at your through process. Remember he has a century in IPL final as well but then we can't basw our argument on highs and lows. His  records in India has been more than decent even though he is not necessarily the typically wicketkeeper batsman but rather a world class keeper who also can bat.

 

Saha has been one of the pillars of Indian Test cricket in his own way. He only got delayed chance because Dhoni was the Test team captain even though Dhoni as captain never prioritised the longer version.

 

 

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

When has Saha been a clutch player? He lost us the Adelaide test way back in 2014 and was worse than a tailender again in Adelaide in 2020 (the 36 AO test). If someone's ceiling is Saha level then better look elsewhere.

he had several gritty knocks in india and also in WI. and his keeping was almost always world class

[Ultimate_Game]

14 hours ago, Vijy said:

he had several gritty knocks in india and also in WI. and his keeping was almost always world class

 

In India, especially Tests, everyone's clutch. We've been winning in India since ages bar an exception every decade or so. As for WI, don't really care as they're in the same boat as B'desh and SL. I would expect India A team to manhandle WI so don't care about performances against WI. It' SENA that the real tests await and that's where he has failed big time.

[Ultimate_Game]

15 hours ago, RajBan said:

He has been the best wicketkeeper hands down in Indian jersey since Kirmani.

 

SENA has never been his strength but it has not been for many of our mainstream batsmen either. If you are taking 36 AO as an example and putting that on Saha while everybody lais eggs then you need to relook at your through process. Remember he has a century in IPL final as well but then we can't basw our argument on highs and lows. His  records in India has been more than decent even though he is not necessarily the typically wicketkeeper batsman but rather a world class keeper who also can bat.

 

Saha has been one of the pillars of Indian Test cricket in his own way. He only got delayed chance because Dhoni was the Test team captain even though Dhoni as captain never prioritised the longer version.

 

 

 

If not SENA, what's the point of a Test player? We can beat anyone in India, and have been doing so since ages. We need players who show up in SENA a la Pant, and hopefully like Jurel. He hasn't been any pillar, and please don't devalue the word. He has been a throwaway to the dark ages when we had keepers like More, Pandit, Mongia etc. In fact even Mongia's 152 against Aussies is back in 90s was a better knock than anything Saha has ever player, and Mongia wasn't a "pillar" either.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If not SENA, what's the point of a Test player? We can beat anyone in India, and have been doing so since ages. We need players who show up in SENA a la Pant, and hopefully like Jurel. He hasn't been any pillar, and please don't devalue the word. He has been a throwaway to the dark ages when we had keepers like More, Pandit, Mongia etc. In fact even Mongia's 152 against Aussies is back in 90s was a better knock than anything Saha has ever player, and Mongia wasn't a "pillar" either.

saha was much better than mongia as a keeper (particularly vs pace), and also a better bat than mongia by a comfortable margin

[Ultimate_Game]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

saha was much better than mongia as a keeper (particularly vs pace), and also a better bat than mongia by a comfortable margin

Disagree. Mongia was a pretty decent keeper, and was also good enough to open the innings in Tests as a makeshift opener. Mongia has one match/series defining innings against Aus, while Saha could barely do anything against decent sides.

[Vijy]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:05 PM, Ultimate_Game said:

Disagree. Mongia was a pretty decent keeper, and was also good enough to open the innings in Tests as a makeshift opener. Mongia has one match/series defining innings against Aus, while Saha could barely do anything against decent sides.

saha was much better as a keeper. mongia did have that one fluke innings as opener, but did zilch with the bat otherwise. saha had lots of useful knocks against many teams: 117 vs Aus in 2017 (the toughest test series played by india at home in the last 10 years), twin 50s vs NZ on a tough pitch, even his 100 in WI came when we were likely to loose (he and ashwin saved us the blushes)

 

look at mongia's overseas record: it's dismal. never played against Aus in Aus, and yet had 18.57 outside india. saha has 27.28 outside india. one crucial difference, for instance, was vs spin.

Edited June 1 by Vijy

[Lord]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:48 AM, Vijy said:

he had several gritty knocks in india and also in WI. and his keeping was almost always world class

 

Those are two of the easiest venues for Indian bats. Saha belongs to the 90s

[Gollum]

2016 Eden vs NZ was polar opposite of a typical Indian pitch. Was a greentop where Bhuvi, Boult, Henry, Shami were unplayable. Many past Indian teams would have lost that test against NZ, Saha was MOTM.

