Octopussy (1983)

[zen]

13 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Live and Let Die was his best film, it had the hardest edge, the rest were too campy. I liked the voodoo angle with Baron Samedi and Jane Seymour was stunning. 

LALD is fun. I used to like it a lot but now find the first half a mixed bag esp. the Harlem segment. It really gets interesting for me once Bond lands in New Orleans after escaping from Kananga’s Island. Overall, it remains an enjoyable film!

[zen]

Below is how I have currently (2024) segmented Bond films. Films are in the order of release within the tiers: 

 

Tier 1: Dr. No (1962), From Russia with Love (1963), Goldfinger (1964), On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (1969), The Spy Who Loved Me (1977), For Your Eyes Only (1981), Octopussy (1983), The Living Daylights (1987), and Casino Royale (2006)

Tier 2: Thunderball (1965), You Only Live Twice (1967), Live and Let Die (1973), License to Kill (1989), GoldenEye (1995), The World is Not Enough (1999), Skyfall (2012), and No Time to Die (2021)

 

Tier 3: Diamonds are Forever (1971), The Man with the Golden Gun (1974), Moonraker (1979), A View to a Kill (1985), Tomorrow Never Dies (1997), Die Another Day (2002), Quantum of Solace (2008), and SPECTRE (2015)

 

SPECTRE is my most watched film in cinemas. I watched it for 5 times. Mission Impossible 7 is another film that I have watched for 5 times in the cinemas. 

[Ranvir]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:06 AM, zen said:

LALD is fun. I used to like it a lot but now find the first half a mixed bag esp. the Harlem segment. It really gets interesting for me once Bond lands in New Orleans after escaping from Kananga’s Island. Overall, it remains an enjoyable film!

Overall Roger Moore's films were just tapping into what was popular at the time. 

 

Live and Let Die (Blaxploitation) 

 

The Man With The Golden Gun (Bruce Lee and Martial Arts Films) 

 

Moonraker(Star Wars) 

[Ranvir]

This is when you know Roger Moore had taken it too far. 

 

 

Thankfully they went back to a more serious tone for View To A Kill which is one of my favourites, the only problem being that Moore was far too old at that point. 

Edited August 13 by Ranvir

[zen]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

This is when you know Roger Moore had taken it too far. 

 

 

I think this one of tense segments of the film. Octopussy’s circus (a smuggling operation) goes to West Berlin from East Berlin. Unknown to Octopussy, the jewels have been switched with a nuke, whose timer is ticking.
 

Bond, who has uncovered the plan, is being chased by almost everyone. He is cool enough to dress up as a clown to defuse the bomb.
 

At first, no one believed Bond, then he had to reveal himself to seek Octopussy’s help. There was a lot at stake (her smuggling operation getting busted) for Octopussy, but she decided to trust Bond.
 

This segment is well written. I enjoy it! It feels like a short story in itself. 
 

To get the job done, Bond can do to any extent. Post the pre-title segment, 009 is shown escaping from the circus, pursued by the twins, dressed up as a clown too. 

 

In Octopussy, Bond relies on disguises a lot. In the pre-title sequence, he is dressed up as Colonel Toro. On the train, as one of the “twins”. And so on. 

In From Russia with Love, we see a gypsy show, which is similar to the use of circus here, and of course also a train segment. Both these films have a Hitchcockian feel. 

 

Edited August 13 by zen

[Laaloo]

Her: Naam me kya likha hai

Her: Octopussy

Edited August 13 by Laaloo

[coffee_rules]

After Octopussy, people felt that the quality of Bond movies had gone down drastically. Sean Connery had made a comeback as Bond in Never say never again, a remake of his earlier Tnunderball. NSNA was not a real fare from the franchise. I don’t know how it passed all copyright regulation. NSNA is a classic Bond movie with hi-tech underwater action scenes. I liked it much better than Octopussy. Bond sleeps with a lot of women in countries where he visits. He comes to India and sleeps with goras only. Very choosy he is with women. 

[zen]

33 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

NSNA was not a real fare from the franchise. I don’t know how it passed all copyright regulation.

