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Pant is a problem in T20

deepdynamo

By deepdynamo
in Cricket Talk

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Lord Grand Master

Lord

Posted
Posted
Just now, bowl_out said:

Franchisees look for what is best for them, not necessarily what is good for the player.

I don't think it is always the captain's call either, particularly for a coach-heavy team like RR.

Keeping-wise, yes, Pant is way better. But, for T20s, I'd rather take an average keeper, good bat than a great keeper, average bat.

 

 

Surely Sanju can decided his own batting order as captain. 

 

Keeping matters more even in T20. Pant was very good behind the stumps in WT20. We'd probably have lost v Pak if Samson kept.

VT87 Mentor

VT87

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Which final? And who was boasting about scoring 150 in a final?

He was  in some channel show where this jhant@@ boasted if I was in 19 nov final would have scored 150 or 0 I must say he was damn right about his second prediction 

Edited by VT87
Ultimate_Game Grand Master

Ultimate_Game

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, VT87 said:

He was  in some channel show where this jhant@@ boasted if I was in 19 nov final would have scored 150 or 0 I must say he was damn right about his second prediction 

 

In that case we can all make the same prediction... pick me to play for the Indian team. Either I'll score below 10 or will score 100+ :laugh:

Sandz Grand Master

Sandz

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

In that case we can all make the same prediction... pick me to play for the Indian team. Either I'll score below 10 or will score 100+ :laugh:

Or pick me in archery and I will score 4s and 6s.

Ultimate_Game Grand Master

Ultimate_Game

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, New guy said:

He will still keep playing, this management believes in all format players for no reason (perhaps easier to coach less players?) and never learns from its mistake. 

 

Don't understand this fascination with multi-format players. Currently there're only 2 multi-format players I can see. First one is Bumrah and the second one is Jaiswal. They're trying to force Gill into all the formats as they see him as future all-format captain but they don't need to.

 

Abhishek deserves to open in T20s ahead of Gill, and Jaiswal deserves to open in ODIs with Gill at 3. We're keeping these two out just for the sake of playing "multi-format" players and seniors.

tapandrun Grand Master

tapandrun

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Don't understand this fascination with multi-format players. Currently there're only 2 multi-format players I can see. First one is Bumrah and the second one is Jaiswal. They're trying to force Gill into all the formats as they see him as future all-format captain but they don't need to.

 

Abhishek deserves to open in T20s ahead of Gill, and Jaiswal deserves to open in ODIs with Gill at 3. We're keeping these two out just for the sake of playing "multi-format" players and seniors.

 

Multi-format players a larger picture- As been seen wth other teams they are now finding hard to compete in Test formats because no-one wants to play more than 2 formats (T20i and ODIs), player are opting out of the tests. WI did it long back, now Pak.

 

Even with eng there are many player who are opting T20 leagues as soon as they realize there is little chance of making to Intnl teams.

 

No-one want to solely play Test as once they are branded test players they do find it hard to get any t20 leagues contract, same reason player are not announcing retirements these days and taking last 2/3 years of their career playing league cricket as much as possible and once they retire they quickly transition into coach or some officials for those teams. NZ player seems to be following this clearly. 

 

For Ind prospective till they are not open to play in other leagues- BCCI wants to promote multi format player as they want the parity between the players.

Pure test players feels like they are missing on IPL contracts as they are branded as test players, A 3 format player has bigger monetary value for BCCI and sponsors.

A test player can not be an all time great, t20 player will never be all time great so to be consider an all time great player need to play at-least 2 formats-Test ans Odis and some1 able to make it to odis they will make it to T20s. With bcci its monetary, sponsors and the face of ind cricket.

 

Previously they tried to do it with KL and Pant try making them face of Ind cricket, both failed in some ways. Now its Gill.

Gill is made the captain even when a top IPL team had its worse season under him, he does not look like a captain. his innings has had drawn criticism of being selfish, though all are small sample size but nothing says he has a captain in him.

