RizBarKhan Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 5 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Hindutva will collapse under the raging army of ghazis from UzbekAfghanistan - as said by a Laltopi mullah geo-political expert from Pakistan It will collapse internally. Your own people will bring it down. This is why your Yogi geopolitical expert Gobar Arya is constantly in panic mode, obsessing over Pakistan and Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 5 hours ago, zen said: Good to see the Bonobo University’s education demonstrated here. Thank you for being such a great brand ambassador for the Bonobos Okay bonobo. Clearly, no citation and too much ego. Thanks for showing us how bonobos behave,bonobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Okay bonobo. Clearly, no citation and too much ego. Thanks for showing us how bonobos behave,bonobo. Ah ha, you are displaying another Bonobo trait - when someone mentions Bonobo, the Bonobo responds with Bonobo! The alumni of the Bonobo University! Edited September 10 by zen Chaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 The decline of religion is a positive sign for society. Science and Technology making religion irrelevant. We should actually cherish this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 (edited) 8 hours ago, Lannister said: Science and Technology making religion irrelevant. I think Religion and Science/Technology are incomparable. Religion (talking about Hinduism), which influences culture too, is about emotions, relationships, connections with a higher (unknown to most) power, etc. Many things in religion can be beyond human control (and proper understanding) as it originates from elsewhere. Science & technology are tools to improve our conveniences. They are within human control (and understanding) unless something is developed by humans that controls itself. Unless someone pursues a religion for a convenience which can be fulfilled by science and technology, it is difficult to put them in the same bracket. Some communist governments have tried to abolish religion to replace it with their “ism” and maybe portray their leaders as new Gods. Edited September 11 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 (edited) 45 minutes ago, zen said: I think Religion and Science/Technology are incomparable. Religion (talking about Hinduism), which influences culture too, is about emotions, relationships, connections with a higher (unknown to most) power, etc. Many things in religion can be beyond human control (and proper understanding) as it originates from elsewhere. Science & technology are tools to improve our conveniences. They are within human control (and understanding) unless something is developed by humans that controls itself. Unless someone pursues a religion for a convenience which can be fulfilled by science and technology, it is difficult to put them in the same bracket. Some communist governments have tried to abolish religion to replace it with their “ism” and maybe portray their leaders as new Gods. Don’t you think religion and god are also human creations? There is a common misconception that meaning and purpose are unattainable without religious beliefs, but that is no longer the case. The science of mind and consciousness provides deeper insights into spirituality and morality than religion ever could. And also science can be pursued as a fulfilling career path. Edited September 11 by Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Lannister said: Don’t you think religion and god are also human creations? I don’t think that (original) Gods (again talking about Hinduism) are man made creations. Yes, there may be some humans who portray themselves as Gods, even using religion for that purpose (or just to make $$$). Quote There is a common misconception that meaning and purpose are unattainable without religious beliefs, but that is no longer the case. The science of mind and consciousness provides deeper insights into spirituality and morality than religion ever could. And also science can be pursued as a fulfilling career path. Religion (again talking about Hinduism) is not much about finding the meaning or purpose of life (esp. career oriented) but more about focusing on doing good deeds (to free oneself from the cycle of life and birth). It is in the spiritual realm. Humans have to find their own purpose in life. One may have no purpose or meaning in life in the traditional or professional sense. He could be a poor person living in a hut, but if he is focused on doing good deeds (karma-dharma) within his sphere/scope, he would likely be in the good books of Gods (helping him to free himself from the cycle of life and birth). On the other hand, someone may have a meaning and purpose (career?) in his life, be wealthy, own IPL teams, but if his deeds are not up to the mark, he may have to work on being in the good books (even though other humans may respect him more for his $$$). Religion has nothing to do with career path. Doctors, scientists, industrialists, clerks, etc., can all be religions while pursuing their careers. It is on case by case based on an individual, who has his own baggage of good/bad deeds. Hinduism does not force anyone to be religious (I can’t speak for other religions). Edited September 11 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 1 hour ago, zen said: I don’t think that (original) Gods (again talking about Hinduism) are man made creations. Yes, there may be some humans who portray themselves as Gods, even using religion for that purpose (or just to make $$$). I view religion as an early attempt by humans to make sense of their environment and life's deeper questions. A kind of primitive science. However, it fell far short, with many of its conclusions being wildly incorrect. 