Duleep Trophy

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

This is the v.reason Ind does not find a proper aggressive fast bowler and spinners who can turn it 90 degrees.

Any one trying for pace and aggression is rubbished any1 trying to turn the ball at some pace is talked down.

 

Pacers do not have pace and spinners does not spin, no disrespect but this kind of system produces Bishnoi and Axar kind of spinners who does not turn much and pacers like Vinay kumar, Mukesh Kumar etc

 

Bishnoi turns the ball a lot but he isn't a leg spinner. He is a googly bowler. His googly turns a lot.

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, tapandrun said:

This is the v.reason Ind does not find a proper aggressive fast bowler and spinners who can turn it 90 degrees.

Any one trying for pace and aggression is rubbished any1 trying to turn the ball at some pace is talked down.

 

Pacers do not have pace and spinners does not spin, no disrespect but this kind of system produces Bishnoi and Axar kind of spinners who does not turn much and pacers like Vinay kumar, Mukesh Kumar etc

 

Nobody stopped Umesh Yadav from bowling fast, nor did they stop Varun aaron to bowl fast.

 

Fast bowlers bowling 150 kmph are very rare.So system is not stopping youngsters from bowling fast.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Nobody stopped Umesh Yadav from bowling fast, nor did they stop Varun aaron to bowl fast.

 

Fast bowlers bowling 150 kmph are very rare. So system is not stopping youngsters from bowling fast.

Not stopping, but it wasn't encouraging either.

Salgaonkar, Kailash Gattani, Obaid Kamaal, Rajesh Yadav (Shivlal yadav's brother), Salil Ankola, Yograj Singh...all were fast. Neither got backing.

[tapandrun]

31 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Nobody stopped Umesh Yadav from bowling fast, nor did they stop Varun aaron to bowl fast.

 

Fast bowlers bowling 150 kmph are very rare.So system is not stopping youngsters from bowling fast.

 

V.sure Umesh played for Ind because of IPL, if there was no IPL star batters would be doing a passing references like this guy they played with was fast during such and such season and then got injured or something like it. to get him to play as regular ind player he needed a coach and  a captain who were hell bent to get good fast bowlers in the side.

When did Umesh and Varun found any kind of support frm the system ? Varun till v.recently bowled 140+ kmph, was he intnl quality ?? nt sure but work could have been done on him to get him ready. 

Can recall a certain after match Interview Dhoni said they have asked Umesh to cut down spectrum or something on the line asked him to bowl bit slow.

After Ind dropped few catches off Munaf in his 1st few test matched Dravid said its because they  have not fielded in slips for a 140 kmph bowler

 

Not talking abt 150 kmph  bowlers and do not think there were many 150 kmph bowler who were rotting in Ind cricket. But it was not like there were not any 140 kmph capable bowlers ,Just telling the system is not promoting faster bowlers.

Not long back 140 kmph bowler were hard to find in Ind, like these days where one find fake videos (click bait)claiming certain Ind bowler is 150 kmph 10-12 years back there were fake videos claiming of certain Ind bowler is 140+ kmph.

 

Ind cricketing system talks too much about line and length do nt think there was any bowler before Bhumrah, Shami and Bhuvi who could bowl good line length for a period of time.  

 

The idea of fast bowling was and still is to bowl floaty kind of fuller length and wait for batter to poke at it. Idea of seam bowling is so new to Ind cricket that when Aus cricketers were talking about bowling heavy ball or hitting the seam hard ,faster than you think they though it was some alien concept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by tapandrun

[putrevus]

36 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Not stopping, but it wasn't encouraging either.

Salgaonkar, Kailash Gattani, Obaid Kamaal, Rajesh Yadav (Shivlal yadav's brother), Salil Ankola, Yograj Singh...all were fast. Neither got backing.

 

 

I agree, I feel coaches/media  and captains have to be taught the importance of fast bowlers and how to preserve them and guide  them to keep bowling fast.

