Ravindra Jadeja v MS Dhoni as test batsmen

[tapandrun]

When Dhoni was playing test cricket it was fully established that wkt-keeper has to be a batter, teams would prefer batting skills over keeping skills.

Dhoni played mostly at 6/7 scoring nearly 3000 runs out of 5000 test runs. All his 100s came in Ind and 1 in Pak. 

So assuming Dhoni was playing mainly because he was considered better batter than Shah (who has been the best Ind wkt keeper in last 3 decades) 

boucher was averaging 30 when this batter and keeper role was still new, 

 

clearly wound nt rate him much as a test batter and even t20i as batter he has poor record.

 

He was v.good odi batter but the game was changing too fast and he atleast played 3 years more than he should have but that is case with most Ind star batters 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by tapandrun

[Majestic]

Adding more facts to the Dhoni vs Jadeja as pure batsman comparison,

 

Jadeja averages 29 with bat in SENA with 1 hundred and 5 fifties in 21 tests.

Dhoni averages 31 with bat in SENA with 13 fifties in 32 tests.

 

Again, Dhoni has better test average in SENA and also the career average .Yes, he doesn't have hundred but that's just another milestone. 13 fifties are not bad, every player's stats go for a toss in SENA.

 

Some posters are just having recency bias because in recent times, Jadeja has undoubtedly played some clutch knocks with bat.

Edited September 25, 2024 by Majestic

[tapandrun]

Dhoni some 1700 sena runs in 60 inngs (29 runs per innings), Jadeja some 900 sena runs in 36 innings (26 runs per innings)not much of a diff here

 

Not saying 1 was good an other was bad just on batting but there is not much of a diff and then factor in keeper is selected more on batting skills then keeping skills

Edited September 25, 2024 by tapandrun

[Majestic]

56 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Dhoni some 1700 sena runs in 60 inngs (29 runs per innings), Jadeja some 900 sena runs in 36 innings (26 runs per innings)not much of a diff here

 

Not saying 1 was good an other was bad just on batting but there is not much of a diff and then factor in keeper is selected more on batting skills then keeping skills

Purely on batting, Dhoni is still ahead of Jadeja. He has more runs and better average than Jadeja and also better average and more runs in SENA. 

 

Jadeja the current version is arguably better than Dhoni but if we take overall career, Dhoni still edges Jadeja in test batting.

 

Additionally, Dhoni is naturally a more aggressive batsman than Jadeja as Jadeja puts prize on his wicket a lot and hence Dhoni is likely to make an impact more than Jadeja who has boosted a lot of not outs without even scoring a 50.

[Tillu]

[sensible-indian]

20 hours ago, Majestic said:

As usual you are just being an Ashwin fan girl and can hardly have a strong discussion beyond that. You can't look beyond Ashwin,and a small performance is enough for you to make absolutely ridiculous claims such as Ashwin won this test and that test.

 

1. Performance in Adelaide was good but in a match losing cause.

 

2. In Melbourne, the standout performers were Rahane, Jadeja and Bumrah. Siraj and Ashwin were good too but there is nothing to write about if this is the performance we are discussing for Ashwin as the best in SENA lol. 

 

3. In Sydney, he failed with bowl, Australia were on verge of taking a huge lead at 200-2 in first inning and then came Jadeja and ran through Aus lineup, bowled them under 350 and brought India back in game. With bat, his contribution was 4th best of that inning and yeah, this is Ashwin's best performance in SENA with bat where he is the 4th best batter in that inning.

 

4. In Gabba, oh wait, he was injured and didn't played. Good job because Sundar and Shardul contributed arguably more than what Ashwin was capable of and won us that series.

 

All in all, not 1 bowling performance was standout. His best came in Adelaide which is remembered for 36-9 humiliation. His best batting performance in SENA came when his contribution was 4th best with the bat in tha particular inning for the team.

"Not one bowling performance was standout"

 

 

This is embarrassing at this point.

 

His best wasnt even Adelaide.

 

This is what happens when you play cricket on a spreadsheet. 

 

Agree about point 4 tho. Wont say capable of..but would use the word likely.

[vvvslaxman]

MSD"s ceiling was way higher compared to Jadeja for a long time. In that regard MSD has somewhat underachieved. Not saying he dind't have game. But he somehow did not play even one big innings overseas.  