1 hour ago, zen said: Religion (again talking about Hinduism) is not much about finding the meaning or purpose of life (esp. career oriented) but more about focusing on doing good deeds (to free oneself from the cycle of life and birth). It is in the spiritual realm. Humans have to find their own purpose in life. One may have no purpose or meaning in life in the traditional or professional sense. He could be a poor person living in a hut, but if he is focused on doing good deeds (karma-dharma) within his sphere/scope, he would likely be in the good books of Gods (helping him to free himself from the cycle of life and birth). On the other hand, someone may have a meaning and purpose (career?) in his life, be wealthy, own IPL teams, but if his deeds are not up to the mark, he may have to work on being in the good books (even though other humans may respect him more for his $$$). Religion has nothing to do with career path. Doctors, scientists, industrialists, clerks, etc., can all be religions while pursuing their careers. It is on case by case based on an individual, who has his own baggage of good/bad deeds. Hinduism does not force anyone to be religious (I can’t speak for other religions). Yes. That is if you believe in Hinduism and the idea of Karma, where our current deeds supposedly determine our future lives. These beliefs might offer comfort. However, that doesn’t make them true. Truth can only be established through reason and the scientific method, not through belief alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 8 minutes ago, Lannister said: I view religion as an early attempt by humans to make sense of their environment and life's deeper questions. A kind of primitive science. However, it fell far short, with many of its conclusions being wildly incorrect. Yes. That is if you believe in Hinduism and the idea of Karma, where our current deeds supposedly determine our future lives. These beliefs might offer comfort. However, that doesn’t make them true. Truth can only be established through reason and the scientific method, not through belief alone. Religion is based on faith. Those who pursue it believe it to be the “truth”. “Scientific” methods are devised per the limitations of human intelligences, at times, making people unidimensional. Religion comes from a different sphere, therefore human methods are not always valid. To highlight the limits of human intelligence, the technology and means to make an airplane, a train, an automobile, a cellphone, etc., was always available but it took us a long long time to identify those. Many new things that could be available in future that we don’t yet know about (but it could be made today if we had the knowledge for it today). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 13 minutes ago, Lannister said: I view religion as an early attempt by humans to make sense of their environment and life's deeper questions. A kind of primitive science. However, it fell far short, with many of its conclusions being wildly incorrect. Yes. That is if you believe in Hinduism and the idea of Karma, where our current deeds supposedly determine our future lives. These beliefs might offer comfort. However, that doesn’t make them true. Truth can only be established through reason and the scientific method, not through belief alone. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Hinduism doesn't oppose science as much as Abrabhamical religions do/did. Christianity has moved on, but still they want to teach creationism to kids in school. Islam might kill you if you say earth is not flat. In medieval times, Bible was the final word on science. You don't hear a Copernicus being hanged for Galileo being imprisioned for their beliefs in Heliocentrism , in Idian civilization. We had a culture of debates on matters of philosophy/science and where the debator had to learn the opposite view to prove it is false. Please don't quote somebody saying Gaumutra has a cure for Covid. I singhvivek141 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 16 minutes ago, zen said: Religion is based on faith. Those who pursue it believe it to be the “truth”. “Scientific” methods are devised per the limitations of human intelligences, at times, making people unidimensional. Religion comes from a different sphere, therefore human methods are not always valid. To highlight the limits of human intelligence, the technology and means to make an airplane, a train, an automobile, a cellphone, etc., was always available but it took us a long long time to identify those. Many new things that could be available in future that we don’t yet know about (but it could be made today if we had the knowledge for it today). Subjective experiences cannot be considered objective truths. If they were, anyone could claim anything about the nature of reality. The societies won't function like that. The only reliable way we've improved our quality of life is through science, while religion has often acted as an obstacle to that progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 2 minutes ago, Lannister said: Subjective experiences cannot be considered objective truths. If they were, anyone could claim anything about the nature of reality. The societies won't function like that. The only reliable way we've improved our quality of life is through science, while religion has often acted as an obstacle to that progress. First, we are not talking about anyone. You can try claiming something, not many would believe. You need to stop equating Gods and their religion with humans and their science. Humans have relatively limited knowledge to be able to judge a much broader realm. Second, religious experiences are on individual basis, resulting in billions of people “believing”. Third, there is no religion or science battle (at least from a Hinduism perspective. Please do not bring the perspective of other religions. The thread is on Hinduism). In fact, science itself can be seen a gift to humans (by providing them with intelligence) by the higher powers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 40 minutes ago, zen said: First, we are not talking about anyone. You can try claiming something, not many would believe. You need to stop equating Gods and their religion with humans and their science. Humans have relatively limited knowledge to be able to judge a much broader realm. Second, religious experiences are on individual basis, resulting in billions of people “believing”. Third, there is no religion or science battle (at least from a