Chakdephatte Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 (edited) As a commentator and analyst, we have seen he doesn't have any ideology or particular beliefs (in cricketing terms). He just comes up with opinions on the spot. Like, Ashwin at no. 4 in world cup. His own views on cricket are incoherent. Doesn't trust modern day analysis, has old school (random) methods. He is coach because of KKR's win and the allegations against their main coach KKR. @Lord, @coffee_rules, @vvvslaxman, @Frustrated, Edited July 11, 2024 by Chakdephatte Lord and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment
singhvivek141 Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 34 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said: So much noise for head coach. Head coch can do zilch, we will tournament only if new talebdted players are capable of showing up at KO matches. Do we guys really think he can finish seniority and star culture? Must be deluding. Haven't we seen Jay Shah sucking upto Rohit -Kohli? He is BCCI not GG.. Atleast he can play a small role in selecting the right players for the right formats. Ultimate_Game 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Atleast he can play a small role in selecting the right players for the right formats. All depends on captain agreeing with the suggestions. Both selectors and coach can't do much if captain wants/doesnt want any player Ultimate_Game 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 20 hours ago, express bowling said: Read it carefully. He says that when you are young, you should bowl as fast ax you can. At that time your bowling muscles are developing. This is a well known fact. We want not so young pacers, who are 25 years +, to bowl at 140 k+ too. Like we have seen with Srinath, Umesh, Shami and Bumrah. Zaheer himself bowled very fast when young and then cut down on pace. And has said things like these thereafter. Indian bodies not designed to bowl fast: Zaheer Khan https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.ndtv.com/cricket/indian-bodies-not-designed-to-bowl-fast-zaheer-khan-1565076/amp/1 There are enough 'experts' who discourage bowling fast even among youngsters. The message is to bowl as fast as you can when young and then add skills/accuracy later with experience. Nothing wrong in it and he hasn't suggested cutting down pace. The link you posted, again he said nothing wrong. Fast bowling doesn't come naturally to us else we would have produced lot more fast bowlers. He talks about identifying your strengths and weaknesses which anyone would. Again I don't see him advocating line and length over pace. As I said, I'd want a foreign coach. But if other option is Vinay Kumar,I'm quite happy to have Zak unless you can prove Vinay encourages pace bowling. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 16 minutes ago, Lord said: The link you posted, again he said nothing wrong. Fast bowling doesn't come naturally to us else we would have produced lot more fast bowlers. He talks about identifying your strengths and weaknesses which anyone would. Again I don't see him advocating line and length over pace. That is pure BS rollingstoned and express bowling 2 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 8 minutes ago, Suhaan said: That is pure BS Yes lets have Vinee Ko maar Link to comment
coffee_rules Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 (edited) 6 hours ago, Chakdephatte said: As a commentator and analyst, we have seen he doesn't have any ideology or particular beliefs (in cricketing terms). He just comes up with opinions on the spot. Like, Ashwin at no. 4 in world cup. His own views on cricket are incoherent. Doesn't trust modern day analysis, has old school (random) methods. He is coach because of KKR's win and the allegations against their main coach KKR. @Lord, @coffee_rules, @vvvslaxman, @Frustrated, He was effective as coach even in LSG and got them to playoffs. Apart from KKR cred. His analysis as a commentator/analyst are way off. His IPL picks were a running joke on SM. But his ability as a coach is good as per results and that is what that matters. He’s had behavioral issues and also narcissistic, hopefully it will not impact. His image as a coach is that of a serious no-nonsense class monitor /disciplinarian like Kumble. I don’t know how it will go with seniors. Hopefully his selections will be good along with captains preference. Edited July 11, 2024 by coffee_rules Ultimate_Game 1 Link to comment
singhvivek141 Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 1 hour ago, Lord said: There are enough 'experts' who discourage bowling fast even among youngsters. The message is to bowl as fast as you can when young and then add skills/accuracy later with experience. Nothing wrong in it and he hasn't suggested cutting down pace. The link you posted, again he said nothing wrong. Fast bowling doesn't come naturally to us else we would have produced lot more fast bowlers. He talks about identifying your strengths and weaknesses which anyone would. Again I don't see him advocating line and length over pace. As I said, I'd want a foreign coach. But if other option is Vinay Kumar,I'm quite happy to have Zak unless you can prove Vinay encourages pace bowling. Fast bowling, like any other art, needs support and encouragement. It acts as a motivation. We can produce so many spinners and batters because they have had heroes to look up to. Kumble grew up watching Prasanna and Chandra, Bhajji was inspired by Bedi...you need role models. Our bowling culture started to revive during Ganguly's era...now we have bowlers who can bowl fast even in their mid-thirties. What Zak told isn't true anymore. express bowling and Ultimate_Game 2 Link to comment