 

 

Pant has played 70-80 T20i matches how many more does he need, let say in coming 5/6 matches he score a 20 ball 50 will it make him suited for t20s ??

He has a big fan base not just amongst the audiences but in BCCI and Ind cricketing circles. Same for KL Rahul.

 

The problem is he does not have shots for a t20 batter, the shots he is trying to play these days are lap behind the square leg and then a wild slog in the offside and hope it connects and lands where there are no fielders.

 

His test runs in Aus were also like that he played in the air and the ball landed in safe places, this works in test as the field is not spread-out as it is in Odis and T20s.

If its working in test let him play test 70-80 T20Is are enough to judge a player. With him at no.4 Ind will always score below par score.  

 

All the big teams are moving away from dedicated anchor role player, if team in such a condition where they need to anchor then the batter should be able to do that and score as well taking minimum risks, its not about anchoring -down but to mininize risk yet keep scoring.

 

Seeing last couple of series looks like Gill who is VC and future captain has already assigned himself anchor role batter. and then and Pant who lacks the ability to score quick runs in white-ball.

 

Pant may play some heroic innings when chips are down like against Pak with 3/4 drop catches, but on constant basis he will find it hard to score at good rate in T20s.

At no.4 teams needs batter who will not drop the tempo but quickly start-in and then increase the tempo rapidly towards the end.

His style of play will ask batter on other end to take more risk and do the hitting that Pant was suppose to do. Ex- Sky who will now bat at 3 who already plays high risk cricket but with Pant sky would need to play at much higher risk , doing hitting for himself and Pant.

 

These are the seeds of their approach in IPL cricket- Ind star batter plays for personal scores and do not start hitting till they reach to the personal scores and the hitting part is left with OS player, who are suppose to hit from ball 1.

Sky plays T20 style of cricket in IPL and hence he is able to do it in intnl cricket too. Over the years only Tripathi and Sky have been playing that kind of game and then DK for couple of years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
Real McCoy Veteran

Real McCoy

Posted
Posted

He is quite predictable in a different way. I have seen him lift balls over short fine leg for a 4 and immediately tries to switch hit the next ball over third man. He has done this quite a bit. He likes the fame so he plays all the tricky shots like tendulkar in his early days. He has to grow up and play the percentages that are relevant to t20 cricket. right now, he hasn't shaken the world in a storm as he has in tests

Ultimate_Game Grand Master

Ultimate_Game

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

Multi-format players a larger picture- As been seen wth other teams they are now finding hard to compete in Test formats because no-one wants to play more than 2 formats (T20i and ODIs), player are opting out of the tests. WI did it long back, now Pak.

 

Even with eng there are many player who are opting T20 leagues as soon as they realize there is little chance of making to Intnl teams.

 

No-one want to solely play Test as once they are branded test players they do find it hard to get any t20 leagues contract, same reason player are not announcing retirements these days and taking last 2/3 years of their career playing league cricket as much as possible and once they retire they quickly transition into coach or some officials for those teams. NZ player seems to be following this clearly. 

 

For Ind prospective till they are not open to play in other leagues- BCCI wants to promote multi format player as they want the parity between the players.

Pure test players feels like they are missing on IPL contracts as they are branded as test players, A 3 format player has bigger monetary value for BCCI and sponsors.

A test player can not be an all time great, t20 player will never be all time great so to be consider an all time great player need to play at-least 2 formats-Test ans Odis and some1 able to make it to odis they will make it to T20s. With bcci its monetary, sponsors and the face of ind cricket.

 

Previously they tried to do it with KL and Pant try making them face of Ind cricket, both failed in some ways. Now its Gill.

Gill is made the captain even when a top IPL team had its worse season under him, he does not look like a captain. his innings has had drawn criticism of being selfish, though all are small sample size but nothing says he has a captain in him.

 

 

Pant has played 70-80 T20i matches how many more does he need, let say in coming 5/6 matches he score a 20 ball 50 will it make him suited for t20s ??

He has a big fan base not just amongst the audiences but in BCCI and Ind cricketing circles. Same for KL Rahul.