Hinduism perspective. Please do not bring the perspective of other religions. The thread is on Hinduism). In fact, science itself can be seen a gift to humans (by providing them with intelligence) by the higher powers! Sure, for now, Hinduism may appear more accommodating of science compared to other religions, but like other faiths, it also centers on the concept of a supreme divine being. Ultimately, science will replace all religions on this planet. While Islam’s decline may involve significant bloodshed, even it will eventually diminish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Lannister said: Sure, for now, Hinduism may appear more accommodating of science compared to other religions, but like other faiths, it also centers on the concept of a supreme divine being. Ultimately, science will replace all religions on this planet. While Islam’s decline may involve significant bloodshed, even it will eventually diminish. Science (knowledge gain through a systematic study) cannot replace anything. It is an only a tool. Medicine is invented and manufactured by pharma companies. When a person is sick, he takes those medicines, a tool to fight sickness. Using engineering knowledge, we may built a craft that could allow us go farther in space. Again a tool to help us venture in to an uncharted area in space. Human beings are driven by emotions. If a person you love is surrounded by fire, one is likely to jump into the situation to save that person. We would not calculate the intensity of heat, survival rate in such a situation, etc. A selfish person driven by self interest will simply ignore the situation and run away. When someone that we love is facing death where doctors can’t help, our only course is to pray (no matter how much we have written against religion and God on such forums). We cannot simply say that death is a biological process. People die. We are emotional beings. Edited September 11 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 13 minutes ago, zen said: Science (knowledge gain through a systematic study) cannot replace anything. It is an only a tool. Medicine is invented and manufactured by pharma companies. When a person is sick, he takes those medicines, a tool to fight sickness. Using engineering knowledge, we may built a craft that could allow us go farther in space. Again a tool to help us venture in to an uncharted area in space. Human beings are driven by emotions. If a person you love is surrounded by fire, one is likely to jump into the situation to save that person. We would not calculate the intensity of heat, survival rate in such a situation, etc. A selfish person driven by self interest will simply ignore the situation and run away. When someone that we love is facing death where doctors can’t help, our only course is to pray (no matter how much we have written against religion and God on such forums). We cannot simply say that death is a biological process. People die. We are emotional beings. Well you have a limited understanding of science then. Right now, science is still in its early stages / infancy. However, it is the ultimate truth. Those who embrace it will thrive, those who dismiss it will perish. Nature is not going to wait for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 Just now, Lannister said: Well you have a limited understanding of science then. Right now, science is still in its early stages / infancy. However, it is the ultimate truth. Those who embrace it will thrive, those who dismiss it will perish. Nature is not going to wait for them. No one is dismissing science as it is a necessary “tool”. You are overestimating it and on top of that claiming that it will replace religion, implying that it will turn into a religion. Like you said, Science is in its infancy. When it is mature enough, it would help people understand even religion better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 (edited) Any religion which doesnt allow a mechanism to spread is eventually going to die as its followers may start following another religion (whatever may be driving factor force , money, deception,stupidity). It may take time but extinction is definite unless Hindus themselves start treating their religion worth spreading and welcome people from other faith to convert and join their way. Edited September 11 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 7 minutes ago, mishra said: Any religion which doesnt allow a mechanism to spread is eventually going to die as its followers may start following another religion (whatever may be driving factor force , money, deception,stupidity). It may take time but extinction is definite unless Hindus themselves start treating their religion worth spreading and welcome people from other faith to convert and join their way. I think Hinduism have to promote Arya Samaj's efforts - Swami Dayanand Saraswathi's efforts to re-convert to Hinduism of all converts. It was way ahead for his time, I think people have reformed enough to accept it . Shuddhi is the way to go for Hinduism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuddhi_(Hinduism) mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 23 minutes ago, zen said: No one is dismissing science as it is a necessary “tool”. You are overestimating it and on top of that claiming that it will replace religion, implying that it will turn into a religion. Like you said, Science is in its infancy. When it is mature enough, it would help people understand even religion better! There will be nothing left of religion as science continues to advance. It is the ultimate equalizer and its already ingrained in our DNA. Sorry to disappoint you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 17 hours ago, zen said: Ah ha, you are displaying another Bonobo trait - when someone mentions Bonobo, the Bonobo responds with Bonobo! The alumni of the Bonobo University! That is not a bonobo trait, given bonobos dont speak, bonobo. Typical fundie with ego issues - present facts and then get him to spew BS because his flawed understanding and ego cant handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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