Will Hinduism become extinct?

[coffee_rules]

On 9/6/2024 at 5:26 PM, Singh bling said:

First of all princely states were in East Punjab . They don't have any say in affairs of West Punjab. They neither had any power on the awarding various districts to either India or Pakistan.

 

The leader of Sikhs at that time was master Tara singh who tried his level best that Sikhs don't have to in Pakistan.

 

Master Tara Singh And The Partition Of Punjab: How His Leadership Delivered East Punjab For India And Saved The Sikh Faith

 

 

https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/master-tara-singh-and-the-partition-of-punjab-how-his-leadership-delivered-east-punjab-for-india-and-saved

 

Ishtiaq Ahmed, a Pakistani author who has exhaustively researched the issue of the partition of Punjab, has suggested that “awarding the seven Muslim-majority tahsils to East Punjab was Radcliffe’s idea of fair play in meeting, in some substantial measure, the Sikh demand to be consolidated in East Punjab”. He goes on to state that such an “inference is plausible as the various public statements of the British government mention a consideration of the special status of the Sikhs.” Impressions of the Sikhs’ relative power, rather than abstract notions of fair play, are of course more likely to have influenced the British decision.

These successes, however, cannot make up for the fact that Partition marked a disaster for the Sikhs. Lakhs of Sikhs were murdered, raped and abducted; the Sikhs, being the most prosperous community throughout Punjab, also suffered the heaviest economic losses

 

-------

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_Line

 

If you interested in partition then read about it from all sources. Pakistani 's already cry that several area were unjustly awarded to India on western side. While on the eastern Side Hindu and Buddhist were unable to save Chittagong hill tract.

 

Nothing more was possible on Western side for india or Sikhs.

 

I know and have read it, just wanted to tell you how reality was in the statement you made that Sikhs pushed all Muslims out of East Punjab. It was a collective effort of Hindus and Sikhs that forced  retributive action against Muslim atrocities across in West Punjab. Lahore and Karachi was predominately Hindu /Sikhs  awarded to Pakistan. Partition was one of the worst human tragedies in modern history post-WWIi. World has ignored it totally. 

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, AKane said:

I am agnostic. I just don't know. All religions are not the same ..... but there is no evidence of "one God" either. The same God who says venerate the cow because it gives you milk to sustain you when you are the most vulnerable as a baby cannot say kill and grind that cow into a burger and eat it with ketchup and mustard.

 

I get this thought into my mind that when Brahma (or whatever Hindu power) created the world in satya yug, "My father/Yahweh/Allah" - who are one and the same - was not known to Brahma. This thing arrived on the scene from left field somewhere and took the Hindu gods by surprise from which they have not yet recovered.

 

Again all this is I think beyond our comprehension and so I am agnostic. I don't know.....

lol. I was agnostic too , but realized there is no point in sitting on  the fence. There is no hard evidence of god nor of non-existence of god. Read a lot about Vedic interpretations, eventually sort of understand the Nasadiya Sukta. It is about self-discovery and eternal quest of  man to find out where we come from. Isn’t science also doing the same?  Hence, I don’t equate all religions are same BS. Hindus don’t have one book, but a library. Humanity should follow such principles and not be bogged down by one god, one path. Rituals and Bhakti is not the only  aspect of Hinduism, there are are many such paths for self discovery. 
 

And the main difference between religions is that Abrahamic religions preach that God created Man and Nature is solely for the consumption of Man .our dharma tells us to respect nature as we are a part of it and so is god or parmaatma . We die and our body becomes part of  nature (parmatma). Hence worshipping trees and plants comes from that philosophy . Universe is nothing but supreme consciousness and we get a part of that consciousness (life) . This is nothing but Advaita philosophy 

Edited September 9 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, Zero_Unit said:

I respect your view (you're a very humble person as far as I've seen from your posts) and I agree with you on what you said. If you look into any religious books, you will find similar quotes/verses/etc. However, if it was upto me, all religion needs to die. They had their time and purpose, 2024 is not the time for religion (just like test cricket :P )

You should open your mind and realize that not all religious books have the same verses. Read about what Quran and Bible say about non-believers . They are subjected to eternal damnation or jahannum. Quran  goes further and says all non-believers (kaffirs) have to be eliminated . Read about Sarvadharma samanvaya that Hindus believe and then say all religions are same. Can Atheists say respect all human beings despite their beliefs? They want all religions to be abolished including Sanatana dharma.