[R!TTER]

8 hours ago, Majestic said:

Purely on batting, Dhoni is still ahead of Jadeja. He has more runs and better average than Jadeja and also better average and more runs in SENA. 

 

Jadeja the current version is arguably better than Dhoni but if we take overall career, Dhoni still edges Jadeja in test batting.

 

Additionally, Dhoni is naturally a more aggressive batsman than Jadeja as Jadeja puts prize on his wicket a lot and hence Dhoni is likely to make an impact more than Jadeja who has boosted a lot of not outs without even scoring a 50.

I'd argue Jadeja is the better test batter, but MS could win us more games with his batting! Rajkot 2016, Sydney 2008—compare the scenarios, which were similar although MS had to bat more overs away from home. Conversely, the pitch in 2008 was IMO slightly better and Oz spin bowling worse than what Eng had in 2016, albeit away from their home in India. Basically Jadeja was able to draw the game with BRat; Kohli was the main act, but MS wasn't in 2008, and yes, I know he did it once in 2007 just 6 months ago. Jadeja has played more such defensive innings; MS didn't, especially away from home. If you want someone who can win your games, aggressive, especially in Asia, MS is the obvious better bet. Overall, as a player, Jadeja hands down! MS' keeping of pacers, especially outside Asia, was diabolical; he used to keep at least a couple of feet further back than necessary! Due to him, slips also stood way back than necessary; this was a recurring theme that is often forgotten when waxing lyrical of MS as being the best cap ever  

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

"Not one bowling performance was standout"

 

 

This is embarrassing at this point.

 

His best wasnt even Adelaide.

 

This is what happens when you play cricket on a spreadsheet. 

 

Agree about point 4 tho. Wont say capable of..but would use the word likely.

Do you know the meaning of standout? Or you want me to spoonfed that as well?

 

Stop embarassing yourself. That just didn't sounded like a "sensible" Indian. We already discussed the standout players for each test but you skipped that part deliberately 

Edited September 25, 2024 by Majestic

[tapandrun]

37 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

I'd argue Jadeja is the better test batter, but MS could win us more games with his batting! Rajkot 2016, Sydney 2008—compare the scenarios, which were similar although MS had to bat more overs away from home. Conversely, the pitch in 2008 was IMO slightly better and Oz spin bowling worse than what Eng had in 2016, albeit away from their home in India. Basically Jadeja was able to draw the game with BRat; Kohli was the main act, but MS wasn't in 2008, and yes, I know he did it once in 2007 just 6 months ago. Jadeja has played more such defensive innings; MS didn't, especially away from home. If you want someone who can win your games, aggressive, especially in Asia, MS is the obvious better bet. Overall, as a player, Jadeja hands down! MS' keeping of pacers, especially outside Asia, was diabolical; he used to keep at least a couple of feet further back than necessary! Due to him, slips also stood way back than necessary; this was a recurring theme that is often forgotten when waxing lyrical of MS as being the best cap ever  

Just on the stats and the records they are v.much the same batter (if some1 does not tell one is dhoni and other is jadeja), some would say Dhoni underachieved as a test batter and Jadeja overachieved.

Rest of the analysis will be splitting the hairs, one can nit pick one aspect and over analyze in favour of one of the player.

 

 

 

 

   

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Do you know the meaning of standout? Or you want me to spoonfed that as well?

 

Stop embarassing yourself. That just didn't sounded like a "sensible" Indian. We already discussed the standout players for each test but you skipped that part deliberately 

"Do you know the meaning of standout?"

 

Oh yes I do.

 

I am not sure you do.

 

"Or you want me to spoonfed that as well?"

 

Says a guy who calls Ashwin's best was in Adelaide. 

 

"Stop embarassing yourself."

 

Now you are just repeating me bhai.

 

"We already discussed the standout players for each test but you skipped that part deliberately"

 

If you mean the part where I said Ashwin was one of the guys in Sydney...yeah...In sydney.

 

If you mean the part where you wrote paras after paras and decided that Ashwin's bowling performance was nothing special and he was also one of the guys....then no. lol.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by sensible-indian

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Or the time Ashwin fought with Kohli and made hell in the dressing room gossip saying Kohli was obsessed about fielding standards as he sucked at fielding and cost a lot of games for India as Jadeja was selected along with him just for batting and fielding to cover for Ashwin even in SENA conditions while a lot better batsmen were waiting for their opportunity in the middle order and never got it.

