Rank them purely on test batting

[Nash]

18 hours ago, Majestic said:

Away averages :-

 

Imran - 33

Stokes - 32.5

Botham - 32

Jadeja - 31.8

Kapil - 26

 

Imran still has a better away average than rest despite all the home conditions accusations.

 

is it batting average? I was talking about Bowling average. About batting, Kapil was mainly playing at no 7. Imran khan was playing no 6. The batting average different is because Imran had to play more often because their batting was fragile. Kapil has less opportunity because Indian batting was better most of the time.

 

ODI ( can't find Test)

Kapil batting average : 

https://www.cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/graph/847383-ODI-12.php

Imran batting average 

https://www.cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/graph/984491-ODI-12.php

Edited July 27 by Nash

[Chakdephatte]

17 hours ago, Nash said:

 

is it batting average? I was talking about Bowling average. About batting, Kapil was mainly playing at no 7. Imran khan was playing no 6. The batting average different is because Imran had to play more often because their batting was fragile. Kapil has less opportunity because Indian batting was better most of the time.

 

ODI ( can't find Test)

Kapil batting average : 

https://www.cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/graph/847383-ODI-12.php

Imran batting average 

https://www.cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/graph/984491-ODI-12.php

 

You are funny. 

[goose]

very few in a position to answer that unless you are touching 60 years old

[coffee_rules]

On 7/26/2024 at 3:30 PM, Majestic said:

Ben Stokes - Avg 35( RPI - 34)

Ravindra Jadeja - Avg 36( RPI - 29)

Imran Khan - Avg 37( RPI - 30)

Kapil Dev - Avg 31( RPI - 28)

Ian Botham - Avg 33( RPI - 32)

 

Kapil Dev

Stokes

Botham

Jadeja

imran

 

Imran was an accumulator like Jadeja. Stokes has the best technique, but weak against spin. Nobody can come close to intent with Kapil and Botham

[Muloghonto]

On 7/26/2024 at 1:30 PM, Majestic said:

Ben Stokes - Avg 35( RPI - 34)

Ravindra Jadeja - Avg 36( RPI - 29)

Imran Khan - Avg 37( RPI - 30)

Kapil Dev - Avg 31( RPI - 28)

Ian Botham - Avg 33( RPI - 32)

 

Imran

Kapil

Botham

Stokes
Jadeja

 

[putrevus]

Botham,

Stokes,

Kapil

Jadeja

Chris Cairns

 

The most overrrated allrounder in history is Imran Khan.He was never a game changer with bat.Botham or Kapil on other hand could win matches with bat on their own.

 

 

[Kron]

12 hours ago, putrevus said:

Botham,

Stokes,

Kapil

Jadeja

Chris Cairns

 

The most overrrated allrounder in history is Imran Khan.He was never a game changer with bat.Botham or Kapil on other hand could win matches with bat on their own.

 

 

Hey man you are wrong here. Severely under estimating how good imrans batting is.

 

In odi I agree yes he was not that good. .but in tests he was a top 3

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Kron said:

Hey man you are wrong here. Severely under estimating how good imrans batting is.

 

In odi I agree yes he was not that good. .but in tests he was a top 3

No he is not, Number 6 or 7 has to do well when top order fails too.Imran became an  accumulator after 1987 when he no longer was a great bowler .

 

Kapil Dev could save India from follow on when top order  failed which led to tied test in 1986 in Chennai

Or he could score 89 on his way to fastest century when he ran out of partners in lords 1982 .

 

Kapil could Walkout to crease when team is tottering at 31/6 that too against rampaging Allan Donald  in SA and score 129 when next highest score is 17.

 

If India had bowling to support that innings like Bob willis supported Ian Botham with 8 wickets in Headlngley, it would have become a legendary innings.

 

Kapil could score against any type of bowling attack on his day. He almost scored two hundreds  against fearsome fast bowling of WI in WI in 1983.

 

Botham was beast with the bat.

 

Imran was more closer to Hadlee with bat than he was to Botham or Kapil.

Edited July 30 by putrevus

[Kron]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No he is not, 

How so? 

He has better batting average than kapil etc. He also performed against top teams. And scored vs india. People forget how good of a bowler he was in tests. He was better than Waqar. Only behind wasim for Pakistan. 

[The Hound]

Stokes > Jadeja 

 

Never saw the rest of the three bat but looking at stats and from what I've read Botham seems the best

 

[R!TTER]

IK's overrated having batted on arguably the flattest decks, at home, & easily the most biased home umps ever 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

How so? 

He has better batting average than kapil etc. He also performed against top teams. And scored vs india. People forget how good of a bowler he was in tests. He was better than Waqar. Only behind wasim for Pakistan. 