Edited September 9 by coffee_rules

[AKane]

7 hours ago, zen said:

In one way or the other, we all follow religion (and I believe that there comes a time in everyone’s life when he/she has to think about God). 
 

For e.g. religion has laid down certain family guidelines (passed on from gen to gen) such as the role of parents, siblings, etc.  What separates us from animals, who probably don’t understand the brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son, husband-wife dynamics, is religion.

 

Marriages take place according to religion. Families come together by accepting such unions accepted through a religious ceremony.

 

All these customs/practices are said to be passed on through divine knowledge. 
 

 

yes but on the other hand there is this.....

 

It is all pointless. In a few generations after your death, no one will remember you or what you did or your memory or anything. You came from nothing and you will return to nothing. Does your great grandfather matter? His father or grandfather? They might have been immense people but now even the memory is not there. So what is the point?

 

No one knows what came before birth and no one knows what comes after death. Nobody has died and come back with knowledge of the after world. It is true some people have remembered their past lives and a professor has compiled these stories  but nobody knows what happens after death.

 

We go through a lot of rituals here - a lot of culture etc and then for everyone it all ends in nothing. 

 

What is the point of this life. No religion can explain it. It is all pointless and ends in nothing after death. All religions will pontificate and huff and puff and talk big talk but there is no explanation on what is the point of this life.

[coffee_rules]

17 minutes ago, AKane said:

yes but on the other hand there is this.....

 

It is all pointless. In a few generations after your death, no one will remember you or what you did or your memory or anything. You came from nothing and you will return to nothing. Does your great grandfather matter? His father or grandfather? They might have been immense people but now even the memory is not there. So what is the point?

 

No one knows what came before birth and no one knows what comes after death. Nobody has died and come back with knowledge of the after world. It is true some people have remembered their past lives and a professor has compiled these stories  but nobody knows what happens after death.

 

We go through a lot of rituals here - a lot of culture etc and then for everyone it all ends in nothing. 

 

What is the point of this life. No religion can explain it. It is all pointless and ends in nothing after death. All religions will pontificate and huff and puff and talk big talk but there is no explanation on what is the point of this life.

Culture and rituals are you to feel good about present life and that there is something beyond “you” in this life. All you said is all about “you” . Think beyond yourself, that is what we learn from Dharma. In our philosophy, we say do good karma and hopefully you will be rewarded in your next life. 

Edited September 9 by coffee_rules

[AKane]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

In our philosophy, we say do good karma and hopefully you will be rewarded in your next life. 

and then the next and next and next....each one of them pointless by themselves....... and finally you get "moksha". That is the ultimate nothingburger prize. Moksha.

 

Why should one want Moksha? What is so great about Moksha?

 

Now for example Christianity promises everlasting life full of joy and no sorrow....whatever but how is that inferior to Moksha?

 

Edited September 9 by AKane

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, AKane said:

and then the next and next and next....each one of them pointless by themselves....... and finally you get "moksha". That is the ultimate nothingburger prize. Moksha.

 

Why should one want Moksha? What is so great about Moksha?

 

Now for example Christianity promises everlasting life full of joy and no sorrow....whatever but how is that inferior to Moksha?

 

Hallelujah!! I am convinced and converted!! But you have to wait till judgement day, qayamat day to get deliverance !!  Unill then you are buried in your coffin or kafan waiting for  eternity. Your bones are super strong made by Allah to last till qayamat and not decay like any organic material.
 

In Hinduism, we promise you out out your misery as soon as you die and burned out in the pyre and get reborn to have fun and frolic again!!

