Will Gambhir, Agarkar and their teams be able to identify and give chances to the next lot of Indian strike bowlers ?

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

100% correct.

BCCI should make a rule that under 135k trundlers should bat and field well. 

 

Bumrah is a 140k plus bowler and yet he improved his batting and fielding big time. Umesh has been a 140+ bowler for so long and is a very good fielder and useful slogger. Shami too is handy with bat at times.

 

What stops the likes of Mukesh, Avesh, Khaleel etc to do the same...they are just being lazy and show no incentive to improve. 

or same can be said about our selectors..to keep picking them again and again

[tapandrun]

There should be clear segregation between the T20, Odi and Test format players, be it batter or bowler there could be some cross-over.

But if one player does well in one format no need to play him other or if they are not doing that good not need to write them off from all formats.

 

In t20s bowlers needs variety, should be able to bat (hit 4/6) and hopefully have something that can take away couple of seconds form the batter before they get into power stance. - (list of some potential picks not listing already settled bowlers)Arshad khan, Mukesh Choudhary, Mohsin they can bat and are nippy with being LAF. Yudhvir, Arora, 

In Tests what has worked for decades - Tall, fast, zippy get bounce from awkward lengths- (list of some potential picks not listing already settled bowlers)Rana, Mayank, Simarjeet, Umran, Tyagi, Akash Deep, Himanshu (not sure of his pace but he was bouncing out batters in Ranji)

Odi- Can be cross over of some T20 and test bowlers 

 

Edited July 16 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

Different people get motivated by different means.

 

There are some people who respond positively when they are ignored. Drop them. And the moment they get a couple of chances they start punching above their weights. Like Shami. Everytime he has been dropped from important ODIs, he has performed like a dream on getting a chance. Jurel maybe someone similar too.

 

And there are others who start performing when they are encouraged continuously. Give them chances regularly, tell them how good they are, make them feel like they are the best. And they will perform amazingly. Umran maybe someone who fits this mould. Steyn and Co. made him feel special in 2022. And he showcased his best efforts. Later, he was ignored or treated ordinarily by Lara, Laxman, Dravid, Mhambrey, Rohit etc.  And he fell on his face.

 

TMs need to understand this while dealing with players with special qualities. Otherwise we will never be able to utilize our top talents optimally.

[rkt.india]

18 hours ago, Suhaan said:

@rkt.india

Where is Nikhil Kohli now?

He has moved to Chandigarh 

[rkt.india]

18 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

I doubt BCCI is even thinking about him..tehy get 0 marks for far sightedness..

Bcci is much more proactive than what people think. He was part of the u23 camp organised by BCCI in NCA earlier this year.

[Chakdephatte]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bcci is much more proactive than what people think. He was part of the u23 camp organised by BCCI in NCA earlier this year.

They just need to promote some of their scouts as selectors. Ex-cricketers hardly do their research. 

[Strangering]

Category 1 grooming has to start at U15 levels. Don't kid yourself, there is no Bumrah waiting on the sidelines. 

 

Arshdeep is only 25 so his peak is probably around the time when Bumrah will retire. 

[Need4Speed]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bcci is much more proactive than what people think. He was part of the u23 camp organised by BCCI in NCA earlier this year.

thats nice to hear

 

[tapandrun]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bcci is much more proactive than what people think. He was part of the u23 camp organised by BCCI in NCA earlier this year.

The issue is there is no road-map from NCA to domestic sides, they organize camps but what is the point ??

Yes the decisions are decentralized and top bcci does not interfere much into domestic boards which is a good thing but v.high potential players should have a road-map.

 

Top potentials are finding hard to make it to the team and low potential players are getting easy caps.

Sen wasted 1 year and there was no action by bcci, they do not know what to do with Tyagi and Umran (both potential express bowlers).

Rana amongst best potential was not even part of del cricket, Suryash amongst few leg-spinner in Ind was not part of del. team before IPL.

 

Sakib -KKR has no domestic plan. V,high potential players should have a proper road map, get domestic cricket.

Ind player does not get to play other t20 leagues like other which is a disadvantage these days as other players get to showcase and test waters in other leagues and refine their talent and when it comes to IPL because of their exp. in other leagues they get to play in first 11 where ind player had to wait for at least 1 season.

 

Atleast top talent should play something like challenger trophies, need to get these guys to the speed. Ind players are losing time to other players.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, tapandrun said:

The issue is there is no road-map from NCA to domestic sides, they organize camps but what is the point ??

Yes the decisions are decentralized and top bcci does not interfere much into domestic boards which is a good thing but v.high potential players should have a road-map.

 

Top potentials are finding hard to make it to the team and low potential players are getting easy caps.

Sen wasted 1 year and there was no action by bcci, they do not know what to do with Tyagi and Umran (both potential express bowlers).

Rana amongst best potential was not even part of del cricket, Suryash amongst few leg-spinner in Ind was not part of del. team before IPL.

 

Sakib -KKR has no domestic plan. V,high potential players should have a proper road map, get domestic cricket.

Ind player does not get to play other t20 leagues like other which is a disadvantage these days as other players get to showcase and test waters in other leagues and refine their talent and when it comes to IPL because of their exp. in other leagues they get to play in first 11 where ind player had to wait for at least 1 season.

 

Atleast top talent should play something like challenger trophies, need to get these guys to the speed. Ind players are losing time to other players.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Exactly !   Superb post !

 

I had written about the need for a Central Coordinator for Team India prospects.

 

His role would be to over-see the transition of high potential rookies from U19 cricket to Senior Domestic Cricket and then to Team India.

 

This is even more important for pacers as they are getting lost during the transition process.  Like Tyagi, Sen, Umran and Nagarkoti. 

