Will Hinduism become extinct?

[zen]

 

[coffee_rules]

People should stop going there. Someday there will be a tragedy if crowd is not controlled properly there. Certainly not religion for me. it was more smoother in Kashi

 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

People should stop going there. Someday there will be a tragedy if crowd is not controlled properly there. Certainly not religion for me. it was more smoother in Kashi

 

Temples would need to get more organized esp. during festive seasons. 
 

One thing that they can do is open up registration before the festivals where people are allowed to pick a slot based on availability their preferred date and time to visit. The visitors would only need to show up at the appointment destination like 30 minutes before the appointment. 

 

This also puts a limit on the number of people that can visit, allowing for the infrastructure to not get overburdened. 
 

[Muloghonto]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:48 PM, Lannister said:

@Muloghonto In case, if you're aiming for Moksha, just stop having kids! You'll achieve liberation and so will your genes. Free from ever being passed on again! Plus, society might thank you for it. 

i aint aiming for moksha. i am aiming for leftist elimination. 

[AKane]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:27 AM, coffee_rules said:

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Hinduism  doesn't oppose science as much as Abrabhamical religions do/did. Christianity has moved on, but still they want to teach creationism to kids in school. Islam might kill you if you say earth is not flat. In medieval times,  Bible was the final word on science. You don't hear a Copernicus being hanged for Galileo being imprisioned for their beliefs in Heliocentrism , in Idian civilization. We had a culture of debates on matters of philosophy/science and where the debator had to learn the opposite view to prove it is false.  Please don't quote somebody saying Gaumutra has a cure for Covid. I

Really? You want to talk about  Hinduism vs Christianity when it comes to science?

 

Let us look at what Christianity has done with Science - Newton and Calculus and everything, Pasteur and vaccinations, Nikola Tesla and alternating current,  Fleming and penicillin/antibiotics etc. Then the industrial revolution and ships and submarines and planes and rockets and satellites and electronics and surgery and dentistry etc etc etc and don't even talk about Christianity and science.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by AKane

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, AKane said:

Really? You want to talk about  Hinduism vs Christianity when it comes to science?

 

Let us look at what Christianity has done with Science - Newton and Calculus and everything, Pasteur and vaccinations, Nikola Tesla and alternating current,  Fleming and penicillin/antibiotics etc. Then the industrial revolution and ships and submarines and planes and rockets and satellites and electronics and surgery and dentistry etc etc etc and don't even talk about Christianity and science.

 

 

You totally missed what I said. I am not comparing Hindus and Christians in achievements in science. As a faith system, Hindus never had arguments over scientific beliefs/theories You don’t hear men of science being prosecuted in Hinduism like Coperinicus. Read about how the word Witch-hunt came about. Christians would just accuse pagans and other believers to be witches and they were hunted and burnt to death. 
 

Before Newton/Tesla, Indians were ahead of western civilization in Astronomy, Mathematics, Metallurgy, Chemistry that taught the world. It is such a misnomer that Hindus invented 0 , but  We had numbers and decimal system (place holders) in trade in early millennium while even in 13th century , west was using XMLCV type numbers . I don’t believe we had aeroplanes and nuclear weapons during Ramayana, or we had plastic surgery during Ganesha days. But read about Sulubha sutras (algebraic principles) and Sushruta whose surgical methods taught western medicine much later. We have never heard any such academics being prosecuted in India for their beliefs. 
 

Even today in US, Bible thumpers in the south , want to teach Creationism in schools about how god created the universe 6000 years ago. Do we have such clashes in India fighting to teach puranas in schools? 

Edited September 22, 2024 by coffee_rules

[AKane]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

You totally missed what I said. I am not comparing Hindus and Christians in achievements in science. As a faith system, Hindus never had arguments over scientific beliefs/theories You don’t hear men of science being prosecuted in Hinduism like Coperinicus. Read about how the word Witch-hunt came about. Christians would just accuse pagans and other believers to be witches and they were hunted and burnt to death. 
 

Before Newton/Tesla, Indians were ahead of western civilization in Astronomy, Mathematics, Metallurgy, Chemistry that taught the world. It is such a misnomer that Hindus invented 0 , but  We had numbers and decimal system (place holders) in trade in early millennium while even in 13th century , west was using XMLCV type numbers . I don’t believe we had aeroplanes and nuclear weapons during Ramayana, or we had plastic surgery during Ganesha days. But read about Sulubha sutras (algebraic principles) and Sushruta whose surgical methods taught western medicine much later. We have never heard any such academics being prosecuted in India for their beliefs. 
 