 

The problem is he does not have shots for a t20 batter, the shots he is trying to play these days are lap behind the square leg and then a wild slog in the offside and hope it connects and lands where there are no fielders.

 

His test runs in Aus were also like that he played in the air and the ball landed in safe places, this works in test as the field is not spread-out as it is in Odis and T20s.

If its working in test let him play test 70-80 T20Is are enough to judge a player. With him at no.4 Ind will always score below par score.  

 

All the big teams are moving away from dedicated anchor role player, if team in such a condition where they need to anchor then the batter should be able to do that and score as well taking minimum risks, its not about anchoring -down but to mininize risk yet keep scoring.

 

Seeing last couple of series looks like Gill who is VC and future captain has already assigned himself anchor role batter. and then and Pant who lacks the ability to score quick runs in white-ball.

 

Pant may play some heroic innings when chips are down like against Pak with 3/4 drop catches, but on constant basis he will find it hard to score at good rate in T20s.

At no.4 teams needs batter who will not drop the tempo but quickly start-in and then increase the tempo rapidly towards the end.

His style of play will ask batter on other end to take more risk and do the hitting that Pant was suppose to do. Ex- Sky who will now bat at 3 who already plays high risk cricket but with Pant sky would need to play at much higher risk , doing hitting for himself and Pant.

 

These are the seeds of their approach in IPL cricket- Ind star batter plays for personal scores and do not start hitting till they reach to the personal scores and the hitting part is left with OS player, who are suppose to hit from ball 1.

Sky plays T20 style of cricket in IPL and hence he is able to do it in intnl cricket too. Over the years only Tripathi and Sky have been playing that kind of game and then DK for couple of years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just 2 points...

 

1. India doesn't need to follow other teams and doesn't have similar challenges. India can afford to have teams specific to a format and it's not as if players don't get paid enough.

 

2. There's no reason for BCCI to find "face of cricket". It makes sense for other sports, i.e., make Neeraj Chopra as the face of athletics. But cricket is the most popular sport in the country and nearly all the Indian cricketers are house-hold names. Why try to make anyone face of cricket? Be it Pant, KL, Gill etc. what's the need? It's not as if people will stop following cricket as they don't know of a player associated with cricket. In fact make face of cricket per format - Abhishek and Pandya for T20s, Jaiswal and Gill for ODIs and Tests, Pant for Tests, and Bumrah across formats. Why one across formats? :dontknow:

tapandrun Grand Master

tapandrun

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Just 2 points...

 

1. India doesn't need to follow other teams and doesn't have similar challenges. India can afford to have teams specific to a format and it's not as if players don't get paid enough.

 

2. There's no reason for BCCI to find "face of cricket". It makes sense for other sports, i.e., make Neeraj Chopra as the face of athletics. But cricket is the most popular sport in the country and nearly all the Indian cricketers are house-hold names. Why try to make anyone face of cricket? Be it Pant, KL, Gill etc. what's the need? It's not as if people will stop following cricket as they don't know of a player associated with cricket. In fact make face of cricket per format - Abhishek and Pandya for T20s, Jaiswal and Gill for ODIs and Tests, Pant for Tests, and Bumrah across formats. Why one across formats? :dontknow:

Not trying to make a case for Multi-format player be it Pant/Gill/Bhumrah, just trying to tell probable reasons for BCCI of having multi-format players.

 

Completely agree with BCCI have the resources to field three different sides in 3 different formats. But are the player or up-coming player ready for being just test player and missing out on IPL and other T20i leagues ??

Additionally these leagues provides a faster way to make it to the Ind side and even when players are in 30s can make a debut in T20is, is it possible in test ??

People will try to take the path of least resistance. And playing for IPL franchises boast their chances to play for Ind intnl due to well know reasons.

 

Face of cricket is more for the sponsorship and monetary purposes, it happens in every sport- NBA, Football, Athletics.

The problem is there are 3 different formats and now BCCI is failing to understand that T20s are completely different game, you need specialized t20 players to be dominant force.