 

If a high potential pacer gets injured or loses form then he is forgotten. Sen got an ODI debut, got injured and nobody is interested in him now although Harsha said at that time that the Indian TM had a high opinion of him. 

 

Why isn't anyone trying to guide or mentor Tyagi and Umran ?

Edited July 18 by express bowling

[Sgattick10]

Akash Deep was brilliant in the test series. He can be good in ODIs too. If he is fit should be picked for SL series atleast he's be better then the likes of mukesh, avesh, khaleel etc. 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said:

Akash Deep was brilliant in the test series. He can be good in ODIs too. If he is fit should be picked for SL series atleast he's be better then the likes of mukesh, avesh, khaleel etc. 

 

I want this too.

[Rightarmfast]

Just saw the team for Bangladesh test. Jaydev unadkat is selected in the team. 

I wonder what you guys are blabbering about. If you can't see through the red tape'sim and politics, you guys are naive. 

 

The real express bowlers will never be given preference. That hurts the interest of major stakeholders. Whats been happening in India for decades is not cricket. Its beyond that. Its personal interest of a handful who may have never played cricket in their lifetime. Nobody bats an eyelid just because Mayank Yadav can bowl at the same pace as Shoaib Akhtar.

Dont raise your hopes and then be bitter about it. I have been watching this since 90's. Nothing has changed and nothing will. You guys can carry on with the theatrics but nothing will happen.

[Lone Wolf]

Good to see Indian fans start to hype Harshit.

Idk about others but I feel GG will back him. He has to

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Just saw the team for Bangladesh test. Jaydev unadkat is selected in the team. 

I wonder what you guys are blabbering about. If you can't see through the red tape'sim and politics, you guys are naive. 

 

The real express bowlers will never be given preference. That hurts the interest of major stakeholders. Whats been happening in India for decades is not cricket. Its beyond that. Its personal interest of a handful who may have never played cricket in their lifetime. Nobody bats an eyelid just because Mayank Yadav can bowl at the same pace as Shoaib Akhtar.

Dont raise your hopes and then be bitter about it. I have been watching this since 90's. Nothing has changed and nothing will. You guys can carry on with the theatrics but nothing will happen.

 

 

RAFbhai ... your views are generally very similar to mine regarding Fast bowling. 

 

But I beg to differ regarding atleast a part of what you said. It is true that there have always been stakeholders in Indian cricket who keep pushing their sifarishi candidates and always will.

 

But from the early 1990s to 2021 ... we saw roughly 50% to 60% of the quickest pacers of that era getting backed. 

 

■   Early 1990s .. Srinath was backed and had a long career. Ankola was backed too but was more interested in films. While Wassan and Zaidi were ignored.

 

■  Late 1990s to early 2000s ... Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar were backed. Harvinder Singh. Johnson and the Rakesh Patel were ignored. We hosted a very quick attack of Nehra, Zaheer and Srinath in the 2003 WC.

 

■  Mid to late 2000s ... Munaf, Sreesanth, RP and then Ishant were backed. While VRV and Sudeep Tyagi were lost. This period was notorious for Indian pacers losing pace. Happened to Zaheer, Munaf and Sreesanth.

 

■  Early 2010s .. Umesh and Shami debuted and had long successful careers eventually.  Aaron got lost.

 

■  2015 to 2021 ... The golden period of Indian Fast bowling in test matches under Kohli, Arun and Shastri. Bumrah debuted in 2016 in T20Is and in 2018 in tests and is a legend now. Siraj was backed albeit 2 years too late. Prasidh debuted successfully but kept getting injured. Umesh and Ishant's test careers revived. Shami became a world class quick during this period.  Saini got lost. Tyagi was ignored after the Aussie tour of 2020-21. 

 

■  2022 to mid 2024 ... Not a single new 140 k+ pacer, who debuted during this period, was backed. Umran and Sen are forgotten for the time being after debuting. Harshit was ignored for Zim and Tyagi never considered. Established quicks like Bumrah and Siraj have thrived though. And Prasidh, who had great ODI numbers during 2021, made his test debut during this period. But almost all the new pacers who were backed were medium pacers like Mukesh, Avesh, Arshdeep and Unadkat. 

 

We need to go back to the 2015 to 2021 mindset regarding genuine quicks. 

Edited July 18 by express bowling

[MediumPacer]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Good to see Indian fans start to hype Harshit.

Idk about others but I feel GG will back him. He has to

 

Looks ordinary.

[Lone Wolf]

30 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Looks ordinary.

He is a 20 year old in the video... Watch his recent clips 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

He is a 20 year old in the video... Watch his recent clips 

 

I remember this Ranji match as it was televised. It was a very slow pitch with no movement and wickets were not falling.

 

Harshit came and bowled 30 short balls in a row. And picked 3 wickets in that spell. Atleast 20 of those short balls looked quick for that slow pitch.

Edited July 18 by express bowling

[Kron]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Looks ordinary.

Good enough to bamboozle aus

[deepdynamo]

Nice thread @express bowling and some good discussion here.

 

One thing I don't like in Indian fast bowling institution is the ' pecking order' or queue. Everyone is in queue unless you are a Bumrah.

 

So Mukesh and Avesh will get all chances and not Akashdeep or Harshit because they are below them in queue. Deshpande is in Indian colors because he got selected in A tour so he followed a queue and now got his chance based on queue. No potential talent can break this queue.

 

There is no planning or vision or instinct - everybody has to follow a process. This is even true for India A tours as well. There is no selection based on potential. Its too mechanical sometime. Why can't someone like Himanshu be fast tracked after a good Ranji season for A tours based on potental. But not he is not in queue so he can't get it.

 

I think the next player that breaks this queue (after Bumrah) will be Mayank Yadav.

 

Edited July 18 by deepdynamo