Paris Olympics 2024 Discussion Thread

[9zaesm]

why is the decision taking soo long for Vignesh. I know there’s not much hope but is it purposely dragged! The more they keep postponing the more ppl are hopeful 

[zen]

1 minute ago, deathmonger said:

Athletes meet criteria set by the sporting bodies.

Those are likely to be the minimum qualification standards. 
 

The standards to win medals are different as I explained in my 100 meters example. 
 

[deathmonger]

3 minutes ago, saransh said:

Out of the 117 athletes India sent how many of them are truly world class? Maybe Neeraj, Vinesh, Manu and the hockey team. Rest all of them are international class or slightly worse and that is the reason why we won only 6 medals and no golds. When India graduates from sending more international class athletes to more world class athletes that's when we would be winning more golds and increasing our conversion rate.

It is easier to produce international class athletes than world class athletes and that's why I said India should first concentrate on increasing participation.

that is case with everyone.

 

most athletes do not medal. USA sent 592 and won 126. Ofc, a lot are team events but just to give an idea.

 

both things happen side by side. international class athletes and world class athletes both increase side by side. that's why we win more medals but contingent size is also getting bigger compared to pre 2010.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Those are likely to be the minimum qualification standards. 
 

The standards to win medals are different as I explained in my 100 meters example. 
 

most athletes sent by a country don't win medals.

 

that is the nature of sport.

[Kron]

Also to win medals consistently you need to master some of the rich niche sports. Rich sports include swimming diving, cycling, bmx somewhat, artistic swimming. 

 

[deathmonger]

2 minutes ago, Kron said:

Also to win medals consistently you need to master some of the rich niche sports. Rich sports include swimming diving, cycling, bmx somewhat, artistic swimming. 

 

shooting/wrestling already have a lot. need to consolidate that.

[vvvslaxman]

Vinesh Phogat CAS Verdict Live Updates: Legal team

Vinesh's legal team has French lawyers Joelle Monlouis, Estelle Ivanova, Habbine Estelle Kim and Charles Amson who helped her and the Indian Olympic Association (IOA) during the filing of the application. They have been provided to her by the Paris Bar and are handling the case pro bono. In addition, senior counsels Harish Salve and Vidushpat Singhania have also been roped in to help her in the case.

[zen]

20 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

most athletes sent by a country don't win medals.

 

that is the nature of sport.

But a country should send those athletes who are most likely to win medals based on how they meet or come close to meeting the highest standards.

 

The “standards” at home are not going to improve by participating in Olympics every 4 years,  but by training on the ground constantly in India to achieve or come close to the highest (not minimum) standards.

 

I get it that you think that to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase 

 

More athletes who meet the minimum standards should be sent (they meet the standards laid out so why not? If food is laid out on table, one should eat it whether he is hungry or not).
 

It is a gradual process where wealth and increase in the squad size (probably full of those around the minimum standards) would yield India X medals in 2080. 
 

Why because your university professor told you that everything can be modeled. Life works in a linear fashion.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2024 by zen

[Kron]

Just now, zen said:

But a country should sent those athletes who are most likely to win medals based on how they meet or come close to meeting the highest standards.

 

The “standards” at home are not going to improve by participating in Olympics every 4 years,  but my training on the ground constantly in India to achieve or come close to the highest (not minimum) standards.

 

I get it that you think that to win more medals)

 

GDP per capita should increase 

 

More athletes who meet the minimum standards should be sent. 
 

It is a gradual process where wealth and increase the squad size would yield India X medals in 2080. 
 

Why because your university professor told you that everything can modeled. Life works in a linear fashion.

 

 

I mean despite us having best talents and dominating 

bilaterals for last 10 years it took us till 2024 to win a icc title since about 2013. It's mental fragility that's stopping us. 

[vvvslaxman]

India is a country. But it has a lot of mini countries within it :) Don't blame states like Haryana, North east state for pathetic sports development in some of the states. They also represent military more.