Player who are multi-skilled, player who can hit the ball further, players who are match winner on their own, player who can leave a positive impact with their time on the ground say 4 overs.

 

As posted before as well there are 2 directions of how cricket been played and administered now:

 

1- Eng/ Aus way -- Play all 3 format in say way so adopt t20 style of batting with one and max two player who play anchor in Tests, Teams are dumping the idea of dedicated T20I accumulators, Intnl batters should be able to minimize risk and still able to score freely if conditions demands, no one dedicated to play that role of assigned  accumulators-- this is creative -ive impact on the game and it adds on as soon as they add 1-2 more players who have some kind of -ive impact.

 

2-WI/ and Pak way - Dump test , concentrate on T20s which is money making for both cricketers and board and may be just be afloat in Odis. 

 

BCCI has resources to do it and create strong teams in 3 different format, T20 is kind of most neglected format over the years for Ind cricket and mostly restricted to IPL.

If player is good for Odis they were considered good for T20is - Dhoni played for number of years as no.5/6/7 with SR below 130, which is kind of finisher's position.

Pant player nearly 80 games with SR below 130 playing mostly at 4. That's why Ind never had a good T20i side, they donot have specialist t20 player. Ind still lacks a finisher , a power hitter. Till Sky all were accumulators and would start hitting only once they reached certain milestone.  

 

The kind of backslash Pandya gets when he gets injured and try considering only t20s going forward, he is no kallis or Imran Khan. if his demeanor of super-star is taken out he is good at what he is doing. He is a no.5 batter who can bowl some overs, now that his injuries does not permit him playing test then what can he do will he risk all his career to play test ???-- Its a cricketing culture where players want to play as long as possible not the best they can play.

 

TM and selectors should look beyond Kishan/Sanju/Pant in t20is, they are not t20i material/quality compare to other wk-batters. Eng has Salt, Butler, Johny etc, SA -QDK, Klasen, NZ- Phillips, Conway, Seifert. Aus lacks a bit with Carey, wade and Inglis, Inglis has done ok in other t20 leagues and probably be aus 1st choice in t20s going forward.

 

 

This may not go well but 1st t20i vs SL ind was 15-20 runs short because how pant played his 1st 23 balls, and team did trust him at #3/4 with nearly 10 runs per over in 2nd t20i. So the myth that he plays well when lesser balls remains is also busted, his SR at #5 is 123 and at #6 his SR is 140 but he played only 3 matches and 17 runs is his hs 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Lord said:

Missing his slow innings today? :phehe:

Pant's knock should be evaluated independently. He has one of the largest samples in t20. Among the batsmen he has played 6th highest number of T20 matches for India behind Rohit/Kohli/Dhoni/Pandya/Raina.  Has played more T20 matches than Kela. Dhawan.  High time he shows some utility. Least he can do is producing some cameos like 10 ball 20, 15 ball 30. He ends up wasting a lot of deliveries and perishes before acceleration.

Suhaan Grand Master

Suhaan

Posted
Posted

Played yet another pathetic T20 innings in yesterday started Delhi T20 league that too against domestic spinners

35 off 32

He should completely shun the thought of playing white ball cricket and go back to his personal coach and iron out his deficiency and please leave out his consolidating disorder

vidhi Newbie

vidhi

Posted
Posted

Sometimes Pant struggles in T20 Match but it does not mean that Pant is not fit for Every T20 Cricket Match. We understand that every player has their off days and may struggle in certain types of matches, but our platform focuses on showcasing the overall talent and potential of a player

Jaydev_Unadkat Experienced

Jaydev_Unadkat

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Played yet another pathetic T20 innings in yesterday started Delhi T20 league that too against domestic spinners

35 off 32

He should completely shun the thought of playing white ball cricket and go back to his personal coach and iron out his deficiency and please leave out his consolidating disorder

Been saying it since day 1

Absolute clown of a loi cricketer backed other clowns of this forum

very good test player. Undroppable

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