 

Dhoni had  very little understanding on fast bowling.Unfortunately Rohit Sharma is trending more like Dhoni.

 

Players also need to take some responsibility.Guy like Umesh had everything, when I saw him first, I thought he could be India's Dale Steyn.He could bowl fast all day  and was one of the fittest players.But he never learned not be consistent.He should have 300 plus test wickets easily .

 

Tyagi and Umran, why are they not coming thru. What happened to Kamlesh Nagarkoti.I don't think we can blame system for their lack of development.

 

All these three have been given chances. We also need to understand some fast bowlers are injury prone.Their bodies simply cannot handle the stress.Pattinson is prime example,That guy from Pakistan I forgot his name.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by putrevus

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

V.sure Umesh played for Ind because of IPL, if there was no IPL star batters would be doing a passing references like this guy they played with was fast during such and such season and then got injured or something like it. to get him to play as regular ind player he needed a coach and  a captain who were hell bent to get good fast bowlers in the side.

When did Umesh and Varun found any kind of support frm the system ? Varun till v.recently bowled 140+ kmph, was he intnl quality ?? nt sure but work could have been done on him to get him ready. 

Can recall a certain after match Interview Dhoni said they have asked Umesh to cut down spectrum or something on the line asked him to bowl bit slow.

After Ind dropped few catches off Munaf in his 1st few test matched Dravid said its because they  have not fielded in slips for a 140 kmph bowler

 

Not talking abt 150 kmph  bowlers and do not think there were many 150 kmph bowler who were rotting in Ind cricket. But it was not like there were not any 140 kmph capable bowlers ,Just telling the system is not promoting faster bowlers.

Not long back 140 kmph bowler were hard to find in Ind, like these days where one find fake videos (click bait)claiming certain Ind bowler is 150 kmph 10-12 years back there were fake videos claiming of certain Ind bowler is 140+ kmph.

 

Ind cricketing system talks too much about line and length do nt think there was any bowler before Bhumrah, Shami and Bhuvi who could bowl good line length for a period of time.  

 

The idea of fast bowling was and still is to bowl floaty kind of fuller length and wait for batter to poke at it. Idea of seam bowling is so new to Ind cricket that when Aus cricketers were talking about bowling heavy ball or hitting the seam hard ,faster than you think they though it was some alien concept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I don't think bowlers who touch 140 k occasionally are fast bowlers. They are medium pacers only.India has produced dime a dozen medium pacers.

 

You need more attributes to be called  as fast bowlers than occasionally touching 140.

 

Floaty bowling is a disease which has affecting lot of Indian medium pacers.Hitting hard length is hard work plus you need some height .Even Ishant Sharma was floating the ball  for a period trying to become Zaheer Khan.

 

Asutralian Damien Fleming was a swing bowler,so was Terry Alderman.Not everyone can become seam bowler who can bowl heavy ball.

 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

29 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

 

I agree, I feel coaches/media  and captains have to be taught the importance of fast bowlers and how to preserve them and guide  them to keep bowling fast.

 

Dhoni had  very little understanding on fast bowling.Unfortunately Rohit Sharma is trending more like Dhoni.

 

Players also need to take some responsibility.Guy like Umesh had everything, when I saw him first, I thought he could be India's Dale Steyn.He could bowl fast all day  and was one of the fittest players.But he never learned not be consistent.He should have 300 plus test wickets easily .

 

Tyagi and Umran, why are they not coming thru. What happened to Kamlesh Nagarkoti.I don't think we can blame system for their lack of development.

 

All these three have been given chances. We also need to understand some fast bowlers are injury prone.Their bodies simply cannot handle the stress.Pattinson is prime example,That guy from Pakistan I forgot his name.

 

 

Umesh wasn't very bright, just like Prasidh, he needed extra help/guidance from someone to tell what to bowl next, unfortunately he had none.  Even Siraj was very similar to Umesh when started, but he luckily was backed by Kohli in RCB despite leaking runs at an astronomical rate and he later improved.
Ishant was another example who wasn't very bright and had no clue what to bowl against which batsman. Umran belongs to the same club, someone need to be there to help them plan better.