Edited September 9 by coffee_rules

[Zero_Unit]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

You should open your mind and realize that not all religious books have the same verses. Read about what Quran and Bible say about non-believers . They are subjected to eternal damnation or jahannum. Quran  goes further and says all non-believers (kaffirs) have to be eliminated . Read about Sarvadharma samanvaya that Hindus believe and then say all religions are same. Can Atheists say respect all human beings despite their beliefs? They want all religions to be abolished including Sanatana dharma.

I should know about the Koran (and the Bible) considering my family background is Islam - I left that **** along time ago, around 12-13 years of age. And no, your religion is no better than Islam or Christianity. One of my best friend is a devoted Hindu so I took an interest and took the time to learn about Hinduism and Buddhism. Yes it's lesser evil but it's on crack pipe stroy-wise - Well it's not the religion that's the problem, it's the followers ... Just look around this forum (a very small percentage), how some members treats people from Muslim background (mostly). 

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Zero_Unit said:

I. And no, your religion is no better than Islam or Christianity

.
 

on crack pipe stroy-wise - Well it's not the religion that's the problem, it's the followers ... 

please elaborate about the  stroy -wise (sic).

 

I agree about the followers, but don’t judge the book by its cover. 

[zen]

3 hours ago, AKane said:

yes but on the other hand there is this.....

 

It is all pointless. In a few generations after your death, no one will remember you or what you did or your memory or anything. You came from nothing and you will return to nothing. Does your great grandfather matter? His father or grandfather? They might have been immense people but now even the memory is not there. So what is the point?

 

No one knows what came before birth and no one knows what comes after death. Nobody has died and come back with knowledge of the after world. It is true some people have remembered their past lives and a professor has compiled these stories  but nobody knows what happens after death.

 

We go through a lot of rituals here - a lot of culture etc and then for everyone it all ends in nothing. 

 

What is the point of this life. No religion can explain it. It is all pointless and ends in nothing after death. All religions will pontificate and huff and puff and talk big talk but there is no explanation on what is the point of this life.

 
In religious terms (religion = Hinduism here), the soul is indestructible. It goes through a cycle of life and birth. To get out of this cycle, it has to do good deeds. 

In a way it is like a video game, where one has to clear level 1 to get to level 2.

 

Depending on his deeds in his first life, it gets birth accordingly in the next life. 
 

That is why Bhagwa Gita is focused on self improvement, doing good deeds, dharma-karma, unattachment, etc.

In the distant future, the world itself could be destroyed, and then everything would start from zero.

 

There is this saying - “Nothing is permanent”.
 

Edited September 9 by zen

[zen]

The key is that religion is based on faith. Prove this or prove that is a way to harass religious people. There is no point in asking others for proof when one is supposed to take his own journey to discover God.
 

The stand - “show me God and then I will follow”, defeats the purpose of religion. 

 

There is no compulsion to believe. Whether we believe in God or not, God’s AI could still evaluating our deeds. 

Life is supposed to be a slog. At some point, we have to look up at the sky in despair to seek guidance. 
 

 
 

Edited September 9 by zen

[Zero_Unit]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

please elaborate about the  stroy -wise (sic).

 

I agree about the followers, but don’t judge the book by its cover. 

Each god has a story, where do I begin? Sometimes you need to judge a book by its cover - because the teaching of the book's output (the followers) tells you alot. 

 

I'll take a dig at my previous religion - One of the worst modern day religious celebration is when each year, millions of cows/sheep/goat etc gets their throat slit because a f*cked up god told a f*cked up dad to slit his son's throat. And then magically replaced it with an animal ... Because you know, god has to show the useless flesh and blood that he is the top dog! You know what we do to people like that these days? Send them to prison/mental asylum. 

 

Each religion teaches you good things, but also teaches you nonsense like what I mentioned too. What was the moral of that f*cked up story? If you listen to your god, god will be by your side. What a beautiful teaching right ... Except .. except the story is on crack pipe.

