Next generation t20 players

[tapandrun]

7 minutes ago, Kron said:

I want to emphasise again though, one season with ranji team and A tour compulsory for ipl selection. Make it mandatory.  For under 23 talents.

 

Sure exceptional talents can be fast tracked but as a general rule I want all to play one season of ranji.

 

Not only will it teach you skills, you will build endurance, strength and ability to last long and be successful in all formats. 

 

We can also maintain our pace battery. 

 

4 overs no matter what is much easier than first class cricket. A good test bowler should have no issues in 4 over formats 

Thing is franchises are not getting t20 talents from Ranji. Local t20 domestic tournaments are getting better talent.

In Ranji is all same old and test-failed talent, leagues like TNPL and etc are getting t20 players and then these franchises try to get them to play SMAT and once they are sure or 80-90% on that player they back them in Ranjis

Edited July 15, 2024 by tapandrun

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Kron said:

Venky iyer 

Even vijay shamkar was thrown out for no reason

 

Such players are very handy and yes all rounders exist.

It's just hard to do

 

Vijay Shankar got enough chances though. Recall him struggling to get ball off the square in that Nidhas trophy final where even DK was looking like Viv Richards. Venky is different though. He can bat aggressively and is a much better bowler than Dube - can easily bowl 2-3 overs and if it's a seam friendly pitch, can bowl his full quota. Should've been persisted with and hope he gets chances given we want to play 8 batsmen and 2-3 of them should be able to bowl.

 

Players like Venky, Abhishek, Axar, Parag, Pandya give you that flexibility. If you play all of them you essentially need just 3 pure bowlers. And if one of those bowlers is Harshit Rana then you also get a bowler who can hold the bat at no. 9.

[tapandrun]

10 minutes ago, Kron said:

Venky iyer 

Even vijay shamkar was thrown out for no reason

 

Such players are very handy and yes all rounders exist.

It's just hard to do

vijay shankar- not so sure , even in ipl teams he looks like a misfit

[Adamant]

4 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It showed where his priorities lay - in reaching his personal milestones than ensuring a win. He left the door open against kiwis with only Jadeja as the batsman left with 4 bowlers. Already given you enough reasons why the criticism for Kohli. If I'm a "hater" so be it but unlike you I prefer Team India to win titles instead of watching a player fill his boots for meaningless stats.

He won the match for us, he is the reason we beat Nz.
Brian Lara also scored 400 and the match ended i draw , Sachins 100th 100 cost us the match against Ban, Kohli on the other hand even with his so called "selfish" approach, won the match for us, he left when there were hardly any runs to get.

So you will beat up on him bcoz of things that could happen without actually checking the reality.

 

[Adamant]

4 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

What more to add in this case? Kohli crawled to his 50 off 48 and Pandya only got to face 2 deliveries. On a pitch where Axar and Dube were able to hit 6s, Kohli went nearly 12 overs without hitting a boundary resulting in India getting a sub-par total.

 

You and the other fanboys are coming up with the same cliched argument that we've seen in IPL for RCB multiple times "if Kohli had gotten out early, team would've collapsed". This is the reason RCB, and India hadn't won a trophy for more than a decade. Coz Kohli's long innings ends up in below par totals. This time we were saved by an out of this world Bumrah else it would've been the same old story which RCB and Indian fans have seen thanks to "King" Kohli's stat-padding.

Yaar how do I get a logical argument from you people, damn... its so hard.

1. Show me sample space where Pandya has taken us from 40 to 190, the reason Axar was able to play freely was bcoz Kohli the batter was on the other end and he would have handled the innings if Axar got out.
    
2. As usual you are seeing the situation with your tinted glasses without accounting for what would have happened in the finals had Kohli gotten out, 175 was a very good score on that pitch and it has never been chased in any finals, if this was some odd league game I could have understood your thinking, but Kohli getting out could have restricted us to 150 (or lets say 190 if Panyda miraculously bailed us out) theres a chance of both of those things happening, while his cautious approach ensured 175, which has never been chased in a final and SA came close only due to Klassens Godly knock, no other batter came close to emulating his knock, all SA batters strike rate was slow only
   
   From that situation I would have taken 175 any day.
   
   You are not getting the point

 

 

[Adamant]

4 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Stabilizing in T20 doesn't mean going boundary less for 12 overs, and scoring a 48 ball 50. The guy stat-padded pure and simple. And as soon as he scored his 50, he started hitting coz he reached his personal milestone. Seen that in RCB where Kohli has tapped full-tosses for singles in the 19th over to get to his milestone, and saw a similar theme in the final.