Even today in US, Bible thumpers in the south , want to teach Creationism in schools about how god created the universe 6000 years ago. Do we have such clashes in India fighting to teach puranas in schools? 

Well you go ahead and prove that the human eye or any eye "evolved" out of organic soup.... that will disprove creationism. Can't do it can you? Not even the simplest cell with nucleus and cytoplasm can be created out of non-living sources even today. I am agnostic but I too do not believe in evolution being a source of life on earth. Good on the Bible thumpers!

 

In Maharashtra the learned Sant Gnyaneshwar and his siblings were outcast and treated horribly because of Hindu beliefs.His father Vitthalnath who became a sanyasi came back and rejoined his wife. That got the Hindu brahmins all worked up and they harangued the father/mother to death. There are many such incidences but not all documented. But go ahead and trivialize that vs witch burning.

 

We have had nothing comparable to the west in science/technology and you know it.  Sushruta taught western medicine surgery? Please... They learned by themselves. For ex cesarean's have been practiced since 700 odd BC but until 19th century, the mother died. Sad but ultimately western medicine conquered that frontier. Not Sushruta, thank you very much.

 

So here is the challenge - the two greatest achievements of Allopathy 1) vaccinations which have conquered smallpox and polio among others and 2) Antibiotics starting with penicillin which have conquered bacterial infections including TB..... what does  Ayurveda have to offer against these two? NOTHING and don't tell me holistic this and that.

[Lannister]

5 hours ago, AKane said:

Really? You want to talk about  Hinduism vs Christianity when it comes to science?

 

Let us look at what Christianity has done with Science - Newton and Calculus and everything, Pasteur and vaccinations, Nikola Tesla and alternating current,  Fleming and penicillin/antibiotics etc. Then the industrial revolution and ships and submarines and planes and rockets and satellites and electronics and surgery and dentistry etc etc etc and don't even talk about Christianity and science.

 

1 hour ago, AKane said:

We have had nothing comparable to the west in science/technology and you know it. 

New ideas emerge from the specific environments and challenges that humans face. In the case of the West, it had the ideal conditions - historically, culturally and socially - for the rise of science. Science, in part, arose as a reaction (counterpoint) to Christianity. This is what evolution is about. 

Edited September 22, 2024 by Lannister

[mishra]

^ Science is neither for nor against Christianity. Yes , its true that religion (both Islam and Christianity) tried scientific research for their spread and war machinery. Soon certain nations realised that they don’t need religion anymore and after WWII,  emphasis has been on science alone fir war machinery.

[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, AKane said:

Well you go ahead and prove that the human eye or any eye "evolved" out of organic soup.... that will disprove creationism. Can't do it can you? Not even the simplest cell with nucleus and cytoplasm can be created out of non-living sources even today. I am agnostic but I too do not believe in evolution being a source of life on earth. Good on the Bible thumpers!

Now you want to teach Creationism is schools as a alternate for evolution?  Now wonder the American kids are so confused!

On this subject, scientists have come close to explain how life/consciousness happened in a single cell.  The cell wants to replicate itself  once formed (god particle in a cell!)! It is fascinating to read about how life is created in a single cell. Cells keep dupliocating and forms tissues. There have been advances in genetic science in DNA study, it is possible one day to explain why and how the eye functions that way and replicate. Modern Robots have taken technology that mimcs the function of neurons and ahve replicated the function of the eye using AI as well.  They have cracked and decoded the DNA of various life forms and even plants. They are gtowing tissues and organs and are close to transplant orgams with lab grown organs. You are already aware of lab-grown meat which is very similar in structure and nutrients to real living (I mean once living) meat. They are trying to adjust DNA of humans to cure chronic diseases. So, one day, we will be able to create a organic cell from npn-organic matter and create a Frankenstein.

 

6 hours ago, AKane said:

 

In Maharashtra the learned Sant Gnyaneshwar and his siblings were outcast and treated horribly because of Hindu beliefs.His father Vitthalnath who became a sanyasi came back and rejoined his wife. That got the Hindu brahmins all worked up and they harangued the father/mother to death. There are many such incidences but not all documented. But go ahead and trivialize that vs witch burning.

 

My bad to include Witch-hunt in this argument, such prosecution due to social beliefs (sati, etc) is also seen in India. My point was about prosecution of people due scientifc beliefs is not seen in Sanatan Dharma. In one of the samhitas/sutras, Aryabhatta and other thinkers have attributed to helio-centrism , but were not killed because they said that earth is not the centre of the univers.

