Will Gambhir, Agarkar and their teams be able to identify and give chances to the next lot of Indian strike bowlers ?

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

 

One thing I don't like in Indian fast bowling institution is the ' pecking order' or queue. Everyone is in queue unless you are a Bumrah.

 

So Mukesh and Avesh will get all chances and not Akashdeep or Harshit because they are below them in queue.

 

 

 

Agree strongly.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, MediumPacer said:

Looks ordinary.

This was his second game.

 

He was struggling last year IPL as well with death bowling.

 

In one year he has grown tremendously in his skill and ability. Even in IPL, where he outbowled so many "experienced" pacers.

[singhvivek141]

43 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

Nice thread @express bowling and some good discussion here.

 

One thing I don't like in Indian fast bowling institution is the ' pecking order' or queue. Everyone is in queue unless you are a Bumrah.

 

So Mukesh and Avesh will get all chances and not Akashdeep or Harshit because they are below them in queue. Deshpande is in Indian colors because he got selected in A tour so he followed a queue and now got his chance based on queue. No potential talent can break this queue.

 

There is no planning or vision or instinct - everybody has to follow a process. This is even true for India A tours as well. There is no selection based on potential. Its too mechanical sometime. Why can't someone like Himanshu be fast tracked after a good Ranji season for A tours based on potental. But not he is not in queue so he can't get it.

 

I think the next player that breaks this queue (after Bumrah) will be Mayank Yadav.

 

 

We need the selectors who are passionate about the game.

Someone must have seen something in Sachin to give him debut at age of 16, Zak & Nehra at age of 21-22.

 

Chappell might be a failure as coach, but he too played a key role in finding our RP Singh, Sreesanth from nowhere and propelled them ahead from the herd.

 

Now we're in a dire situation where a 31 year old Mukesh Kumar is seen as the future, while a 22 year old Harshit Rana is not yet choosen for the matches vs Zimbabwe.

[Lord]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

We need the selectors who are passionate about the game.

Someone must have seen something in Sachin to give him debut at age of 16, Zak & Nehra at age of 21-22.

 

Chappell might be a failure as coach, but he too played a key role in finding our RP Singh, Sreesanth from nowhere and propelled them ahead from the herd.

 

Now we're in a dire situation where a 31 year old Mukesh Kumar is seen as the future, while a 22 year old Harshit Rana is not yet choosen for the matches vs Zimbabwe.

 

That's why I prefer foreign coaches. Our guys are biased

[express bowling]

Harshit Rana included in the ODI squad.

 

Perfect !

 

ODI is the best format to debut in international cricket for rookie pacers. 

 

It also means thal he is in their CT plans and plans for Australia.

 

Well done !

 

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Harshit Rana included in the ODI squad.

 

Perfect !

 

ODI is the best format to debut in international cricket for rookie pacers. 

 

It also means thal he is in their CT plans and plans for Australia.

 

Well done !

 

 

Happy for him bro...

Hope he does well and solve our long pending problem of a fast bowling allrounder who can bat at no 8.

 

Best news is no Changu, Mangu aka Avesh, Mukesh...Khaleel is decent than both of them.

[Lord]

36 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Harshit Rana included in the ODI squad.

 

Perfect !

 

ODI is the best format to debut in international cricket for rookie pacers. 

 

It also means thal he is in their CT plans and plans for Australia.

 

Well done !

 

 

Why so? The wickets are usually flat and batsmen are not in hurry so less chances of wickets.

[express bowling]

29 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Happy for him bro...

Hope he does well and solve our long pending problem of a fast bowling allrounder who can bat at no 8.

 

Best news is no Changu, Mangu aka Avesh, Mukesh...Khaleel is decent than both of them.

 

Bro, it is all we could have asked for.

 

Bumrah will replace Khaleel in CT. And Mayank will get in when fit.

 

Bumrah

Mayank

Harshit

Siraj

Arshdeep 

 

.... is a good group of pacers for LOIs. 

 

 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Why so? The wickets are usually flat and batsmen are not in hurry so less chances of wickets.

 

Because, in ODIs,  pacers can bowl in spells of 3 to 5 overs and build rhythm.

 

And can try to hit the same spot on the pitch over and over again and not try variations every ball as they are not attacked as frequently. 

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Best news is no Changu, Mangu aka Avesh, Mukesh...Khaleel is decent than both of them.

 

Expected this foresight from Gambhir.

[Rightarmfast]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

RAFbhai ... your views are generally very similar to mine regarding Fast bowling. 

 

But I beg to differ regarding atleast a part of what you said. It is true that there have always been stakeholders in Indian cricket who keep pushing their sifarishi candidates and always will.

 

But from the early 1990s to 2021 ... we saw roughly 50% to 60% of the quickest pacers of that era getting backed. 

 

■   Early 1990s .. Srinath was backed and had a long career. Ankola was backed too but was more interested in films. While Wassan and Zaidi were ignored.

 

■  Late 1990s to early 2000s ... Zaheer, Nehra and Agarkar were backed. Harvinder Singh. Johnson and the Rakesh Patel were ignored. We hosted a very quick attack of Nehra, Zaheer and Srinath in the 2003 WC.

 

■  Mid to late 2000s ... Munaf, Sreesanth, RP and then Ishant were backed. While VRV and Sudeep Tyagi were lost. This period was notorious for Indian pacers losing pace. Happened to Zaheer, Munaf and Sreesanth.

 

■  Early 2010s .. Umesh and Shami debuted and had long successful careers eventually.  Aaron got lost.