BacktoCricaddict Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 (edited) Before we completely dismiss Vinay Kumar's coaching abilities, let's remember: Bharat Arun was a trundler. I doubt if he bowled any faster than Madan Lal or Vinay Kumar Bharat Arun played exactly 6 international matches. Bharat Arun's FC bowling average is 32.44. But, Bharat Arun was a good bowling coach for Team India, under whom the fast bowlers did quite well. Often times, guys with limited talent/physical abilities have to compensate with a strong work ethic, discipline, grit and consistency. They probably know why things work and impart that knowledge to talented players. Vinay Kumar comes across that kind of guy - an honest trier with a tremendous FC record and a reputation of being a good mentor. There is nothing to suggest that he will stifle fast bowlers just because he was a trundler. If Gambhir thinks he will be a good coach, perhaps we should trust him. Edited July 11, 2024 by BacktoCricaddict Need4Speed, express bowling and coffee_rules 1 2 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 10 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Fast bowling, like any other art, needs support and encouragement. It acts as a motivation. We can produce so many spinners and batters because they have had heroes to look up to. Kumble grew up watching Prasanna and Chandra, Bhajji was inspired by Bedi...you need role models. Our bowling culture started to revive during Ganguly's era...now we have bowlers who can bowl fast even in their mid-thirties. What Zak told isn't true anymore. Yes the interview is old from his playing days. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 57 minutes ago, Lord said: Yes lets have Vinee Ko maar Will appreciate if you don't put words on my mouth Did I say that?Same thread I have posted my reply here maybe previous page This is no Vinay vs Zaheer I said ,what has exactly changes in Indian bodies genetically in last 10 years or since Zaheer? express bowling 1 Link to comment
Ultimate_Game Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 1 hour ago, Lord said: All depends on captain agreeing with the suggestions. Both selectors and coach can't do much if captain wants/doesnt want any player Gambhir needs to cure Rohit of his Chahal, Jadeja and Dube fetish, and hopefully get in some KKR, SRH and RR youngsters Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 4 minutes ago, Suhaan said: Will appreciate if you don't put words on my mouth Did I say that?Same thread I have posted my reply here maybe previous page This is no Vinay vs Zaheer I said ,what has exactly changes in Indian bodies genetically in last 10 years or since Zaheer? Not much as such. If you see bodies of Aus, SA even WI quicks vs us, the difference is still there However now there is a very conscious effort to manage the fitness, rotating the bowling etcs alongwith shift to better diets. Basically we are using the money and awareness. A Shami in 90s wouldn't have been so effective because he'd have been forced to play every meaningless game hence causing burnouts. Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said: Gambhir needs to cure Rohit of his Chahal, Jadeja and Dube fetish, and hopefully get in some KKR, SRH and RR youngsters Dube and Jadeja are there due to GG's longtime friend Ultimate_Game 1 Link to comment
coffee_rules Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 7 minutes ago, Lord said: Dube and Jadeja are there due to GG's longtime friend Ask him, he will say "Ek Chakke ne WC11 jitiaya!" Lord 1 Link to comment
Serpico Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 Gambhir is try random stuff until something works kind of guy. He will look like a genius when those random ideas work. What is good about him is he doesn't continue something just because it is the established tradition, he questions everything. Since ict is always run on traditions and conventional wisdom, it'll be a good change to try and see what else is good. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 21 minutes ago, Lord said: Not much as such. If you see bodies of Aus, SA even WI quicks vs us, the difference is still there However now there is a very conscious effort to manage the fitness, rotating the bowling etcs alongwith shift to better diets. Basically we are using the money and awareness. A Shami in 90s wouldn't have been so effective because he'd have been forced to play every meaningless game hence causing burnouts. Not everyone of them there have the ability to fast Only a few have those fast twitch fibres,not each one of them is gifted with that Fast bowling ,longevity,and retention of pace is very rare for a said pool of pacers in each country We have started witnessing those guys here as well,benefit of huge gene pool here you know Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 5 minutes ago, Serpico said: Gambhir is try random stuff until something works kind of guy. He will look like a genius when those random ideas work. What is good about him is he doesn't continue something just because it is the established tradition, he questions everything. Since ict is always run on traditions and conventional wisdom, it'll be a good change to try and see what else is good. Thala was like that too. Need someone to think out of the box. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 16 minutes ago, Lord said: Thala was like that too. Need someone to think out of the box. Gambhir wanted Aus to drop Cummins from their odi squad just before CWC as he thought he was a poor odi player Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 2 minutes ago, Suhaan said: Gambhir wanted Aus to drop Cummins from their odi squad just before CWC as he thought he was a poor odi player Interesting times ahead Link to comment
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