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We've managed to become a team that'll live forever in memory of people: Ben Stokes


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3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who said Dev was third best all rounder of his generation.

 

Dev was best allrounder in odis and second best allrounder behind Botham that too in his prime.

 

Imran and Hadlee were bowlers who could bat.

Yeah a guy averaging 38 in test cricket was only a bowler.

 

Imran Khan was the best all rounder of that generation, followed by Botham and Dev, Hadlee was a bowler who could bat not Imran.

 

Kapil Dev and Botham had more batting talent than Imran which is evident by Botham having 12 centuries, Kapil was way more inconsistent than Khan and that’s why he averaged 6 less than him.

I could still concede that Dev was a marginally better batsman but saying that a player averaging 38 is not even a batsman is plain wrong.

Also as a bowler there was no comparison between these three, Imran was miles ahead.

 

Yes, Kapil was the best ODI allrounder though, explosive batsman and as good an Odi bowler as any, also exceptional fielder for that era.

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17 hours ago, Gollum said:

Without Anderson and Broad, expect coming decade to be painful for English test fans. We should back ourselves to win there next year, their bowling is meme level now. And how long can Root carry their batting lineup?

Can WI boys surprise them too ... They have done well in Eng in last 2 tours against stronger bowling attacks.

Shamar Joseph and Alzaari will test bazballers and Motie the spinner is quality as well.

Some exciting young batters in WI line up as well.

Hodge and young Athanaze with McKenzie.

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18 hours ago, Gollum said:

Without Anderson and Broad, expect coming decade to be painful for English test fans. We should back ourselves to win there next year, their bowling is meme level now. And how long can Root carry their batting lineup?

Hold on ur horses yes Barbie and cloudie are big loss,but woods possibily archer, Robinson and woakes they are still decent attack in their conditions not to forget barring woods rest can bat 

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20 hours ago, Gollum said:

Stokes is the worst ever batsman to step foot in the SC. Doesn't average even 25 in any of the 4 Asian countries, but hyped as the reincarnation of Sobers by the Pom media and some sepoys. 


I still prefer Flintoff - as goony limey he was- to this joker. Sure, stokes makes big scores more often than Flinty- but its not like we are comparing a Lara to Robin Singh when it comes to batting, Flinty was less consistent than Stokes but still could absolutely pummel an attack on his day. But even old man Flinty was a much, much MUCH better bowler than this joker. 


Best anglo allrounders i've seen are :Botham ( who is 3rd/4th in the 4 great allrounders list to me), then Flintoff, then Moeen and THEN Stokes. 

Best anglo batsmen i've seen are : 1. Fake Anglo ( Peterson) <daylight>2. Root  <more daylight> 3. Gower, 4. Gooch  5. Thorpe   .... #30+: Stokes. 

 

Thing with the Anglos is, they were absolute shyte through the late 80s through to the early-mid 2000s (The Rise of English batting, with peterson and some doughty batters). Their m/o was : 'get pummelled by Australia & West Indies pretty much everywhere, hang on for dear life vs Pakistan at home, get crushed by Pakistani at Pakiland, win with difficulty vs India at home, get crushed by India in India and 'win at home, lose at their home' to New Zealand. This was the Anglo status quo. And they have thirsted for a great batter/allrounder since pretty much beefy got lazy. He at one point i think was on pace to score like 25 hundreds and take 450+ wickets and the anglos felt like they finally had an answer to Sobers and then it all went to shyte and has been all shyte since then.

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14 hours ago, Adamant said:

Yeah a guy averaging 38 in test cricket was only a bowler.

 

Imran Khan was the best all rounder of that generation, followed by Botham and Dev, Hadlee was a bowler who could bat not Imran.

 

Kapil Dev and Botham had more batting talent than Imran which is evident by Botham having 12 centuries, Kapil was way more inconsistent than Khan and that’s why he averaged 6 less than him.

I could still concede that Dev was a marginally better batsman but saying that a player averaging 38 is not even a batsman is plain wrong.

Also as a bowler there was no comparison between these three, Imran was miles ahead.