Source?

Edited September 25, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

"Do you know the meaning of standout?"

 

Oh yes I do.

 

I am not sure you do.

 

"Or you want me to spoonfed that as well?"

 

Says a guy who calls Ashwin's best was in Adelaide. 

 

"Stop embarassing yourself."

 

Now you are just repeating me bhai.

 

"We already discussed the standout players for each test but you skipped that part deliberately"

 

If you mean the part where I said Ashwin was one of the guys in Sydney...yeah...In sydney.

 

If you mean the part where you wrote paras after paras and decided that Ashwin's bowling performance was nothing special and he was also one of the guys....then no. lol.

 

 

You are arguing with a guy who believes Imran Khan is not just the greatest fast bowler, but the greatest cricketer of the past 150 years. 

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

"Do you know the meaning of standout?"

 

Oh yes I do.

 

I am not sure you do.

 

"Or you want me to spoonfed that as well?"

 

Says a guy who calls Ashwin's best was in Adelaide. 

 

"Stop embarassing yourself."

 

Now you are just repeating me bhai.

 

"We already discussed the standout players for each test but you skipped that part deliberately"

 

If you mean the part where I said Ashwin was one of the guys in Sydney...yeah...In sydney.

 

If you mean the part where you wrote paras after paras and decided that Ashwin's bowling performance was nothing special and he was also one of the guys....then no. lol.

 

 

What no? Explain. And what was Ashwin's best performance? Melbourne? The test which was won by standout performances of Rahane, Jadeja and Bumrah? Take that lol again because you are struggling to defend yourself.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

You are arguing with a guy who believes Imran Khan is not just the greatest fast bowler, but the greatest cricketer of the past 150 years. 

When did I said that? I know you are having hard time dealing with real facts that I am putting one by one but that doesn't mean you lose the track of discussion and start making false claims.

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, Majestic said:

When did I said that? I know you are having hard time dealing with real facts that I am putting one by one but that doesn't mean you lose the track of discussion and start making false claims.

On 8/10/2024 at 11:13 AM, Majestic said:

I mean they both average about same. Difference in wickets tally is due to Imran becoming a proper batsman in last 15 tests. However, the most noticeable difference is the pitches and weather conditions.

 

Imran bowled in hot and humid conditions of Pakistan where pitches are flat and won't assist spinners much either.

 

Hadlee bowled in cool weather conditions of New Zealand and occasionally pitches would be grassy and suitable for swing bowling.

 

Shouldn't Imran be rated as the greatest bowler of all-time for this reason and the greatest cricketer in 150 years of cricket history, especially having won the World Cup as captain and regarded as a great captain too?

 

I mean look at Jadeja and Ashwin, they got the most favoured conditions possible but still they couldn't reach the stats and height of Imran Khan.

That's a rhetorical question, don't deny. 

 

Great thread btw

 

[Gollum]

8 minutes ago, Majestic said:

When did I said that? I know you are having hard time dealing with real facts that I am putting one by one but that doesn't mean you lose the track of discussion and start making false claims.

Don't think too highly of yourself. 

[sensible-indian]

19 minutes ago, Majestic said:

What no? Explain. And what was Ashwin's best performance? Melbourne? The test which was won by standout performances of Rahane, Jadeja and Bumrah? Take that lol again because you are struggling to defend yourself.

The recent Bangladesh test was won cos...

 

Jaddu scored 86

Pant 100

Gill 100

Bumrah picked 4 wickets in the first innings

 

Lame ass Ashwin couldn't even pick up a single wicket in the first innings.

 

Took a 5fer in second innings but Jaddu got a 3fer too. Plus Bangladesh had practically given up by that time.

 

Yes he scored 100 but Jaddu did just as well.

 

He was just one among the many performers.

 

Not a standout performance. Stupid experts gave him the MOM. It should have been shared among 4 other players.

 

If you doubt it, reach out to me and I will spoonfeed you.

 

#MajesticLogic

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

You are arguing with a guy who believes Imran Khan is not just the greatest fast bowler, but the greatest cricketer of the past 150 years. 

Im having fun playing with him hehe

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Im having fun playing with him hehe

Me too old for these games