 

■  2015 to 2021 ... The golden period of Indian Fast bowling in test matches under Kohli, Arun and Shastri. Bumrah debuted in 2016 in T20Is and in 2018 in tests and is a legend now. Siraj was backed albeit 2 years too late. Prasidh debuted successfully but kept getting injured. Umesh and Ishant's test careers revived. Shami became a world class quick during this period.  Saini got lost. Tyagi was ignored after the Aussie tour of 2020-21. 

 

■  2022 to mid 2024 ... Not a single new 140 k+ pacer, who debuted during this period, was backed. Umran and Sen are forgotten for the time being after debuting. Harshit was ignored for Zim and Tyagi never considered. Established quicks like Bumrah and Siraj have thrived though. And Prasidh, who had great ODI numbers during 2021, made his test debut during this period. But almost all the new pacers who were backed were medium pacers like Mukesh, Avesh, Arshdeep and Unadkat. 

 

We need to go back to the 2015 to 2021 mindset regarding genuine quicks. 

There's only a selected period when some preference was given. More due to Ganguly, Kiran More, and Virat Kohli. Don't forget the Dhoni era saw a massive decline too, and that was vested interesed. What I am saying is, we are back to the same old times when people with vested interest are in business. 

Salil Ankola wasn't given much preference though. BCCI refused to pay for his injury. 

2015-21 was an era of Virat Kohli who truly understands one needs genuine quick battery.  

[Ultimate_Game]

6 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

Nice thread @express bowling and some good discussion here.

 

One thing I don't like in Indian fast bowling institution is the ' pecking order' or queue. Everyone is in queue unless you are a Bumrah.

 

So Mukesh and Avesh will get all chances and not Akashdeep or Harshit because they are below them in queue. Deshpande is in Indian colors because he got selected in A tour so he followed a queue and now got his chance based on queue. No potential talent can break this queue.

 

There is no planning or vision or instinct - everybody has to follow a process. This is even true for India A tours as well. There is no selection based on potential. Its too mechanical sometime. Why can't someone like Himanshu be fast tracked after a good Ranji season for A tours based on potental. But not he is not in queue so he can't get it.

 

I think the next player that breaks this queue (after Bumrah) will be Mayank Yadav.

 

 

We've made Indian team a sarkari daftar. We'vethis "queue" for players to get in.  And once they get in they remain there without performances (Avesh), and it's gotten to the point we'll have 40 year olds playing in ODI WC in 2027 when they couldn't even perform in their prime.

 

No wonder we underperform at intl level.

[putrevus]

Khaleel is making a comeback, what has  he done to deserve this, can he swing the ball back into RHB.He is useless with the bat.

 

Wonderful start by Gambhir.

Edited July 18 by putrevus

[Kron]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Bro, it is all we could have asked for.

 

Bumrah will replace Khaleel in CT. And Mayank will get in when fit.

 

Bumrah

Mayank

Harshit

Siraj

Arshdeep 

 

.... is a good group of pacers for LOIs. 

 

 

For Australia we need 2 more pacers bro. 

 

Hopefully himanshu gets picked. And someone like say kuldeep Sen

 

Look at England. They picked Bashir despite shite stats cause of data metrics. They analysed data points and felt his style of bowling will be suitable in Asia. And he did bowl better than the other spinner. 

 

Kuldeep sen same way can do well in Australia. High release. Good pace. Bounce. Movement.

[Kron]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Harshit Rana included in the ODI squad.

 

Perfect !

 

ODI is the best format to debut in international cricket for rookie pacers. 

 

It also means thal he is in their CT plans and plans for Australia.

 

Well done !

 

And what happened to prasidh bro. Any chance he can come back. He played terribly in SA I agree but I felt he played with an injury. Little tinkering and he might be useful as a back up seamer. He did bad in ranji too. Confidence gone I guess. He was shite though I must admit. That's one we got wrong badly. I really thought he would do well in test cricket. He had the tools. 

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

And what happened to prasidh bro. 

 

Still in rehab.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

For Australia we need 2 more pacers bro. 

 

Hopefully himanshu gets picked. And someone like say kuldeep Sen

 

Look at England. They picked Bashir despite shite stats cause of data metrics. They analysed data points and felt his style of bowling will be suitable in Asia. And he did bowl better than the other spinner. 

 

 

If fit, 3 pacers are sure for tests in Australia. Bumrah, Shami, Siraj.

 

They will surely try Harshit before this tour and see where he stands.

 

Then there is Akashdeep 

 

They may even try Mayank, for tests at Perth and Gabba, if he looks fit in the preparatory matches ahead.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Kron said:

Kuldeep sen same way can do well in Australia. High release. Good pace. Bounce. Movement.

 

True. He should be given a go in some preparatory matches. 

 

Bumrah

Shami

Siraj

Harshit .. can bat

Mayank .. if he looks fit

Akashdeep .. can bat

Sen

 

Nice pacer pool for tests in Australia.

[putrevus]

Siraj days as an effective bowler are done. He has lost too much of whatever little pace he had but consistency is still not there.He still tries too many things and leaks too many runs.

 

If Siraj is playing in Australia, I would not rate India's chances very high in winning that series.

Edited July 19 by putrevus

[Kron]

17 hours ago, putrevus said:

Siraj days as an effective bowler are done. He has lost too much of whatever little pace he had but consistency is still not there.He still tries too many things and leaks too many runs.

 

If Siraj is playing in Australia, I would not rate India's chances very high in winning that series.

Has gotten too arrogant after becoming famous 

[Gollum]

Siraj has no control over his emotions, even Sreesanth was more measured in his playing days.