US 2024 Elections

[jigjig]

Just now, ravishingravi said:

 

I totally agree but intangibles work both way and depend on what deal you are getting.

 

I know because I have done that deal with all these comsiderations. Put other things in the mix besides money. Proximity to work place, proximity to family, job / hobby opportunities, work life balance, social life vs isolation. 

 

In my experience, people take too much generic view in their evaluation. It has to be individual's story, his choices and specific opportunities that he is getting. 

Agree. Mostly about individual choices and existing financial status.

 

Starting from scratch, I believe US works out cheaper for roti, kapda and especially makaan. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

33 minutes ago, jigjig said:

Come and stay buddy. Buy a house in Mumbai or Gurgaon. 

 

Then let's also have a maths quiz. You have no chance

did exactly that in 2022. which is why i said what i said. 

If you wanna compare Mumbai or Gurgaon to entire california, then yes, entire california is mucho more expensive to live in. Because services are so much more expensive in murrica along with cost of food in general. 

 

[ravishingravi]

14 minutes ago, jigjig said:

Agree. Mostly about individual choices and existing financial status.

 

Starting from scratch, I believe US works out cheaper for roti, kapda and especially makaan. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe for a fresher, yes. But then one also has to consider stream, his caliber and amount of student loan he has on him. 

 

For me, he has to earn atleast 4-5 times more in NY or California to save the same amount of money as in any urban City in India. But compared to 5-10 years back, I see complete change in mindset. 20 years back there were no trade offs practically. Now there are clear trade offs and balance is tilting. 

 

One thing is for sure. Blanket vanilla decision of the past doesn't hold true anymore. That's why atleast I see many Indians constantly pondering about their options. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

That california gdp is worth ****. Things are so expensive that in ppp terms the typical texan is much richer.

 

50k in houston is worth more than 150k in most cities in CA. I laugh when people living in bay area boast of 200k salaries. 

 

Secondly california and new york disproportionately benefit from companies being headquartered there. For example, the irish gdp is abnormally high due to being a tax haven to companies in the EU.

 

Not a wise idea to compare a sub unit to a country

The kind of  house i own here would cost me a fortune in India.

[ravishingravi]

Funny as hell. Hope he gets elected just 4 more years of entertainment 

 

 

[diga]

Reading that some states dont require any ID to vote... what a joke?

 

Can someone vote twice?

[ravishingravi]

@randomGuy Markit kya bolta hai. Will FII pull in money if Trump wins ?

[kepler37b]

11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Dude California is enough for USA. Their  GDP is 3.3 Trillion which is significantly higher than vast majority of the country. As a comparison INdia's GDP is 3.95 trillion in 2022. 

This is like saying independent south india will be like Singapore. California does draw it's advantages being in the Union.

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

@randomGuy Markit kya bolta hai. Will FII pull in money if Trump wins ?

Trump jeeta to expensive market ko ultra expensive bana denge for some time..waise these days (from past 2-3 yrs), domestic money has more significance. FII is less significant. FII holding has been going down.

 

[kepler37b]

16 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Art and science didn't exist before US. Okay. 

It will be a temporary blip. For atleast a century. Imagine the state of western Europe when rome collapsed.

 

I am bearish on india, unless hindutva increases 10x and shuts up regional/caste kangers.

 

I am not so sure about China. The picture is much more rosier than reality.

 

 

[kepler37b]

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

No, it wont. Just like end of UK didnt signal end of art and science and net loss because USA replaced it, so too, USA will be replaced by India and China.

 

It will be a temporary and prolonged blip. 

[kepler37b]

8 hours ago, jigjig said:

One pays 4 - 6 months of salary in India for 0 returns..they call it tax here 

India is a paradox.

 

If you plan to live like a slum dweller, it is extremely cheap.

 

The middle class life becomes pretty expensive, as the govt taxes the crap out of this tiny minority to fund the unproductive farmers/masses/Baboo(ons)

[G_B_]

Re things in India being expensive.

 

It misses the point. I am comparing Houston and California cities within the USA. That is, within one political sub unit.  The internal purchase parity of the state of Texas is much higher than California. Just as the internal purchase parity of Indore will be much higher than Mumbai or Delhi. Within India Chandigrah , Delhi , Karnataka , Maharashtra GDP is boosted by companies being headquartered in cities within the state but conducting business all over India. This boost is made much worse in the case of California given you have the tech giants headquartered there (even if not for tax purposes) who do business globally. The California GDP is artificially boosted by upto 30% due to this phenomenon.

 

The Bank of Japan has been known to supress its currency (thereby reducing the GDP) which has been also followed by China. The true GDP if they dont control their currencies in $ terms will be much higher. China would be a $24 trillion economy if they lift their peg to the USD.