 

Tyagi is going Aaron's way. Both are fast, talented and had brains. What they lack is support from their body, Aaron was quite accurate till he changed his action due to stress fractures. Tyagi too is changing his action with every passing season (not sure if it's due to injuries he had), now here I'm unhappy with BCCI that why didn't they noticed the flaw in his action during U19 days ? Tyagi has come through ranks and now at the age of 23-25 when a bowler should be at his prime fitness, he is asked to change his bowling action to avoid injuries.

Nagarkoti in my assumption is going Nathu Singh's way. Little bit of early success brought some fortune, and now they both have moved away from serious cricket. 

Problem is even the fitter fast bowlers like Sen, Harshit, Simarjeet, Gurnoor are nowhere to be seen around Indian setup. No one know what happened to Apple Tom, Prithiviraj Yarra can't even find a place in Andhra team, Lokesh Raj is lost in TN.

Edited September 25, 2024 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Umesh wasn't very bright, just like Prasidh, he needed extra help/guidance from someone to tell what to bowl next, unfortunately he had none.  Even Siraj was very similar to Umesh when started, but he luckily was backed by Kohli in RCB despite leaking runs at an astronomical rate and he later improved.
Ishant was another example who wasn't very bright and had no clue what to bowl against which batsman. Umran belongs to the same club, someone need to be there to help them plan better.

 

Tyagi is going Aaron's way. Both are fast, talented and had brains. What they lack is support from their body, Aaron was quite accurate till he changed his action due to stress fractures. Tyagi too is changing his action with every passing season (not sure if it's due to injuries he had), now here I'm unhappy with BCCI that why didn't they noticed the flaw in his action during U19 days ? Tyagi has come through ranks and now at the age of 23-25 when a bowler should be at his prime fitness, he is asked to change his bowling action to avoid injuries.

Nagarkoti in my assumption is going Nathu Singh's way. Little bit of early success brought some fortune, and now they both have moved away from serious cricket. 

Problem is even the fitter fast bowlers like Sen, Harshit, Simarjeet, Gurnoor are nowhere to be seen around Indian setup. No one know what happened to Apple Tom, Prithiviraj Yarra can't even find a place in Andhra team, Lokesh Raj is lost in TN.

What you are asking is providing these fast bowlers in game coach or coaching every step of the way. For that to happen you need to develop fast bowling personal coaches.

 

NCA should have been the answer for many of these issues.I don't know how NCA works, can any fast bowler who has played under19 and above go there to work on their issues if they need to and will they get coaching and guidance.

[tapandrun]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

Personally I don't think bowlers who touch 140 k occasionally are fast bowlers. They are medium pacers only.India has produced dime a dozen medium pacers.

 

You need more attributes to be called  as fast bowlers than occasionally touching 140.

 

Floaty bowling is a disease which has affecting lot of Indian medium pacers.Hitting hard length is hard work plus you need some height .Even Ishant Sharma was floating the ball  for a period trying to become Zaheer Khan.

 

Asutralian Damien Fleming was a swing bowler,so was Terry Alderman.Not everyone can become seam bowler who can bowl heavy ball.

 

 

 

 

 

A 140 kmph bowler is who bowls majority of the ball in 140 kmph mark, similarly 145 kmph is who bowls majority in 145 kmph bracket adn same thing for 150 kmph bowler.

 

A bowler who usually bowls in 140 kmph and occasionally touches 150 kmph does not make them 150 kmph bowler.

 

For swing to work long term in intnl cricket bowler needs to have good air speed, that was the reason that for a v.long time ind bowlers in test were in-efective with reverse swing , if the air speed is less the ball start swinging early and there sudden dip in trajectory is not there.

 

Can see the case with Shaheen with reduced pace he is not that effective with swing, either ball starts swinging early and batter are better prepared for it or it does nt have that sudden dip in trajectory