 

2016 WI was still a decent team, Saha saved us from tricky situations. 

 

Then 2017 BGT.

 

And his keeping skills, best of the best. 

 

Pant is a different beast but in mid 2010s Saha deserved his selection and was an integral part of the 5 consecutive ICC mace wins. 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Those are two of the easiest venues for Indian bats. Saha belongs to the 90s

WI pitches have plenty of assistance for bowlers, and India had enough challenging pitches for most of Saha's career. 

[RajBan]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:00 PM, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If not SENA, what's the point of a Test player? We can beat anyone in India, and have been doing so since ages. We need players who show up in SENA a la Pant, and hopefully like Jurel. He hasn't been any pillar, and please don't devalue the word. He has been a throwaway to the dark ages when we had keepers like More, Pandit, Mongia etc. In fact even Mongia's 152 against Aussies is back in 90s was a better knock than anything Saha has ever player, and Mongia wasn't a "pillar" either.

Again you are judging a keeper on their batting contributions. Pant should have played those test matches purely as a batsman as he was head and shoulders above KL Rahul and Rahane. It was cleverly projected as a competition between keepers, Pant and Saha just to protect the interests of few non performing seniors. Both of them should have played together with Saha qualified during those years purely on keeping alone given how consistent he has been. 

 

And there is no comparison between Mongia and Saha. Saha has 10 times more heart than Mongia who played on merit and not because he was in cahoots with captain to fix matches fixing in the first place.

 

It's a real shame that you disregard contributions of proper player like Saha and compare them with despicable characters as Mongia.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, RajBan said:

Again you are judging a keeper on their batting contributions. Pant should have played those test matches purely as a batsman as he was head and shoulders above KL Rahul and Rahane. It was cleverly projected as a competition between keepers, Pant and Saha just to protect the interests of few non performing seniors. Both of them should have played together with Saha qualified during those years purely on keeping alone given how consistent he has been. 

 

And there is no comparison between Mongia and Saha. Saha has 10 times more heart than Mongia who played on merit and not because he was in cahoots with captain to fix matches fixing in the first place.

 

It's a real shame that you disregard contributions of proper player like Saha and compare them with despicable characters as Mongia.

 

I'm sorry the days of wicket keeper being a specialist keeper and not contributing with the bat are long gone. Almost all teams will pick a wkt keeper who's a decent bat. That's doubly true for India who doesn't have bowlers who can't even hold the bat. We don't need a wkt keeper who can only score in India or against poor teams. We need someone who actually shows up in SENA a la Pant, or has potential to do so like Jurel. Ultimately it's the player's impact which makes a difference. What Pant has done in Tests, especially in Aus, is leaps and bound what Saha even came close to.

[RajBan]

5 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I'm sorry the days of wicket keeper being a specialist keeper and not contributing with the bat are long gone. Almost all teams will pick a wkt keeper who's a decent bat. That's doubly true for India who doesn't have bowlers who can't even hold the bat. We don't need a wkt keeper who can only score in India or against poor teams. We need someone who actually shows up in SENA a la Pant, or has potential to do so like Jurel. Ultimately it's the player's impact which makes a difference. What Pant has done in Tests, especially in Aus, is leaps and bound what Saha even came close to.

What Pant has done in terms of batsmanahip in SENA is leaps and bounds ahead of atleast two of our mainstream batsmen in the TEST team if not more. I am not questioning why Pant was played, he played on his own merit to the extent that even when his keeping was not upto the mark he was able to compensate purely as a batter by providing X factor that nobody offered. Pant and Saha both were good enough to play together in the same 11 at the time when others were not performing what they were meant to do given the world class output from either of them.

 

The definition of keeper batsman is all good and dandy till the time they are performing equally in both disciplines(Sanga or Gilchrist). With Pant first and then Jurel next who by the way is a much better keeper than Pant and may match Saha in due course of time, team has got that weapon. At that point of time merit wins and very rightly Saha has been  phased out. But the situation was very different 4-5 years back when most keepers were absolutely mugs , and it was right to play Saha(instead of force fitting NPA such as Bharat) who did his job gracefully.

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Those are two of the easiest venues for Indian bats. Saha belongs to the 90s

explain why Mongia did zilch in India then, barring one fluke (though great) knock