 

 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Kron said:

I mean despite us having best talents and dominating 

bilaterals for last 10 years it took us till 2024 to win a icc title since about 2013. It's mental fragility that's stopping us. 

In cricket, situation can change on per ball basis. 
 

What mental strength would you need to be able to run 100 mts in X, jump Y meters, etc. 
 

In school, I was a champion in 100 mts and high jump. In hockey, I represented my district and was cool under pressure. PS not to forget table tennis and chess.

 

But in cricket, I used to get nervous at times. I was known as a great fielder. My clothes were usually dirty and my elbows injured due to diving on bad grounds.  However, in a match, I could not hold on to any catch (probably dropped like 2). Those catches I would catch in a blink of an eye. What is about pressure in cricket? I still feel sad about it.

Edited August 12, 2024 by zen

[Kron]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

That cricket where things can change on per ball basis. 
 

What mental strength would you need to be able to run 100 mts in X, jump Y meters, etc. 
 

In school, I was champion in 100 mts and high jump. In hockey, I represented my district and was cool under pressure.

 

But in cricket, I used to get nervous at times. I was known as a great fielder. My clothes were usually dirty and my elbows injured due to diving on bad grounds but in a match, I could not hold on to any catch (probably dropped like 2). Those catches I would catch in a blink of an eye. What is about pressure in cricket? 

I meant for the other mainstream sports where we do well generally speaking. Amongst the top 5 to top 10. 

 

But yes we have some way to go for athletics 100 m 200 and mid distance running. Also high Jump and pole vault. We need foreign coaches to foster development in those areas of track and field. A dedicated state or 2 that focuses purely on such events. 

 

For those 4/5 track and field events we are lacking the ability to nurture and develop talent. Anju bobby George should who fnished 3rd in high jump for a world championship ship event should have inspired young athletes. Just wasn't meant to be at the time cause we did severely lack funding. 

 

Now we need to start targeting such events and as you said, our athletes should aim to meet olymlic standards. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by Kron

[Lone Wolf]

Damn Vietnam has a better HDI than India & damn good manufacturing based economy & right now our biggest competition in Asia but absolutely shameless performance in Olympics with 0 medals

@rollingstoned what's the reason here bro

[deathmonger]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

But a country should sent those athletes who are most likely to win medals based on how they meet or come close to meeting the highest standards.

 

The “standards” at home are not going to improve by participating in Olympics every 4 years,  but by training on the ground constantly in India to achieve or come close to the highest (not minimum) standards.

 

I get it that you think that to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase 

 

More athletes who meet the minimum standards should be sent (they meet the standards laid out so why not? If food is laid out on table, one should eat it whether he is hungry or not).
 

It is a gradual process where wealth and increase in the squad size (probably full of those around the minimum standards) would yield India X medals in 2080. 
 

Why because your university professor told you that everything can be modeled. Life works in a linear fashion.

 

 

No one sends anyone.

 

You seem to be under the delusion that by "training" at home and "trying" to meet olympic medal standards there will be some athletes produced by magic who can start winning medals at the Olympics.

 

Let me put it down point by point so that even "you" can understand:

 

1. As india gets richer, there will be more money put in sports and infra which means that more athletes will be able to qualify for the olympics.

 

2. These guys aren't good enough to win but by going out there and merely participating and interacting with the true elite, they know what it takes

 

3. After the end of their sports life cycle, when india has become richer and there is more sports infra compared to when they started out, they go into the system and with the knowledge gained in step 2 help improve the infra/systems and pass it on to the next gen.

 

repeat steps 1-3 till they become medal contenders.

 

Pullela Gopichand in badminton. Bharat Arun in fast bowling. Jaspal Rana in shooting. If these guys never went and played internationally, they would never have been able to train the next gen.

 

Also a byproduct of this is that both contingent sizes will increase as does medal winners (as some sports will be later on in the cycle compared to others)

 

Your idea is the dumbest I've heard. Keep practicing at home till you are good enough and only then send. Using that logic India should have started playing cricket from the 2000s when they were good. But here's the thing - they became good in 2000s because of the infra/system set up from the early 20s.