Look above in regards to Imran's batting. Moreover he scored 4 hundreds that after 1987 after he first retired and came back.Those hundreds were scored mostly on flat decks.

 

In regards to Imran's bowling 

 

I did analysis on his bowling once.

 

For first 30 tests he averaged 30.He took 119 wickets

 

Second 30 tests he became  out of the world bowler with majority of tests played at home with avg of 15.23 with 163 wickets

 

Last 28 tests he became very ordinary bowler but had decent stats 80 wickets @avg of 27.00 but that decent average is misleading as he had Wasim Akram and then Waqar to take the load off.He was picking and chosing spots to bowl just like Dhoni did with bat when others set up the target, he would come in and hit winning shot.

 

Imran had advantage of reverse swing and home umpiring which guys like Kapil, Botham or Hadlee did not have during their career. Was he better bowler than Kapil dev, I would say so but we never know if Kapil Dev knew about reverse swing how his career figures would have ended up.

 

Imran had luxury of picking and chosing the series he wanted to play.He played 88 test in 20 plus years.Kapil never missed a test in his 15 years.Nor did he have luxury of having Wasim Akram and Waqar carrying the load.

 

There is no way in hell Imran was better batsman than either Kapil Dev or Botham.

 

Stats are very misleading , they never tell whole story.Imran is prime example of it.As Sunil Gavaskar always said Kapil with his batting talent should have scored 2000 plus more runs but he was being asked to bowl so many overs even in 1992.Even at home he did not have spinners taking the load off.Maninder and Shastri were spinners during Kapil's era.

 

[Kron]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Look above in regards to Imran's batting. Moreover he scored 4 hundreds that after 1987 after he first retired and came back.Those hundreds were scored mostly on flat decks.

 

In regards to Imran's bowling 

 

I did analysis on his bowling once.

 

For first 30 tests he averaged 30.He took 119 wickets

 

Second 30 tests he became  out of the world bowler with majority of tests played at home with avg of 15.23 with 163 wickets

 

Last 28 tests he became very ordinary bowler but had decent stats 80 wickets @avg of 27.00 but that decent average is misleading as he had Wasim Akram and then Waqar to take the load off.He was picking and chosing spots to bowl just like Dhoni did with bat when others set up the target, he would come in and hit winning shot.

 

Imran had advantage of reverse swing and home umpiring which guys like Kapil, Botham or Hadlee did not have during their career. Was he better bowler than Kapil dev, I would say so but we never know if Kapil Dev knew about reverse swing how his career figures would have ended up.

 

Imran had luxury of picking and chosing the series he wanted to play.He played 88 test in 20 plus years.Kapil never missed a test in his 15 years.Nor did he have luxury of having Wasim Akram and Waqar carrying the load.

 

There is no way in hell Imran was better batsman than either Kapil Dev or Botham.

 

Stats are very misleading , they never tell whole story.Imran is prime example of it.As Sunil Gavaskar always said Kapil with his batting talent should have scored 2000 plus more runs but he was being asked to bowl so many overs even in 1992.Even at home he did not have spinners taking the load off.Maninder and Shastri were spinners during Kapil's era.

 

Fair enough. Imran at his peak had sarfraz to support but when he declined he had the 2 Ws.

 

So would you say imran is behind both kapil and Botham as a AR?

[putrevus]

17 minutes ago, Kron said:

Fair enough. Imran at his peak had sarfraz to support but when he declined he had the 2 Ws.

 

So would you say imran is behind both kapil and Botham as a AR?

I give Imran one big credit which any  bowler should learn  He started as a medium pacer but turned himself into fast bowler by changing his action and working hard.He was not a natural athlete but he did gain express pace.Maybe he is only medium pacer who became express bowler.

 

I heard Javed once talk about Imran bowling for hours every day in Lahore.

 

Pakistanis created a myth that reverse swing can be effective only at express pace.Sarfraz was trundler and he was the pioneer of reverse swing.Kapil sure would have done very well with reverse swing.

 

 

[Kron]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I give Imran one big credit which any  bowler should learn  He started as a medium pacer but turned himself into fast bowler by changing his action and working hard.He was not a natural athlete but he did gain express pace.Maybe he is only medium pacer who became express bowler.

 

I heard Javed once talk about Imran bowling for hours every day in Lahore.

 

Pakistanis created a myth that reverse swing can be effective only at express pace.Sarfraz was trundler and he was the pioneer of reverse swing.Kapil sure would have done very well with reverse swing.

 

 

Sarfraz not a trundler loool

 

For those times he was fast medium I would say.

Edited July 30 by Kron

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Kron said:

Sarfraz not a trundler loool

 

For those times he was fast medium I would say.

If Sarfraz was fast medium then Kapil Dev was express.