Stat padded? So you are saying he wasnt trying to hit or he wasn't able to.
For some time he was stabilising, thats not called stats padding, do you really think his stats (that are already godly) will get better with this knock?
He should have hit on a bit earlier near 40, he was trying to but couldn't, so he kept on taking singles and when he finally hit one, he got the confidence and powered us to a good score.

I dont really wanna argue this much, but believe me this is not an open shut case like you have been proclaiming, you and your supporters also know that if Kohli hadn't scored the results could have been different and there was less probability of winning had he gottten out on 35 odd.

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point, you are just too steadfast on your opinion.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Adamant

[raki05]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Stat padded? So you are saying he wasnt trying to hit or he wasn't able to.
For some time he was stabilising, thats not called stats padding, do you really think his stats (that are already godly) will get better with this knock?
He should have hit on a bit earlier near 40, he was trying to but couldn't, so he kept on taking singles and when he finally hit one, he got the confidence and powered us to a good score.

I dont really wanna argue this much, but believe me this is not an open shut case like you have been proclaiming, you and your supporters also know that if Kohli hadn't scored the results could have been different and there was less probability of winning had he gottten out on 35 odd.

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point, you are just too steadfast on your opinion.

There is no cure for such delusional grown ass man…  A fool at 40 is fool forever. Lage raho!!

[Adamant]

49 minutes ago, raki05 said:

There is no cure for such delusional grown ass man…  A fool at 40 is fool forever. Lage raho!!

okay

[Adamant]

49 minutes ago, raki05 said:

There is no cure for such delusional grown ass man…  A fool at 40 is fool forever. Lage raho!!

I am 25 btw

[raki05]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

I am 25 btw

Its a proverb btw…

[Ultimate_Game]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

He won the match for us, he is the reason we beat Nz.
Brian Lara also scored 400 and the match ended i draw , Sachins 100th 100 cost us the match against Ban, Kohli on the other hand even with his so called "selfish" approach, won the match for us, he left when there were hardly any runs to get.

So you will beat up on him bcoz of things that could happen without actually checking the reality.

 

 

One selfish act doesn't justify another. Tendulkar's innings against B'desh was a poor one and cost the team that match, and Kohli's stat-padding followed similar lines. We have to move away from this fetish for personal milestones. Rohit showed the way in WC2023 and WT20 2024. I don't recall the no. of 50s & 100s Rohit scored, but his impact was easy to see. The point was about Kohli (and KL Rahul) obsessed more about stats than the team.

We want cups & tournament wins and not 100s & meaningless personal stats & milestones.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

Yaar how do I get a logical argument from you people, damn... its so hard.

1. Show me sample space where Pandya has taken us from 40 to 190, the reason Axar was able to play freely was bcoz Kohli the batter was on the other end and he would have handled the innings if Axar got out.
    
2. As usual you are seeing the situation with your tinted glasses without accounting for what would have happened in the finals had Kohli gotten out, 175 was a very good score on that pitch and it has never been chased in any finals, if this was some odd league game I could have understood your thinking, but Kohli getting out could have restricted us to 150 (or lets say 190 if Panyda miraculously bailed us out) theres a chance of both of those things happening, while his cautious approach ensured 175, which has never been chased in a final and SA came close only due to Klassens Godly knock, no other batter came close to emulating his knock, all SA batters strike rate was slow only
   
   From that situation I would have taken 175 any day.
   
   You are not getting the point

 

 

 

I see your point but you're simply not seeing the big picture. Yes, everyone agrees Kohli had to slow down a bit but surely taking 48 deliveries to score a 50 is too slow no matter what. Take between 35-40 deliveries but a 48 ball 50 is barely par for a ODI these days. We've seen a similar theme in IPL as well where RCB regularly score a below par total.

 

Kohli could've accelerated couple of overs earlier when the situation was in control with us over 100 at the time. With India batting till 8 and Pandya in form, we should've batted more aggressively. In the end it was Bumrah & Pandya's miraculous bowling and SA choking got us the win as we were a bit short. The whole point of batting with intent and loading the team so we can bat till 8 is to take more risks. If we keep on settling for par scores, we would end up with similar results which we saw the last decade, i.e., 0 trophies.

 

And that is exactly the reason we want to see high-impact players such as Jaiswal and Abhishek. They may not be as consistent but when they fire they'll win games by themselves similar to Head, Maxwell, Buttler, Hales/Bairstow. That's the whole point of adding depth as even if batters fail more often, added depth will ensure at least one or two batsmen fire on a given day. Kohli opening in WT20 and Jaiswal sitting on the bench goes against that approach as Jaiswal (or Abhishek) are much more likely to get a rapid start in PP overs. Kohli's game has never been taking on the bowlers in PP. And we saw that during the WT20 where Kohli failed consistently and had to bat slowly to score runs.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point, you are just too steadfast on your opinion.