 

6 hours ago, AKane said:

We have had nothing comparable to the west in science/technology and you know it.  Sushruta taught western medicine surgery? Please... They learned by themselves. For ex cesarean's have been practiced since 700 odd BC but until 19th century, the mother died. Sad but ultimately western medicine conquered that frontier. Not Sushruta, thank you very much.

 

No advancement in science is not without centuries of research and pursuit of knowledge and taking help oknowledge already gained. If you believe in the the kids story about how Newton got the idea of gravity because he saw an apple dropped from a  tree, then , be my guest. Many scinetists have researched about gravity, taken inspiration from various texts and help pf other researchers and have come up with their findings. This is how science advances. This is shown well in the movie Oppenheimer, where it is a group pf phyiscists, geologists,  chemists, structural and chemical engineers, that keep researching and sometimes taking help of each other's research to make advances in making the atomic bomb a reality. I never said Susruta knew better than modern neuro-surgeons. It is a a fact that what t Susrita knew and how it helped modern surgery to make advance in leaps and bounds.

 

Even the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons (RACS) in Melbourne, Australia have attributed their field of science to Susruta. It is fascinating to read that he had surgical instruments in 600 BCE. . It is one thing to appreciate modern scientific acheievemnts, don't be ignorant or short-sell what ancient Indians knew and were much advanced than other civilizations of that period.  Nobody learns it "by themselves". You have turned this argument into a d1ck-measuring contest. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, AKane said:

So here is the challenge - the two greatest achievements of Allopathy 1) vaccinations which have conquered smallpox and polio among others and 2) Antibiotics starting with penicillin which have conquered bacterial infections including TB..... what does  Ayurveda have to offer against these two? NOTHING and don't tell me holistic this and that.

 

I don;t know why you are saying these. I never said Ayurveda is better than Allopathy or made any comparison. There was no Allopathy in the 16th century as well. Every region had their own version of natural medicine. Chinese had their herbal science, Indians had Ayurveda, Islamic world had  tehir hakeems that practiced medcine bearing roots to unani, Westerners followed various methods and prayers, Africans too had their own version therapy involving herbs and burning roots/plants (smoke therapy) , man had to survive and beat the disease. 

 

One thing the westerners did was to appropriate what they learned from others into their own. Dutch travellers (traders and jesuits) took our knowledge of herbs, roots in  medicine nto their own research and have never attributed the knowledge. Even today, many westerners come to India to know more about Yoga and our knowdge of mind . meditation, mindfulness (Vipassana) and have written many papers on Mind sciences without attributing anything to our knowledge. They have coined alternate words for it and have even patented them!!! Ancient Indians and also esp our modern Yogic sadhus didn't believe in any patents and it has easily been hijacked by westerners and they have named themselves as pioneers. 

[AKane]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

On this subject, scientists have come close to explain how life/consciousness happened in a single cell.

No they have not... scientists and doctors don't even know why we sleep. I once asked a research doctor the difference between an unconscious person and a person in a coma and he said we don't know and we don't even know why we sleep...or what happens when we sleep. Never mind consciousness.

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

If you believe in the the kids story about how Newton got the idea of gravity because he saw an apple dropped from a  tree, then , be my guest. Many scinetists have researched about gravity, taken inspiration from various texts and help pf other researchers and have come up with their findings. This is how science advances.

Er ...get real, the falling apple let Newton explain some force that holds things where they are - he wondered why the moon does not fall  like the apple etc. He called that force gravity.

 

Now speaking of gravity -  we know there is some force that causes things to fall or stay where they are in space.... but nothing, and I mean NOTHING explains what that force is. No gravitrons have been found and no one can explain gravity. Yeah... not Newton who defined it but not what it is and not Einstein with relativity and the curved spaces either.

 

Gravity is as much a mystery as sleep. None of the Hindu books explain what is gravity nor can modern physics explain it. Thank you very much.

 

Ok you can believe Hinduism and its books are basis of all advances and I say no - we have contributed little if anything. Be realistic and accept what others have done instead of glorifying non-existent advances of ancient Indian society.

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by AKane

[Lannister]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Even today, many westerners come to India to know more about Yoga and our knowdge of mind . meditation, mindfulness (Vipassana) and have written many papers on Mind sciences without attributing anything to our knowledge. They have coined alternate words for it and have even patented them!!! Ancient Indians and also esp our modern Yogic sadhus didn't believe in any patents and it has easily been hijacked by westerners and they have named themselves as pioneers. 

I'm not sure where you're getting this from. I've come across many westerners online who attribute it to Buddhist philosophy and some even openly reference Advaita Vedanta.