 

I decided that I don't need religion. Is there life after death or do you get reincarnated? Maybe/maybe not. I don't lose sleep over it. I try to live in a way where am not a d*CK to people. Try to help people/animals out as much as possible. Some people needs religion for it, I don't. Which ever makes you happy at the end of the day. If you are a devoted religious man and use god's teaching the right way, I respect you regardless of if I believe in it or not. 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Zero_Unit said:

Each god has a story, where do I begin? Sometimes you need to judge a book by its cover - because the teaching of the book's output (the followers) tells you alot. 

 

I'll take a dig at my previous religion - One of the worst modern day religious celebration is when each year, millions of cows/sheep/goat etc gets their throat slit because a f*cked up god told a f*cked up dad to slit his son's throat. And then magically replaced it with an animal ... Because you know, god has to show the useless flesh and blood that he is the top dog! You know what we do to people like that these days? Send them to prison/mental asylum. 

 

Each religion teaches you good things, but also teaches you nonsense like what I mentioned too. What was the moral of that f*cked up story? If you listen to your god, god will be by your side. What a beautiful teaching right ... Except .. except the story is on crack pipe.

 

I decided that I don't need religion. Is there life after death or do you get reincarnated? Maybe/maybe not. I don't lose sleep over it. I try to live in a way where am not a d*CK to people. Try to help people/animals out as much as possible. Some people needs religion for it, I don't. Which ever makes you happy at the end of the day. If you are a devoted religious man and use god's teaching the right way, I respect you regardless of if I believe in it or not. 

First up , stop reading or learning about Hinduism from wrong sources or people. Gods as per Greek or Roman theology (see I didn’t call them mythology) is not the same as Devas. Devas are  not gods in that sense, but custodians of nature like rain, water, air, sun and nature itself (adi shakti). There no “stories” behind , but just abstraction of their importance in our lives. So either learn it correctly or don’t have some stereotypical definition.

 

Having said that, you are on the right path about humanity. Respect the fellow being (including his beliefs) mutually and that is the just path to follow for all. 

Edited September 9 by coffee_rules

[Singh bling]

7 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

I know and have read it, just wanted to tell you how reality was in the statement you made that Sikhs pushed all Muslims out of East Punjab. It was a collective effort of Hindus and Sikhs that forced  retributive action against Muslim atrocities across in West Punjab. Lahore and Karachi was predominately Hindu /Sikhs  awarded to Pakistan. Partition was one of the worst human tragedies in modern history post-WWIi. World has ignored it totally. 

As I said read it from all sources. Pakistani sources exclusively blame violence on Sikhs. English too also bamed them very much

 

Did Sikh squads participate in an organised attempt to cleanse East Punjab during Partition?

 

https://caravanmagazine.in/vantage/did-sikhs-squads-participate-organised-attempt-cleanse-east-punjab-during-partition

 

Hindu princely states as well other areas were much bigger than what Sikhs had. If they wanted they could had drive Muslims out but that did not happen. 

 

 

[Zero_Unit]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

First up , stop reading or learning about Hinduism from wrong sources or people. Gods as per Greek or Roman theology (see I didn’t call them mythology) is not the same as Devas. Devas are  not gods in that sense, but custodians of nature like rain, water, air, sun and nature itself (adi shakti). There no “stories” behind , but just abstraction of their importance in our lives. So either learn it correctly or don’t have some stereotypical definition.

 

Having said that, you are on the right path about humanity. Respect the fellow being (including his beliefs) mutually and that is the just path to follow for all. 

I probably learned it from the same sources as you (books, translated version of the texts, etc). Respectfully, if you were born into let's say a Muslim/Christian/etc family instead of a Hindu family (I am assuming you are Hindu), what was the likelihood of you leaving Islam/Christianity /etc for Hinduism?

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Singh bling said:

As I said read it from all sources. Pakistani sources exclusively blame violence on Sikhs. English too also bamed them very much

 

Did Sikh squads participate in an organised attempt to cleanse East Punjab during Partition?

 

https://caravanmagazine.in/vantage/did-sikhs-squads-participate-organised-attempt-cleanse-east-punjab-during-partition

 

Hindu princely states as well other areas were much bigger than what Sikhs had. If they wanted they could had drive Muslims out but that did not happen. 