 

Yes, Kapil was the best ODI allrounder though, explosive batsman and as good an Odi bowler as any, also exceptional fielder for that era.

 

Dev before Botham to me. For one simple reason : Dev showed up, even consistently after his prime, with bat and ball, vs the best damn team of his time and one of *the* HoF generational teams of cricket : West Indies. Botham on the other hand, showed himself to be a total minnows bully when faced with the West Indies quartet and totally **** the bed. 

My policy is simple: when overall career metrics are within close distance of each other ( both 30-34 in batting & both i think 27-29 in bowling), if one performs against the best and the other shits the bed against the best, throughout their careers, the former guy, is quite easily, the better guy in my books. 

 

I'd rank the 4 allrounders as : 1. Imran 2. Kapil ( closer than statistics show, predominantly because Kapil with the bat was a mini-Sehwag: if he scored runs, it means he absolutely destroyed the opposition and India put on runs quickly, making a bigger match-impact than a series of 30 not outs ala Imran, plus Kapil was a significantly better fielder than Imran- both at outfielding & catching), ( some distance) 3/4 : Botham/Hadlee. 

With Botham vs Hadless, it becomes a bit of a technicality vs common sense : Botham was a waaaaaaaaaaaay better batter than Hadlee, but hadlee too was a waaaaaay better bowler than Botham. So it becomes a bit of a tossup: you can say that till Botham got lazy, he was the clear-cut #1 of the pack with near 40 batting average and sub 25 bowling average at 4+ wickets/match rate but sure, Overall botham showed far better allround batter+bowler for a decent period than Hadlee ever did, but throughout their careers, Hadlee was much,much more of an impact player, because his bowling was absolute world class throughout his career. 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Adamant said:

Yeah a guy averaging 38 in test cricket was only a bowler.

 

Imran Khan was the best all rounder of that generation, followed by Botham and Dev, Hadlee was a bowler who could bat not Imran.

 

Kapil Dev and Botham had more batting talent than Imran which is evident by Botham having 12 centuries, Kapil was way more inconsistent than Khan and that’s why he averaged 6 less than him.

I could still concede that Dev was a marginally better batsman but saying that a player averaging 38 is not even a batsman is plain wrong.

Also as a bowler there was no comparison between these three, Imran was miles ahead.

 

Yes, Kapil was the best ODI allrounder though, explosive batsman and as good an Odi bowler as any, also exceptional fielder for that era.

Dhoni’s avg is 50 and Sachin’s avg is 45 in Odis . Who is better batsman, lower order batsman avg is not important.Number of not out increase batting avg. It does not make them into better batsman.

 

it is impact knocks which count not the avg for number 6 or 7.

 

Kapil had ability to score runs against any attack unlike Imran. It is not even close between their batting ability.

 

Kapil scored almost 2 100s again best fast bowling attack in WI got out in 90s in 1983 and scored more runs against that fearsome attack than Sunil Gavaskar in that series.


 

Edited by putrevus
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he is such a bad player....

 

that csk spent 16 crores on him....

 

and still won IPL after this guy pulled out injured after two games...

 

his absence was not felt at all....

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On 7/5/2024 at 6:23 PM, putrevus said:

Dhoni’s avg is 50 and Sachin’s avg is 45 in Odis . Who is better batsman, lower order batsman avg is not important.Number of not out increase batting avg. It does not make them into better batsman.

 

it is impact knocks which count not the avg for number 6 or 7.

 

Kapil had ability to score runs against any attack unlike Imran. It is not even close between their batting ability.

 

Kapil scored almost 2 100s again best fast bowling attack in WI got out in 90s in 1983 and scored more runs against that fearsome attack than Sunil Gavaskar in that series.


 

Removw those not iuts and still Imran averages better.

 

I have already said Kapil had more batting talent but his avg of 32 shows he never applied himself and finally the end result matters not your potential.

 

The difference in their batting putputs is nowhere near their bowling difference.

 

Imran was an ATG bowler, Kapil was neither an ATG bat nor ATG bowler.

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