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, AKane said:

No they have not... scientists and doctors don't even know why we sleep. I once asked a research doctor the difference between an unconscious person and a person in a coma and he said we don't know and we don't even know why we sleep...or what happens when we sleep. Never mind consciousness.

Er ...get real, the falling apple let Newton explain some force that holds things where they are - he wondered why the moon does not fall  like the apple etc. He called that force gravity.

 

Now speaking of gravity -  we know there is some force that causes things to fall or stay where they are in space.... but nothing, and I mean NOTHING explains what that force is. No gravitrons have been found and no one can explain gravity. Yeah... not Newton who defined it but not what it is and not Einstein with relativity and the curved spaces either.

 

Gravity is as much a mystery as sleep. None of the Hindu books explain what is gravity nor can modern physics explain it. Thank you very much.

 

Ok you can believe Hinduism and its books are basis of all advances and I say no - we have contributed little if anything. Be realistic and accept what others have done instead of glorifying non-existent advances of ancient Indian society.

 

First you denied Susruta. I showed how Australians  reveres him. I will show some articles where gravity and helio-centrism  is explained by Hindu rishis , not saying we knew everything. From we know nothing you accept that  we did contributes  little. I never said whatever westerners learnt is from Indian knowledge and that we knew everything. Western advances did get inspiration and thoughts from various sources. Indian/Greek/Roman//Arabic;Chinese etc

Edited September 23, 2024 by coffee_rules

[Lone Wolf]

Controversial but Hinduism lost its edge after the advent of Jainism and Buddhism.

Back in Ancient times Hindus used to perform Ashvamedha & Rajasuya type yagyas...   Those were the kind of people that laid the foundations of our great culture.

The Charvaka ideology born out of J& B psychologically weakened Hindu masses & eventually paved the way for Turkic invasions.

Sindh and Gandhar are prime examples.

A legendary centralized empire like Mauryas fell after adopting similar ideology.

It's a miracle we pushed through but our psychology is scarred.

Our ancestors must be extremely disappointed in us.

Centuries of indoctrination cannot be undone.

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by Lone Wolf

[rkt.india]

Hindu dharm ab ek dhandha ban chuka hai. Log apne dhandhe ko extinct nahi hone denge.

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Controversial but Hinduism lost its edge after the advent of Jainism and Buddhism.

Back in Ancient times Hindus used to perform Ashvamedha & Rajasuya type yagyas...   Those were the kind of people that laid the foundations of our great culture.

The Charvaka ideology born out of J& B psychologically weakened Hindu masses & eventually paved the way for Turkic invasions.

Sindh and Gandhar are prime examples.

A legendary centralized empire like Mauryas fell after adopting similar ideology.

It's a miracle we pushed through but our psychology is scarred.

Our ancestors must be extremely disappointed in us.

Centuries of indoctrination cannot be undone.

 

 

TG, you didn't blame Mahamanav Vishwaguru for the decline, aaj kal you are blaming him for everything that is failing

 

Jokes apart Jainism and Buddhisn were considered part of the big umbrella of Sanatan Dharma. They had roots in Vedanta/Upanishads whose philosophy had inspired both Mahaveera and Buddha. It is only modern Indologists that nake these as different eligions. We had many great empires with Jain kings and also Buddhist kings. DG Maurya had accepted Jain and probably died as a Jain proponent. It was all fluid then as they were are considered part of Sanatan Dharma. Asoka had accepted Bodha Dharma 4 years before the Kalinga war. It's a myth that he became buddhist after seeing the devastation of war. He killed many  opponents to his pholisopy. Many Hindu kings were strong in the Gipta dynasty and down south - Rashtrakutas, Chalukyas, Pallavas in the first milleniem . Jainism spread in the south with many kings in Hoysalas, Gangas, Pandyas were also Jains. They built amazing Jain and Hindu temples.

IMO, the decline started with Islam knocking on our doorsteps. Although for 200 years after Mohd Qasim had invaded Sindh, Hindus had resisted Islamist invaders, It was the big push after Ghori is when our decline started.  Till then, Hindusim had thrived in the region and had spread across SE Asia wighout any military conquests till Indonesia. That whole region is occupied by Islam now so. So, I would say Islam ne Hinduism ka satyanash kar diya, kar dega aage!