 

 

The organized attempts to cleanse was after Muslums killed and raped Hindu and Sikh women across the border in a large scale, it didn’t start until then. Wikipedia is not an authentic source, caravan runs LeLi agenda and they run the global narrative on the ills of partition.There was one tragic  incident where a Sikh man killed 5 of his daughters when the train they were traveling back to India was attacked by a Muslim mob. The author from Kerala, claimed it is all patriarchal that Sikhs and Hindus believed in a faux honor among women and will go to any lengths to hold on to it. I felt like telling her to be in that situation to understand why the man killed his own daughters. They would face much more zillat lifelong.

 

The author also tried to say that most Hindu and Sikh  women were killed by their fathers or brothers. What a sham narrative.

 

The Sikh princely states were right across the border. So the attempt to cleanse Muslums was possible. Only other candidates were WB, Rajasthan and Gujarat. The percentage of Muslims before partition was not much in these states except WB. Also, Punjab is only state that had both road and train lines across the border. So it was possible to flee or chase them out

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Zero_Unit said:

I probably learned it from the same sources as you (books, translated version of the texts, etc). Respectfully, if you were born into let's say a Muslim/Christian/etc family instead of a Hindu family (I am assuming you are Hindu), what was the likelihood of you leaving Islam/Christianity /etc for Hinduism?

Zero to nill chances. Marna nahi hain mujhe. 

[coffee_rules]

14 hours ago, zen said:

Yeah, with multiple people including possibly males and a definition that can even make animals “married”.
 

Discuss the theories of the proper uses of scientific methods, facts, and logic with your professor.
 

Buddy, in real world, you have to understand other people’s pov, including reading b/w the lines! No one is going to spoon feed you based on how “you” understand things. 

 

Appears as if you have learned nothing from what I have posted. 

 

It is a claimed that 90% of birds have lifelong partnership. Wolves are also mostly monogamous. Some the lifelong partnerships among animals are described here.

https://www.bbcearth.com/news/seven-animals-who-mate-for-life

 

Marriage with religious tone is more modern after religion was invented, purely by archelogical evidences ,maybe last 7000 years or so. Before that, I can imagine Humans forming lifelong bonds and are also paternal in nature. It means Men taking care of young ones (like Penguins, Lions and Gorillas). 

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 

It is a claimed that 90% of birds have lifelong partnership. Wolves are also mostly monogamous. Some the lifelong partnerships among animals are described here.

https://www.bbcearth.com/news/seven-animals-who-mate-for-life

 

Marriage with religious tone is more modern after religion was invented, purely by archelogical evidences ,maybe last 7000 years or so. Before that, I can imagine Humans forming lifelong bonds and are also paternal in nature. It means Men taking care of young ones (like Penguins, Lions and Gorillas). 

I am talking about marriage from a religious PoV. In Hinduism, people tend to marry in front of a fire, with a pandit chanting mantras, the couples doing seven rounds, etc. Where even the families come together. 
 

Every species has been reproducing. For human beings - Adam & Eve (from Bible). To reproduce, there would be some companionship otherwise how would people mate and take care of their young ones. This info is programmed into them.

The issue with some folks is that they don’t understand that these are basics. There is no need to start from zero.
 

If we talk about marriage being advanced through religion, they throw some basic info from website or something they learned at university about tribes, animals, etc. Seriously!!

Therefore, my response is simple - bring me the bird, animal, tribe, etc., and I will analyze and decide.  

 

Usually, I am posting on religion based on my own philosophies, analysis, interaction with others including environment, etc. … with a focus on the big picture more often than not!

 

Edited September 9 by zen

[Zero_Unit]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Zero to nill chances. Marna nahi hain mujhe. 

Lol, as a young boy, it took alot of courage for me to look beyond religion. Especially coming from a Muslim background - like you said, death is a possibility. But once you do, it makes you look at the world in a different way, not bounded inside a box of rules/regulations placed by religion. But again, each to his own in this world. Who am I to sh*t on someone's belief if it brings them peace and they don't harm anyone with that belief system.