Because the writer McClory had worked with Fleming on Thunderball. IIRC, he won a law suit that allowed him to remake Thunderball. One of the reasons, why SPECTRE and Blofeld were not being used by later Bond films. 
 

In For Your Eyes Only’s pre-title sequences, Blofeld is not named but “implied”. 

 

Now the issues have been resolved so we saw the movie SPECTRE with Blofeld making an official comeback.

Edited August 13 by zen

[zen]

42 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

After Octopussy, people felt that the quality of Bond movies had gone down drastically.

 

I don’t know what “people” felt when Octopussy was released. Now, it  is among the favorites for many!
 

Even Dalton films were not that much appreciated relatively speaking at the time of their release. “People” even felt that License to Kill did not feel like a Bond film. 

Edited August 13 by zen

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, zen said:

I don’t know what “people” felt when Octopussy was released. Now, it  is among the favorites for many!
 

Even Dalton films were not that much appreciated relatively speaking at the time of their release. “People” even felt that License to Kill did not feel like a Bond film. 

My dad was a big James Bond movie fan loyal to Sean Connery. He said this and probably believed it too. Checking on Wiki,  NSNA released just a few months after Octopussy might have been shot in parallel. I guess the makers  preferred Sean Connery over Roger Moore playing Bond. Personally, I didn’t like Oxtopussy , too much stereotyping of India true to Hollywood movies of that time. 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

My dad was a big James Bond movie fan loyal to Sean Connery. He said this and probably believed it too. Checking on Wiki,  NSNA released just a few months after Octopussy might have been shot in parallel. I guess the makers  preferred Sean Connery over Roger Moore playing Bond. Personally, I didn’t like Oxtopussy , too much stereotyping of India true to Hollywood movies of that time. 

Never Say Never Again was a rival film. Moore did not want to play Bond anymore but because Connery was doing an unofficial Bond film, Moore got a big pay check to return as Bond. 
 

What’s wrong with India’s portrayal. Many people love Octopussy because of the India segment!

[coffee_rules]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

Never Say Never Again was a rival film. Moore did not want to play Bond anymore but because Connery was doing an unofficial Bond film, Moore got a big pay check to return as Bond. 
 

What’s wrong with India’s portrayal. Many people love Octopussy because of the India segment!

Contemporary portrayal of India, Indians showing them as primitive and poor, same treatment even in Slumdog. All stereotypes - Tiger hunting, don’t think it was allowed in India in 1983, rope trick, snake charmers, nautch girls, villains in forts, etc. it was all cringe as it is. Maybe Ian Fleming wrote it in the 50s India. Certainly didn’t feel like 80s India

[zen]

41 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Contemporary portrayal of India, Indians showing them as primitive and poor, same treatment even in Slumdog. All stereotypes - Tiger hunting, don’t think it was allowed in India in 1983, rope trick, snake charmers, nautch girls, villains in forts, etc. it was all cringe as it is. Maybe Ian Fleming wrote it in the 50s India. Certainly didn’t feel like 80s India

It is not written by Fleming. The Fleming material in the film is “The Property of a Lady” segment, along w/ the story of the interaction b/w Bond & Octopussy’s father. 
 

Rajasthan, where I used to go frequently, was (or even is now) like that. In “western” terms, even Mumbai would appear relatively speaking primitive esp. in the 80s (with Ambassadors, Fiats, Jeeps, etc., driving around).
 

Places like India, Egypt, Turkey, etc, are shown for their ancient culture (a key reason to shoot there). Usually, such a cultural or historical or tourism location (Asia, Africa, Caribbean, Eastern Europe, South America, etc) is paired with one in Western Europe and/or USA. For e.g. India & Germany here; Egypt & Italy in The Spy; Austria, Morocco & Afghanistan in the Daylights; etc. 
 

These films are not documentaries. A hunting sequence can be shown anywhere in the world irrespective of what’s allowed. Much like killing people is not allowed anywhere but murders are shown in films. As they say, it is the “reel” world! 

 

Edited August 13 by zen

[coffee_rules]

8 hours ago, zen said:

It is not written by Fleming. The Fleming material in the film is “The Property of a Lady” segment, along w/ the story of the interaction b/w Bond & Octopussy’s father. 
 