[kepler37b]

8 hours ago, jigjig said:

Air quality, horrible roads , traffic jams, mentally stress, dealing with govt babus. Every simple transaction here can suck your blood out and have long term impact on your health.  This is not a cash only calculation. The intangibles will have a monetary impact too.

Agreed.

 

I live in hyd and can see these daily stressors. For starters, I request folks to build an independent house in a tier 2 town.

 

The selfishness, corruption, laziness and skill deficiency of our populace are on full display. The green carded folks can simply throw dollars and ride over the cracks of our system. For humble persons earning in rupees it has become a nightmare.

 

My building contractor and the local Babu colluded and misguided me into paying big bribes  that are not really required.

[G_B_]

Intangibles work both ways. In India you are close to your relatives etc. I see a new phenomenon of elderly parents passing away alone as kids are overseas. The kids are destroyed with guilt. Grandchildren who barely know their grandparents. 

 

The west you dont have cleaning/cooking maid etc. Do everything on your own. The trade off as many say is high pollution, bad physical infra (digital infra is pretty good from what I can see) more stress in the job. 

 

 

 

I am not based in India btw. 

[ravishingravi]

25 minutes ago, kepler37b said:

It will be a temporary blip. For atleast a century. Imagine the state of western Europe when rome collapsed.

 

I am bearish on india, unless hindutva increases 10x and shuts up regional/caste kangers.

 

I am not so sure about China. The picture is much more rosier than reality.

 

 

 

There would be no blip. America is in decadence. We are suffering from Ray Dalio called bias towards history. In our life time, US was the pole position for global order and pop culture. But 100 years back that was not the case. 

 

Either ways, I dont want them to collapse. But they have to get levelled. 

[G_B_]

I am curious to see what happens if electric adoption becomes full scale in the coming decades. If you look at exports, oil and natural gas are number 1 tangible exports of the USA. This industry also gives support to auxillary chemical industries etc This is based on the USA natural resources.  But most big countries have tangible renewable resources. India has solar potential which can power the whole planet. But there are huge barriers to implementation (which are reducing by the year). The other plank of American strength is built on the adpoption of the dollar for trade (finance) and software/electronic design. 

 

https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/industry-trends/biggest-exporting-industries/

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

53 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

The west you dont have cleaning/cooking maid etc. Do everything on your own.

To me, this is a point in favor of life in the US (at least where I live).

 

I was always extremely uncomfortable in India telling other people to do stuff that I could do myself - like washing clothes and dishes. Growing up, my father trained me to wash my own clothes on the wash-stone and iron them myself. Having the ability and resources to cook, clean and do yard-work by myself as long as I am physically able to do so is a huge plus.

 

Of course, I am not allowed to do electrical or plumbing work because I would probably cause a fire or flood in the house :-).

[G_B_]

29 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

To me, this is a point in favor of life in the US (at least where I live).

 

I was always extremely uncomfortable in India telling other people to do stuff that I could do myself - like washing clothes and dishes. Growing up, my father trained me to wash my own clothes on the wash-stone and iron them myself. Having the ability and resources to cook, clean and do yard-work by myself as long as I am physically able to do so is a huge plus.

 

Of course, I am not allowed to do electrical or plumbing work because I would probably cause a fire or flood in the house :-).

 

 

I tend to agree with that. The western approach forces life skills. Living alone during university trained me with a lot of life skills. Cooking and cleaning was 100% in that skill set. My cooking is functional but it ensures I am self sufficient for nutrition. I also put in 3 hours a week on the garden/house keeping it clean. So roughly 10-20 hours outside work, cooking -cleaning groceries etc my wife and I put in. If we were to call help on a regular basis etc it would cost us GBP 10k-15k a year for cooking and cleaning.

 

Issue however, is the white collar workforce is globally competitive. I would rather hire an Indian who can work 10 hours more in a week than a western person. This Indian person can do so because they are not bogged down by household chores (or even childcare).  Its not just us, my peers in Shanghai even log in for a 10pm meeting (their time). Most tell me that childcare is a grandparents responsibility. This is why they can continue with an early 20s work ethic at 35+.

 

Its an interesting tidbit. When we were house hunting in London, most Indian homes were in terrible shape in terms of decor and how clean the house was. These were upper middle class professionals owning the homes. You compare that to the middle middle class or upper middle class in Mumbai whose homes were smaller but spotless (despite Mumbai generating more dust), it was a real eye opener.  The white homes were clean but it was like the kitchen was not in use. Indians abroad tend to save money on eating out and focus on cooking. White people eat out more or are ok with fixed food like sandwiches and use their time for cleaning.

[kepler37b]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

There would be no blip. America is in decadence. We are suffering from Ray Dalio called bias towards history. In our life time, US was the pole position for global order and pop culture. But 100 years back that was not the case. 

 

Either ways, I dont want them to collapse. But they have to get levelled. 

Civilizations are cyclical. West will fall one day. But it is atleast a century away.

Edited October 31, 2024 by kepler37b