 

My opinion is based on the facts. 0 trophies for more than a decade with a similar approach of aiming for a par or just below par score while batting conservatively. I would rather we follow Eng's approach where we bat aggressively and fill the team with multi-dimensional cricketers to do so.

 

Game has moved on and playing slowly in T20s has no place in it. Kohli had his time, and he was great between 2012 and 2016 but that's no longer the case. His best innings and knocks came during that period and I'll always remember his knock in 2016 against Aussies - probably his best T20 knock.

[Need4Speed]

whats the plan to kick Gill's butt..and move away from that stat pad and star culture..for me he isnt a start yet..so shouldnt hold on to opening position in LOI..Sharma can be given more oppprtunities before making a judgement on him..Gill is fine for number 3 presently..

If we can bat till 8..we should go all guns blazing..

 

If in T20 wcup..irrespectove of not being successful..the Roko were trying to go full assault..why the hell did Gill went into safe mode with opening in such an inconsequential series..

 

i wanted to see more of Sharma,Parag and Rana..not Gill,Mukesh and Avesh..

Edited July 15, 2024 by Need4Speed

[Laaloo]

2 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

whats the plan to kick Gill's butt..and move away from that stat pad and star culture..for me he isnt a start yet..so shouldnt hold on to opening position in LOI..Sharma can be given more oppprtunities before making a judgement on him..Gill is fine for number 3 presently..

If we can bat till 8..we should go all guns blazing..

 

If in T20 wcup..irrespectove of not being successful..the Roko were trying to go full assault..why the hell did Gill went into safe mode with opening in such an inconsequential series..

 

i wanted to see more of Sharma,Parag and Rana..not Gill,Mukesh and Avesh..

Gill is not a T20 player.

[Ultimate_Game]

3 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Gill is not a T20 player.

 

Yup. Gill and Sai Sudarshan are better suited to ODIs. Jaiswal and Abhishek are much better openers for T20s. We don't want batters who score a 50 ball 65 in the T20 side. I would take a 14 ball 30 over it any day.

[Need4Speed]

i doubt our TM will sack Gill from T20 setup so easily..at best they will move him to #3..

hypothetically if Gill is removed from T20s..who should be your number 3..Samson?

[Ultimate_Game]

5 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

i doubt our TM will sack Gill from T20 setup so easily..at best they will move him to #3..

hypothetically if Gill is removed from T20s..who should be your number 3..Samson?

 

That'll be a progress as well. Don't want us to waste Abhishek by batting him at 3 while Gill stat-pads. Need to learn from Pak how they wasted the only match-winner they had in Fakhar by pushing him down the order to accommodate Babar & Rizwan.

 

Let Jaiswal and Abhishek open. Also, keep Ruturaj away from shorter formats. Too many consolidators if we get likes of Gill and Ruturaj in. Plus Ruturaj is a poor fielder and has a penchant for dropping sitters.

[tapandrun]

T20 is a rapidly evolving and changing format. After the Eng reset after 2015 to their approach everything  has changed.

 

There is no place of an accumulator. these days they will lose you matches more than they will win specially while batting 1st and setting-up a target.

You hit and I anchor is not an approach right now. This could spark some controversy but had SA won that Final (which was kind of more than 90% their game) Ind audiences would have been cursing Kolhi for the innings and would have done so when MIller and Klasen were batting.

 

1 single bad over par score looks like a no-score because of the hitting ability of batters these days. Batters are looking for 2+ boundaries each over these days.

Gone are those days when in theory batters were looking for 1 boundary po.

 

Teams are removing player like root, smith, willimson etc because their innings are not contributing to wins.  Will it be hard task for players like  root, smith, willimson etc to have a 40+ avg with a sub 130 SR if their team set-up allow them to be that player ??

 

No more T20 accumulator no more single utility player unless they are pure match winner with the single utility. These are intnl player cannot they hold-up one end and still score quick runs? why there is a need for specialist anchor-guy ??

 

 

[Need4Speed]

In case of tricky pitch..which will keep on reducing with T20 dominance..if an accumulator is needed then the batsmen must adapt to it..basically the accumulation should be secondary skill..rather than the primary skill..we need naturally agressive batsmen who can shift gears to slow down or say make good shot selection if there is need of the hour but dont want to start them first with accumulation mode..

Edited July 15, 2024 by Need4Speed