Rajasthan, where I used to go frequently, was (or even is now) like that. In “western” terms, even Mumbai would appear relatively speaking primitive esp. in the 80s (with Ambassadors, Fiats, Jeeps, etc., driving around).
 

Places like India, Egypt, Turkey, etc, are shown for their ancient culture (a key reason to shoot there). Usually, such a cultural or historical or tourism location (Asia, Africa, Caribbean, Eastern Europe, South America, etc) is paired with one in Western Europe and/or USA. For e.g. India & Germany here; Egypt & Italy in The Spy; Austria, Morocco & Afghanistan in the Daylights; etc. 
 

These films are not documentaries. A hunting sequence can be shown anywhere in the world irrespective of what’s allowed. Much like killing people is not allowed anywhere but murders are shown in films. As they say, it is the “reel” world! 

 

Seems like a defense of your guilty pleasure. I didn’t like IJ and the Temple of the Doom for the same reason. Dishonesty in portrayal. Egyptians are not portrayed as this bad in Raiders/Spy who loved me. It’s just about soft power which we didn’t have then. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Seems like a defense of your guilty pleasure. I didn’t like IJ and the Temple of the Doom for the same reason. Dishonesty in portrayal. Egyptians are not portrayed as this bad in Raiders/Spy who loved me. It’s just about soft power which we didn’t have then. 

OP is not a guilty pleasure but a film that I like because of its quality. Temples of Doom is also a fun ride.
 

Well, there would be someone in Egypt like you who thinks Egypt is not portrayed properly and that there is nothing wrong with how India or X is portrayed. 
 

This is an unnecessary complain!

 

[zen]

India has many facets. We cannot be saying that only x facet is good.
 

The issue is that the British created a narrative that everything local is outdated, everything British is modern (and therefore superior). 
 

So for e.g. people found wearing traditional Indian dresses as a sign of being backward. Not knowing English as a sign of being under educated. And so on. 
 

In many Indian films, we get to see storylines where when the hero arrives to Mumbai from a village, he becomes modern by ditching his traditional outfit and by wearing western clothes, going to clubs, and speaking in English. 
 

Why can’t we take also pride in our rural culture and that the country has many facets? There are tons of good Indian films that take place in rural settings.

 

Why is it that India has to be portrayed in a certain way to the west? Why are we constantly trying to seek approval from the west?

 

PS

 

^ The naive “poor” villager is in traditional Indian dress, while the educated modern rich Indian is wearing a suit. And so on.
 

When the villager becomes “rich”, “educated” and “modern”, his dressing style would change as well:
 

 

With such narratives created in many Indian films, some of us may unnecessarily feel as if India is not portrayed well if a foreign film takes place in a relatively rural (or historical) setting in India.

Edited August 14 by zen

[goose]

the best extended mix version of the best bond soundtrack ever :

 

 

 

[zen]

6 hours ago, goose said:

the best extended mix version of the best bond soundtrack ever :

 

 

 

It is among the best Bond title songs. Bond songs used to top charts but did not manage to do so relatively speaking after “Nobody Does It Better” from the Spy Who Loved Me. This song brought back Bond title songs back to the top of the charts!

[zen]

23 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Thankfully they went back to a more serious tone for View To A Kill which is one of my favourites, the only problem being that Moore was far too old at that point. 

A View to a Kill is based on (or inspired by) Goldfinger. 
 

It is known for a few missteps such as a song being inserted during a chase in the pre title sequence (Glen probably still thinks of it as an innovation), the Bond girl’s performance (and her mom was said to be younger than Moore), some lazy action sequences, the snoring tape, etc. 
 

However, it also has positives such as Barry’s score which salvages many moments. Location in France is good. The fight on the Golden Gate Bridge is memorable too. Bond breathing out of tire underwater is cool too.

You can turn Moore being old into a positive if you look at it as an adventure of an aged Bond. He is even paired with an old Sir Godrey Tibbett (played by Patrick Macnee). 
 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Tina Turner for Golden Eye is a big hit, I like it the best

 

I don’t agree with this ranking of Bond movie title songs

 

https://variety.com/lists/james-bond-theme-songs-ranked-no-time-to-die-music/sam-smith-writings-on-the-wall-from-spectre-2015/