Mukesh Kumar has the fortitude of a soldier.

[maniac]

8 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Tbh...I don't understand the rationale behind hating Umran Malik so much.

 

He has outperformed Mukesh in the 2 formats where they both have played. Yet, people diss him as he is some erratic, brainless spraygun.

 

For strong bench strength as well, one need to pick the bowlers who are suitable for most of the conditions and pitches. As this bench strength is from where you will develop bowlers who will replace the first choice ones when they are unavailable.

 

Rather that selecting those who can only bowl at certain phases and conditions and would remain a burden for the team for remaining duration is a regressive step.

 

We carried Bhuvaneshwar Kumar for years over Shami coz he was supposedly accurate. Now people have accepted than Bhuvi is not even 30% of what Shami has given us. Yet Shami kept on missing games for Bhuvi's mythical skills.

I am not even a FC class cricketer and I can clearly see Umran Malik has 0 skills apart from pace leave alone actual cricketers and coaching staff. Even that pace is in max 145 range when he last played which is no great shakes.  He hasn’t outperformed anyone, he didn’t have what it takes to be an international cricketer and neither has shown grind in domestics.

 

Look I don’t know how long you have followed me on this forum but I hate a trundler as much as anyone on this forum. However it is getting a tad irritating that just because someone hits 140 they are hailed as the best thing since slice bread and some

one with 135+ with skills and performance is not only written off as a trundler  but there seems some toxicity. Not even discussing Mukesh etc. 

 

Watch cricket like a cricket fan and have a cricketing debate like you have done so far and no issue even if I am wrong, no ego there. I stopped discussing in speed and performance watch thread because there is no real take way than someone hit 140. 140 doesn’t even excite me anymore because 140+ with 0 skills is the easiest halwa bowling for international batsmen, easier to hit than a left arm darter or a part time spinner. 

[tapandrun]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Tbh...I don't understand the rationale behind hating Umran Malik so much.

 

He has outperformed Mukesh in the 2 formats where they both have played. Yet, people diss him as he is some erratic, brainless spraygun.

 

For strong bench strength as well, one need to pick the bowlers who are suitable for most of the conditions and pitches. As this bench strength is from where you will develop bowlers who will replace the first choice ones when they are unavailable.

 

Rather that selecting those who can only bowl at certain phases and conditions and would remain a burden for the team for remaining duration is a regressive step.

 

We carried Bhuvaneshwar Kumar for years over Shami coz he was supposedly accurate. Now people have accepted than Bhuvi is not even 30% of what Shami has given us. Yet Shami kept on missing games for Bhuvi's mythical skills.

 

There is no rational to it, its just how its engrained into Ind audiences and Ind cricketing culture- A faster bowler would be erratic, brainless spraygun and would have unhealthy attitude towards other team mates.

They would dismiss any1 not being the conventional /good boy of Ind cricket. Ppl were against of Kolhi's nature too saying he is too aggressive, few did not like him in the team even when he was winning the matches, yes some of his aggression is fake and over the top and some of it to may be get camera attraction. PPl did not like Dhoni initially as well with his long hairs and unorthodox batting style for the time 

 

When SENA batters started playing reverse sweeps and ramps Ind commentators will rubbish them and point out that they are losing their wkts because of that.

Because of this nature Ind still does not find batters who are good players of sweep or reverse sweep which is essential these days.

 

PPl are ridiculing Bazz-ball cricket yes Eng failed to perform in Ind but no team in Ind has won test series for a long time, they came close put Ind under pressure but this was a newly assembled Ind team.

These Eng batters are not grown-up with Bazz-ball cricket or that mind set they are adopting it on the fly and trying it for the first time, would some1 be able to ask Ind stars to change the way they play add new skills??

 

Bhuvi was good white ball bowler for sometime during 2016 (not exactly sure on year) firstly he was just a PP overs bowler then there-on, he was no good .he then added slower and was able to bowl some good Yorkers. Lately he lost yorkers and his slower-ones or slower ones in general are becoming easier to spot or batters are becoming stronger or some data related points they know about certain bowlers. If he still gets favourable condition he can sure get wkts but do you need such a condition dependent bowler

 

Mukesh has done decent with the chances he is given in T20s, Do not think he is test quality, hardly has anything in the deliveries many times feels like club level throw downs. Never against of age , if they are good age does not matter some are late bloomers thats alright, if some1 in Ind cricketing circuit misses U-19 its really hard to get into the systems. But would you like to bench a 30ish yo bowler on the bench who is relatively in exp.at intnl level and cannot directly fit into playing 11.

 

Umran is 145+ kmph bowler , the second IPL season he was fire hitting top batters on helmets- When was the last time any1 saw an non-intnl Ind bowler do that .....?? or even an Ind capped bowler do that ...??

 

He was good and when he got into the Intnl side he was good as well but then he lost the confidence. T20is are not good format fr Ind fast bowler they do not know how to stop runs. Hence always wanted these bowlers to be tested and groomed in Odis first.

Small sample but if there is comparision made between Umran and other similar 2nd string Ind bowlers his ER is not that bad his is `11 po and others are 10 po in T20 and his is ~7 po and others are -6 po in odis. So in isolation its v.similar.

 

How a coach should see this is - In t20s every batter would look for a boundary of every over no matter who the bowler is, and now with Umran batters do get 1 more boundary off the edges and then with underpressure he bowls 1 bad ball. If coaches can work on his 1 bad ball and find some way that his balls start moving a bit he would be a different bowler. Those edges could go fr catches and stats will start looking ok. And he needs to bowl more deliveries near to his top speeds ~150 kmph.