Edited September 23, 2024 by coffee_rules

[Lone Wolf]

22 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

TG, you didn't blame Mahamanav Vishwaguru for the decline, aaj kal you are blaming him for everything that is failing

 

Jokes apart Jainism and Buddhisn were considered part of the big umbrella of Sanatan Dharma. They had roots in Vedanta/Upanishads whose philosophy had inspired both Mahaveera and Buddha. It is only modern Indologists that nake these as different eligions. We had many great empires with Jain kings and also Buddhist kings. DG Maurya had accepted Jain and probably died as a Jain proponent. It was all fluid then as they were are considered part of Sanatan Dharma. Asoka had accepted Bodha Dharma 4 years before the Kalinga war. It's a myth that he became buddhist after seeing the devastation of war. He killed many  opponents to his pholisopy. Many Hindu kings were strong in the Gipta dynasty and down south - Rashtrakutas, Chalukyas, Pallavas in the first milleniem . Jainism spread in the south with many kings in Hoysalas, Gangas, Pandyas were also Jains. They built amazing Jain and Hindu temples.

IMO, the decline started with Islam knocking on our doorsteps. Although for 200 years after Mohd Qasim had invaded Sindh, Hindus had resisted Islamist invaders, It was the big push after Ghori is when our decline started.  Till then, Hindusim had thrived in the region and had spread across SE Asia wighout any military conquests till Indonesia. That whole region is occupied by Islam now so. So, I would say Islam ne Hinduism ka satyanash kar diya, kar dega aage!

Imo decline had started way before... Its not a coincidence that Invaders started getting more and more successful post the advent of Jainism and Buddhism.  There was no concept of Charvaka ideology in Hinduism. It totally took away the tribalistic approach towards our religion and culture.

We are talking about people who repelled mighty Assyrians and Persian invasions & even held their own against Alexander.  The technological and military tactics back then were mostly on par with outsiders.

 

NW India was severely affected due to spread of Buddhism & had cascading effect on entire North India.  

Indo Greeks then Huns Kushans thereafter everyone made hay invading India.

Mihirkula persecuted Buddhists Monks in decent numbers & also tells us the scale it which it was prominent in NW India.  We all have heard stories of Pushyamitra Shunga's adventures in Taxila.

No wonder when Qasim came they were the ones who got slaughtered first in Sindh.

Then of course Afghanistan couple of centuries later. 

[coffee_rules]

55 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Imo decline had started way before... Its not a coincidence that Invaders started getting more and more successful post the advent of Jainism and Buddhism.  There was no concept of Charvaka ideology in Hinduism. It totally took away the tribalistic approach towards our religion and culture.

We are talking about people who repelled mighty Assyrians and Persian invasions & even held their own against Alexander.  The technological and military tactics back then were mostly on par with outsiders.

 

NW India was severely affected due to spread of Buddhism & had cascading effect on entire North India.  

Indo Greeks then Huns Kushans thereafter everyone made hay invading India.

Mihirkula persecuted Buddhists Monks in decent numbers & also tells us the scale it which it was prominent in NW India.  We all have heard stories of Pushyamitra Shunga's adventures in Taxila.

No wonder when Qasim came they were the ones who got slaughtered first in Sindh.

Then of course Afghanistan couple of centuries later. 

 

Carvaka was given a Maharshi  status in Sanatan Dharma, he was appropriated, I don't think his philisophy influenced more than what it is doing now for Commies, Atheists . Maybe in NW India, it declined due to B and J, but in the rest of the world, Islam trumped us. 

Edited September 23, 2024 by coffee_rules

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Imo decline had started way before... Its not a coincidence that Invaders started getting more and more successful post the advent of Jainism and Buddhism.  There was no concept of Charvaka ideology in Hinduism. It totally took away the tribalistic approach towards our religion and culture.

We are talking about people who repelled mighty Assyrians and Persian invasions & even held their own against Alexander.  The technological and military tactics back then were mostly on par with outsiders.

 

NW India was severely affected due to spread of Buddhism & had cascading effect on entire North India.  

Indo Greeks then Huns Kushans thereafter everyone made hay invading India.

Mihirkula persecuted Buddhists Monks in decent numbers & also tells us the scale it which it was prominent in NW India.  We all have heard stories of Pushyamitra Shunga's adventures in Taxila.

No wonder when Qasim came they were the ones who got slaughtered first in Sindh.

Then of course Afghanistan couple of centuries later. 

You know Jainism and Buddhism wouldn't have emerged if the caste system hadn't existed in our society. That said, in the 21st century, no religion aligns more closely with truth than the philosophical foundations laid by Buddha. We should be grateful for him.

[BacktoCricaddict]

For sure, Hinduism will be extinct In about 50,000 years. But by then, every religion and tradition and way of life that we have today will likely be extinct. The only things from today's world that will still be there?

 

Death

Taxes