 

If India played amongst themselves etc they would never have become good in cricket.

 

 

[zen]

1 minute ago, Kron said:

I meant for the other mainstream sports where we do well generally speaking. Amongst the top 5 to top 10. 

 

But yes we have some way to go for athletics 100 m 200 and mid distance running. Also high Jump and pole vault. We need foreign coaches to foster development in those areas of track and field. A dedicated state or 2 that focuses purely on such events. 

For my info as I am out of touch, in which sport, we are doing well and close to the highest world standards?

 

I know that this time we won medals in javelin, hockey, wrestling, and shooting (maybe boxing?). 

 

Those would be the logical areas to focus heavily on. 

[deathmonger]

4 minutes ago, Kron said:

I meant for the other mainstream sports where we do well generally speaking. Amongst the top 5 to top 10. 

 

But yes we have some way to go for athletics 100 m 200 and mid distance running. Also high Jump and pole vault. We need foreign coaches to foster development in those areas of track and field. A dedicated state or 2 that focuses purely on such events. 

 

For those 4/5 track and field events we are lacking the ability to nurture and develop talent. Anju bobby George should who fnished 3rd in high jump for a world championship ship event should have inspired young athletes. Just wasn't meant to be at the time cause we did severely lack funding. 

 

Now we need to start targeting such events and as you said, our athletes should aim to meet olymlic standards. 

Anju herself is training Shaili Singh

[Kron]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

For my info as I am out of touch, in which sport, we are doing well and close to the highest world standards?

 

I know that this time we won medals in javelin, hockey, wrestling, and shooting (maybe boxing?). 

 

Those would be the logical areas to focus heavily on. 

Yea pretty much. Also add badminton and t tennis.

 

Track and field we can focus on discus too as it's somewhat similar to javelin. Transferable skills. 

 

But high jump long jump pole vault 100 m 200 m and mid distance running is where we are lacking. I am certain we can find people with the right physical traits but I am not sure if we have the right infrastructure in place to excel in thos events yet. Will take Time. We need like a IIT for sport. Indian institute of sport where all top tier athletes get proper training for track and field events. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Kron said:

Yea pretty much. Also add badminton and t tennis.

 

Track and field we can focus on discus too as it's somewhat similar to javelin. Transferable skills. 

 

But high jump long jump pole vault 100 m 200 m and mid distance running is where we are lacking. I am certain we can find people with the right physical traits but I am not sure if we have the right infrastructure in place to excel in thos events yet. Will take Time. We need like a IIT for sport. Indian institute of sport where all top tier athletes get proper training for track and field events. 

 

 

You ahve to have a national event for each category.  District event -> STate event -> National event

[Kron]

4 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Anju herself is training Shaili Singh

She is a lovely elegant lady. Very strong and mentally tough lady. She actually came to Australia once and I have seen her in an event. Humble too. 

 

We can certainly do well in such events but I am just understanding why we are struggling in those 4 5 track and field events. 100 m I can understand but mid distance running, long jump high jump etc we should be unearthing talents tbh.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Kron said:

She is a lovely elegant lady. Very strong and mentally tough lady. She actually came to Australia once and I have seen her in an event. Humble too. 

 

We can certainly do well in such events but I am just understanding why we are struggling in those 4 5 track and field events. 100 m I can understand but mid distance running, long jump high jump etc we should be unearthing talents tbh.

you have to unearth some one super young and then use diet/training etc to ensure they grow the way they are supposed to.

 

it was already too late for sable etc.

 

ind only started medaling in junior stuff in wrestling, olympics, athletics in the last 4-5 years.

 

that generation will start to come of age in the next 10 years.

 

like in hockey - the 2016 junior wc winning team led to wins in 2021 and 2024

 

and in cricket - batches of 16,18,20 have come into the indian team and made it stronger (still a bit aways from their peak)