 

Do not think there are many teams where a #5 and downwards are capable hitters of 145+ kmph balls in general

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by tapandrun

[maniac]

Give this man the respect he deserves

[Ultimate_Game]

Much better than likes of Avesh, Deshpande etc. Mukesh, Akash Deep and Mohsin Khan are better than the others we've seen. And once Mayank Yadav is fit, these're the players I would love to see some game time instead of wasting games on Avesh and Deshpande.

 

We need to build our bowling bench strength and Mukesh definitely has raised his hand and stood up.

[Kron]

43 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Much better than likes of Avesh, Deshpande etc. Mukesh, Akash Deep and Mohsin Khan are better than the others we've seen. And once Mayank Yadav is fit, these're the players I would love to see some game time instead of wasting games on Avesh and Deshpande.

 

We need to build our bowling bench strength and Mukesh definitely has raised his hand and stood up.

They need be able to bowl with test match level fitness and Intensity. I still firmly believe 1 go 2 season of ranji should be made compulsory for ipl and t20 selection. 

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, Kron said:

They need be able to bowl with test match level fitness and Intensity. I still firmly believe 1 go 2 season of ranji should be made compulsory for ipl and t20 selection. 

 

That would definitely help but unfortunately we don't allow Pak teams and players in Ranji 

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, Kron said:

They need be able to bowl with test match level fitness and Intensity. I still firmly believe 1 go 2 season of ranji should be made compulsory for ipl and t20 selection. 

 

Yes, they should be encouraged to play Ranji but I wouldn't make it a hard rule. I would rather have Mayank in T20s and ODIs without playing a season of Ranji than see Avesh worming his way through just because he played Ranji for a couple of seasons.

[maniac]

4fr . 

[maniac]

Akashdeep is bang average. Sorry. Mukesh moves up the list. I have seen highlights of previous India A game and this one. He is in red hot form. If you want to have any hope in BGT, he is a must.

 

Siraj will do alright in Australia and Bumrah is Bumrah.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2024 by maniac

[vvvslaxman]

Are you sure? If you really want not to get out to Mukesh you can do that. I don't trust this dude with lack of pace.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

Akashdeep is bang average. Sorry. Mukesh moves up the list. I have seen highlights of previous India A game and this one. He is in red hot form. If you want to have any hope in BGT, he is a must.

 

Siraj will do alright in Australia and Bumrah is Bumrah.

 

 

I hope you realise you are comparing Akashdeep bowling in India to Mukesh bowling on green pacy Aussie pitches.

[Number]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

Akashdeep is bang average. Sorry. Mukesh moves up the list. I have seen highlights of previous India A game and this one. He is in red hot form. If you want to have any hope in BGT, he is a must.

 

Siraj will do alright in Australia and Bumrah is Bumrah.

 

 

Both Mukesh and Akashdeep played in England series. 

Mukesh was going for 4 literally every ball on the pitch where Bumrah took 6fer.

Akashdeep has outbowled or matched every pacer he has played with so far.

[maniac]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I hope you realise you are comparing Akashdeep bowling in India to Mukesh bowling on green pacy Aussie pitches.

No I am comparing their overall skills. Akashdeep got more wickets than Siraj too or Bumrah in 1-2 games but he is a typical domestic Indian bowler who is decent in swinging conditions  on dry pitches. Nothing impressive.

 

Mukesh has the best seam position in the country and can get reverse swing too.

 

He is in good form and I feel his style of bowling is better suited to Australia.

[Ultimate_Game]

My updated pace bowling depth chart...

 

1. Bumrah

2. Shami (if fit)

3. Akashdeep

4. Mukesh

5. Harshit Rana

6. Siraj

 

[maniac]

13 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

My updated pace bowling depth chart...

 

1. Bumrah

2. Shami (if fit)

3. Akashdeep

4. Mukesh

5. Harshit Rana

6. Siraj

 

Siraj will look better than all domestic trundlers in Australia. 

[Ultimate_Game]

9 hours ago, maniac said:

Siraj will look better than all domestic trundlers in Australia. 

 

I have my doubts. Siraj doesn't look anywhere near his best. His pace has dropped markedly as well. He was touching early 140s at his best and now he's barely hitting 130. And he's getting no movement at all which Akash Deep was able to. IMO Aus is his last chance and if he doesn't do anything in the series, needs to be dropped.

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, maniac said:

No I am comparing their overall skills. Akashdeep got more wickets than Siraj too or Bumrah in 1-2 games but he is a typical domestic Indian bowler who is decent in swinging conditions  on dry pitches. Nothing impressive.

 

Mukesh has the best seam position in the country and can get reverse swing too.

 

He is in good form and I feel his style of bowling is better suited to Australia.

Mukesh doesn't have good seam position. He bowls with wobbly seam. Reverse swing at 130 doesn't mean much. Akash gets more bounce, more swing, more seam movement than Mukesh and at higher pace. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by rkt.india

[Suhaan]

On 11/8/2024 at 8:15 AM, maniac said:

Akashdeep is bang average. Sorry. Mukesh moves up the list. I have seen highlights of previous India A game and this one. He is in red hot form. If you want to have any hope in BGT, he is a must.

 

Siraj will do alright in Australia and Bumrah is Bumrah.

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2024 by Suhaan

[Nikhil_cric]

15 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

My updated pace bowling depth chart...

 

1. Bumrah

2. Shami (if fit)

3. Akashdeep

4. Mukesh

5. Harshit Rana

6. Siraj

 

Think Shami is finally done. He's been out for a year.  So you'll have to replace him in that list. 

[Ultimate_Game]

9 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Think Shami is finally done. He's been out for a year.  So you'll have to replace him in that list. 

 

Sad if true. One of the most underrated performers for India, and one of the best pacers.